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Acceptable number of War Decs....
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#21 - 2016-11-30 16:33:10 UTC
Kojee wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
for over half a year now



HOOOOLY ****. HALF A YEARAttentionQuestionAttentionQuestionAttentionQuestion

I haven't really had an issue since 2003. It's always just been part of the game to me. Adapt or die. It seems like some of the people talking here are mostly dying. Pirate



I'd draw the line when they implemented crime watch. On the one hand those changes did some cool and good things for the game. On the other hand HS merc kind of got wonked and morphed from a pvp business to a player farming community.

I don't think anyone is dying. It's your right and choice to run around in circles all "Weeeeee I just got a stick in my eye" It's our choice to try and advance the game in fun and interesting ways.

Just like we don't all agree on how to fix it, we don't all have to agree it's broken.

Personally - I adapted by moving to WH space and enjoyed the game for another half decade or so. The 'citadels get space magic' has kind of sucked the life out of my will to play and my log ins are fewer and for shorter durations. THAT is a different story though. Watch list hasn't helped much either. If CCP keeps intervening on behalf of a VERY few hundred pampered super owners at the expense of the rest of the players - I'll probably pursue my dream of running a plant nursery and leave Eve in the rear view mirror with nary a tear. I'm too old to waste time on a dull game that has lost (intentionally thrown away) its edge.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#22 - 2016-11-30 21:40:40 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Re: escalating wardec fees, I favor them in principle. Deccing smaller corps should cost less than deccing larger ones (you are paying for less after all), and adding your first wardec should cost less than adding your twentieth (bureaucracy ain't cheap).

In practice however, every method of implementing these scaling fees that I've seen or thought of is subject to abuse that would make legitimate wardeccing prohibitively expensive very quickly. People would just pay to keep alt corp wardecs going, fill their ranks with dummy alts to inflate corp size, etc.

Wardec mechanics could use some love, but I don't think that scaling wardec fees is the answer.



I'm not seeing DecShield as a problem. The cost escalation would only be applied to war decs / assists that you initiate. If you're the 300th corp/alliance to drop a dec on NorthernCoalition - that matters not. Piling on is fine - it would just be that you can't pile on everyone at the same time.

As far as alliance bombing. I would keep decs active on corps fleeing alliance for the war duration, but not count it against the aggressor. Here's the line of logic behind it:

AceMercServices dec's UltimateNullConglomerate (12,000 members and 69 corps). AMS has 2 weeks to slaughter them. AMS paid off CONCORD to shoot the members of that alliance. That stands for the dec period if the corp stays in the alliance or if they leave. Think of the war declaration as being against 70 entities - UNC as a whole and the 69 corps. As the war progresses, leaving UNC isn't a get out of jail free card - you can separate from the alliance, but you can't separate from CONCORD sanction war activities. Instead of seeing UNC as 1 entity - it would see it as 70 entities. On the other hand, joining UNC during an active war dec would add you to both the UNC roster and as entity 71 for the duration of the war. The net effect would be that leaving an alliance under war dec doesn't change anything as far as the war dec goes.

It would be a code change as to how war decs are seen by the game, not just a roll back to the old broken ways. There would be more, such as a corp joining an alliance while under war dec. That would have to be looked at carefully - it would be funny if (as a war dec infected corp) you could join/drop alliance memberships and spread the joy, but would have to be coded in some way as to not allow 'spread the joy' abuse.

Many of us know this is a complex issue that requires multiple changes on several mechanics fronts. Escallating dec fees would only be part of the package. Only an idiot would assume 1 simple change would fix such a complex problem. So, for those that wear those types of shoes, if you read closely my original post on this says I am in favor of escalating dec fees. What it does not say is that changing ONLY this facet will cure the mechanics quagmire that HS warfare is currently in.

At the end of the day I'm more interested that HS warfare is fun, challenging and continuously pulls more folks into the PVP aspect of the game and less interested in the actual way we get from the current mind numbing player farming mass dec garbage to that ideal. I just want HS warfare to be fun again.

What do you suggest if you wish to target a single player corp hopping every day or 2? I don't see why you would scale wars based on how many outgoing wars you have. Seem's like a deliberate attempt to kill off mass wardecs which would likely result in the current state of affairs or worse wind up with literally one group declaring wars and everybody joining it to pool resources to afford the outgoing wars. Higher costs are in no way the answer to fixing this much like adding more isk to the ratting in nullsec didn't see people swarm out to nullsec and nerfing wh ratting and rebuffing it didn't drive people from or to wormhole space en masse. You either like an aspect of the game or you don't and no ammount of carrot or stick will force people into a style of play they hate.

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#23 - 2016-12-01 00:11:04 UTC
War mechanic is fine from where I sit. It cost lots to dec many groups as it should do. It cost more to dec bigger groups as it should do. People don't have to be at war so there is npc corps. Mercs who hunt or camp area do so out of choice and the strategy is up to them. If some one does not like the way they do it dec them. If people don't know how to defend themselves learn or die. This is eve. Mercs are mercs they are happy to shoot stuff and get paid to do it.

What actually needs fixing is how you can gank a freighter for a few 100mil. That's what's wrong not war mechanics. We pay billions for our wars.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#24 - 2016-12-01 00:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Noragen Neirfallas
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
War mechanic is fine from where I sit. It cost lots to dec many groups as it should do. It cost more to dec bigger groups as it should do. People don't have to be at war so there is npc corps. Mercs who hunt or camp area do so out of choice and the strategy is up to them. If some one does not like the way they do it dec them. If people don't know how to defend themselves learn or die. This is eve. Mercs are mercs they are happy to shoot stuff and get paid to do it.

What actually needs fixing is how you can gank a freighter for a few 100mil. That's what's wrong not war mechanics. We pay billions for our wars.

I repectfully disagree on a few points. I don't think it is fine the way it is. There seems to be very little incentive for any group with PvE activities going on in their corp to ever declare a war. Mixed groups have no reason to fight each other over a limited resource other than POCO's wich honestly are a bit of a joke. I would like to see a reason other than blow **** up that would be engaging for a much larger section of the player base that could even be a PvE reason. Just some sort of reason 2 groups who wouldn't normally declare a war could.

Also assist system and surrender system is garbage. Surrender system needs more options and the assist system could also use a shake up in both expense (lets face it less people would pile on if it cost the same as declaring a war) and options.

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#25 - 2016-12-01 06:27:36 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
War mechanic is fine from where I sit. It cost lots to dec many groups as it should do. It cost more to dec bigger groups as it should do. People don't have to be at war so there is npc corps. Mercs who hunt or camp area do so out of choice and the strategy is up to them. If some one does not like the way they do it dec them. If people don't know how to defend themselves learn or die. This is eve. Mercs are mercs they are happy to shoot stuff and get paid to do it.

What actually needs fixing is how you can gank a freighter for a few 100mil. That's what's wrong not war mechanics. We pay billions for our wars.

I repectfully disagree on a few points. I don't think it is fine the way it is. There seems to be very little incentive for any group with PvE activities going on in their corp to ever declare a war. Mixed groups have no reason to fight each other over a limited resource other than POCO's wich honestly are a bit of a joke. I would like to see a reason other than blow **** up that would be engaging for a much larger section of the player base that could even be a PvE reason. Just some sort of reason 2 groups who wouldn't normally declare a war could.

Also assist system and surrender system is garbage. Surrender system needs more options and the assist system could also use a shake up in both expense (lets face it less people would pile on if it cost the same as declaring a war) and options.

The surrender system could have more depth but in reality this does happen. It's just more in player hands to discuss terms.

I'm loving citadels and these new industrial complex as we are getting contracts daily. There does seem to be more war activity.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#26 - 2016-12-01 08:39:00 UTC
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
War mechanic is fine from where I sit. It cost lots to dec many groups as it should do. It cost more to dec bigger groups as it should do. People don't have to be at war so there is npc corps. Mercs who hunt or camp area do so out of choice and the strategy is up to them. If some one does not like the way they do it dec them. If people don't know how to defend themselves learn or die. This is eve. Mercs are mercs they are happy to shoot stuff and get paid to do it.

What actually needs fixing is how you can gank a freighter for a few 100mil. That's what's wrong not war mechanics. We pay billions for our wars.

I repectfully disagree on a few points. I don't think it is fine the way it is. There seems to be very little incentive for any group with PvE activities going on in their corp to ever declare a war. Mixed groups have no reason to fight each other over a limited resource other than POCO's wich honestly are a bit of a joke. I would like to see a reason other than blow **** up that would be engaging for a much larger section of the player base that could even be a PvE reason. Just some sort of reason 2 groups who wouldn't normally declare a war could.

Also assist system and surrender system is garbage. Surrender system needs more options and the assist system could also use a shake up in both expense (lets face it less people would pile on if it cost the same as declaring a war) and options.

The surrender system could have more depth but in reality this does happen. It's just more in player hands to discuss terms.

I'm loving citadels and these new industrial complex as we are getting contracts daily. There does seem to be more war activity.

What about the current assist system? I honestly think its the most in need of looking at of all the war mechanics

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#27 - 2016-12-01 09:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Natural CloneKiller
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
War mechanic is fine from where I sit. It cost lots to dec many groups as it should do. It cost more to dec bigger groups as it should do. People don't have to be at war so there is npc corps. Mercs who hunt or camp area do so out of choice and the strategy is up to them. If some one does not like the way they do it dec them. If people don't know how to defend themselves learn or die. This is eve. Mercs are mercs they are happy to shoot stuff and get paid to do it.

What actually needs fixing is how you can gank a freighter for a few 100mil. That's what's wrong not war mechanics. We pay billions for our wars.

I repectfully disagree on a few points. I don't think it is fine the way it is. There seems to be very little incentive for any group with PvE activities going on in their corp to ever declare a war. Mixed groups have no reason to fight each other over a limited resource other than POCO's wich honestly are a bit of a joke. I would like to see a reason other than blow **** up that would be engaging for a much larger section of the player base that could even be a PvE reason. Just some sort of reason 2 groups who wouldn't normally declare a war could.

Also assist system and surrender system is garbage. Surrender system needs more options and the assist system could also use a shake up in both expense (lets face it less people would pile on if it cost the same as declaring a war) and options.

The surrender system could have more depth but in reality this does happen. It's just more in player hands to discuss terms.

I'm loving citadels and these new industrial complex as we are getting contracts daily. There does seem to be more war activity.

What about the current assist system? I honestly think its the most in need of looking at of all the war mechanics

Its ok. It's not broken but not perfect. We sometimes get paid to assist on wars or assist clients and that makes them feel warm and fuzzy. It good the assist is not straight away and there is a period of time before war starts. It is wrong that you cannot assist if there is a pending dec but this was highlighted by Rhivre on the imperium news. Hopefully ccp picked up on this.

Tbh I don't know the answer here.

We were thinking of having a policy of assisting for free alpha clone corps. The game does not allow for detailed assist strategy and optionality but player convo does.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#28 - 2016-12-01 12:08:05 UTC
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
War mechanic is fine from where I sit. It cost lots to dec many groups as it should do. It cost more to dec bigger groups as it should do. People don't have to be at war so there is npc corps. Mercs who hunt or camp area do so out of choice and the strategy is up to them. If some one does not like the way they do it dec them. If people don't know how to defend themselves learn or die. This is eve. Mercs are mercs they are happy to shoot stuff and get paid to do it.

What actually needs fixing is how you can gank a freighter for a few 100mil. That's what's wrong not war mechanics. We pay billions for our wars.

I repectfully disagree on a few points. I don't think it is fine the way it is. There seems to be very little incentive for any group with PvE activities going on in their corp to ever declare a war. Mixed groups have no reason to fight each other over a limited resource other than POCO's wich honestly are a bit of a joke. I would like to see a reason other than blow **** up that would be engaging for a much larger section of the player base that could even be a PvE reason. Just some sort of reason 2 groups who wouldn't normally declare a war could.

Also assist system and surrender system is garbage. Surrender system needs more options and the assist system could also use a shake up in both expense (lets face it less people would pile on if it cost the same as declaring a war) and options.

The surrender system could have more depth but in reality this does happen. It's just more in player hands to discuss terms.

I'm loving citadels and these new industrial complex as we are getting contracts daily. There does seem to be more war activity.

What about the current assist system? I honestly think its the most in need of looking at of all the war mechanics

Its ok. It's not broken but not perfect. We sometimes get paid to assist on wars or assist clients and that makes them feel warm and fuzzy. It good the assist is not straight away and there is a period of time before war starts. It is wrong that you cannot assist if there is a pending dec but this was highlighted by Rhivre on the imperium news. Hopefully ccp picked up on this.

Tbh I don't know the answer here.

We were thinking of having a policy of assisting for free alpha clone corps. The game does not allow for detailed assist strategy and optionality but player convo does.

I think assisting should cost the person offering the assist much like declaring a war. no more or less and you should be able to assist both sides of a dec instead of having to declare 5 individual wars. I mean if you wanna screw with mechanics you can declare the wars in weird ways cause this is eve after all but I mean if 4-5 groups wanted to gang up on one it should be able to be solved through one war. The way it is it discourages people declaring wars unless that's all they want to do. From what I can tell casual decs over ice belts have mostly gone away between like groups because it's so east to get free or cheap defender assists.

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Clandestiny
Doomheim
#29 - 2016-12-01 12:13:51 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:


Simple questions to the Mercs of New Eden...

A question in general discussion had me wondering about war decs and if there was a limit, what that limit should be?

Zero (0).

❤╫╟╖A╥╖K❤╙╢OU❤

🎯→🚀
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#30 - 2016-12-01 14:54:12 UTC
Nor, you bring up a good point that would need to be addressed. It's a sticky one. Corp hopping. On one hand in this game of non consensual pvp there does need to be some sort of out for folks that just aren't interested in pvp. It needs to be there because just like some folks don't want to PVP, some folks in the game are D***S and would just torture players out of the game. There only needs to be 1 D**k subbed for 10 years to ruin the game for a lot of folks and drive them from the game. On the other hand corp hopping sux and this is a game of non consensual PVP.

So which is it?

1 - Eve in hard mode - no way to avoid HS PVP
2 - Eve in sux mode - easy to avoid HS PVP (yeah yeah - my opinion Smile)

My opinion, views and ideas have been all over the board on this over the past 10 years. Currently I'm of the view that if a dude doesn't want to fight - cut you losses and go find someone else who does. The only game play this infringes upon is the chumps that log in to farm non combat players. Currently I don't care if those player farmers get frustrated and leave the game. It all goes back to my opinion that the current player farming meta IS NOT good for the game. I think it takes more people out of the game than it brings into the pvp fold. I don't have or need numbers. I'm basing that on being a human being for more years than I'd like to mention. Folks just don't like getting kicked in the junk with little to no reasonable recourse (which is what the mass dec meta enables).

The best way to get and keep players in this or any game is to make it fun, interesting and challenging. The whole alpha/omega clone thing is a gimmick and if the game isn't fun, interesting and challenging - folks just aren't going to stay with it.

I totally agree there is no incentive for PVE corps to declare war. I've said it before - the free assist thing is a multiplier for the mass dec player farming meta. Try something. Roll up a noob alt, make a corp and dec anyone. Your inbox gets flooded with offers to free assist, 5 mil assist, 20 mil assist and so on. The only way 2 corps can currently settle their differences on a personal level is if they are both full to the brim with e-honour and agree to no 3rd party stuff AND then e-honour that agreement. That's probably asking too much of 2 groups that are internet spaceships mad enough to drop their mining lasers and pick up some blasters. Again, assisting someone should count as an aggressive act and up your tally and cost to join in. Free assist needs to go and consecutive decs/assists should cost more. Until that happens - mass dec player farming is the only smart play for HS PVP groups.
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