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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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esport suggestion
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sisterofeve6
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-11-15 17:35:33 UTC  |  Edited by: sisterofeve6
I am not good at presentations so i apologize in advance for the messy thread. I just wanted to advocate the fact that esport doesn't have to come in the form of a pvp mechanic, it can be something as simple as a UI (like the dojo experiment).

My suggestion is for ccp to create a new "tournament UI" that is accessible to all capsuleers (both on tranquility and thunderdome), the UI has the same look and feel with just a couple differences depending on what server you are on.

I think the problem is you can't make the average eve player feel excited about esports without first creating a little preview experience of what it will be like competing on a big stage. This way you can practice “for the real thing” just by casually playing on tranquility with your friends.

There are so many “tournament ideas” floating around, so instead of making people uncomfortable with yet another “tournament idea” I figured I will suggest a simple “tournament UI”. Here is my idea:
* Open the “fleet window”
* Click on “fleet finder” tab.
* Click on “my advert”
* Click on “create advert”
* Type in Fleet Name
* Set who can see your “fleet advert” (either visible to everyone in the game, just region, just solar system, just a corp/alliance, or just based on standing).
* How many people currently in your fleet (Member Count) will be displayed in the advert by default, but can be hidden.
* How many “points” you are fielding will be displayed in the advert (this cannot be hidden).
* The estimated “cost” of your entire fleet will be displayed in the advert (this cannot be hidden).
* Everyone in eve will see your fleet advert, but the “Fleet Boss” remains anonymous by default (his nickname and his current location will be hidden unless he wants to reveal it).

Example scenario on Tranquility:
* while on a pvp roam with your buddies on tranquility,
* you jump into a new system and you see an enemy fleet,
* you can then open up the fleet window to check if they have a fleet advert up (to see if they have any interest in a quick fight, however you are aware that this could be a trap and a false invitation to have a fair fight).
* After some scouting, you can either engage the opponent right away or if you want to be extra careful that he doesnt cheat and brings backup from the nearby system you can ask them in local that you want to fight at a complex (because cyno’s cannot be used inside complexes).
* the “tournament UI” on tranquility does not guarantee that fair play will happen every time, but thats the whole point. You will still have to take chances, learn to trust FC’s, and learn to read a situation correctly.
* a wise FC would send a scout to check on the opposing team to see that everything seems to match their advert, you can easily count their ships and see if it matches the amount of “points” that their fleet advert claims.
* (alternatively cyno’s add an X amount of “points” to your fleet advert, and therefore easily spotted).

Example scenario on Thunderdome:
* you are allowed a maximum amount of “points”.
* you are allowed a maximum amount of “cost” of fleet.
* you are allowed a maximum amount of players.
* The pick and ban will be handled through a special tab in the “fleet window” (this special tab will not be available for tranquility players).
* Since tournament organizers prefer to be able to see the “pick and bans phase” happening live (so they can comment on it) the “fleet window” will have a a special tab added to it, the tab shows a live feed of “list of ships” of all the members in the fleet (like the Fleet Composition window we have today), including their current fittings and player names. The list automatically refreshes whenever somebody makes changes to the “fittings” or “ship” so that the tournament admins dont have to click refresh.
* In order for the tournament admins to be able to see this special tab that shows “list of ships”, they would have to be invited by the FC to join the fleet. Alternatively the FC can choose who to broadcast his “list of ships” to (so that only the tournament admins can see it, not the enemy).
* depending on tournament organizers, you will have to either pick “prefitted ships” (shoutouts to the eve_nt guys) or in other cases you can fit whatever you want just as long as it doesn’t exceed the maximum “cost” of fleet.
* The “tournament UI” allows you to ban as many ships as you want (but the tournament organizers can tell the participants to only ban 2-3 ships).
* It is up to the contestants to look up what their opponent has banned and make proper adjustments in their own fleet. Responsibility is on the contestants to be thorough in their preparations.
* if you are a tournament organizer, and you want to limit the type of “equipment” and “ships” the teams are allowed to bring: take complete control over a station and set the prices of “ships” and “equipment”. For example, you can make tech1 stuff cost 1 isk, tech2 stuff cost 2 isk. That way it will be up to the teams to decide if they think its worth to field tech2 stuff or not). However, future tournaments can benefit greatly from having more expensive stuff on sale. Almost like the game CS:GO where each win gives your team extra money to spend on weapons, it would enable pilots to upgrade their ships with tech2 or faction modules (this is assuming the tournament allows you to increase the maximum amount of “cost” of fleet with each victory).
* if there is ever any “ship” or “equipment” that you really dont want to have in the tournament, simply dont sell it in the station.

To summorize, tournament UI’s dont require much commitment or development effort to create, and they can easily get scrapped for the sake of transitioning to a better tournament UI or tournament pvp mechanic in the future.
Hope you enjoyed my scrappy presentation, my wish is to spark a discussion among fellow esport enthusiasts on where esport is heading.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#2 - 2016-11-15 18:25:12 UTC
Here's a few problems.

Once CCP creates an official way to organize e-sports, then that will be the ONLY acceptable way to organize such things in EvE. This takes away from player creativity. That's something that I'm very much against.

What tools does CCP need to give that don't already exist or cannot be made using either 3rd party (but allowed) aps, a separate but private site, or good ol' pen and paper and a bit of time?

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
sisterofeve6
Doomheim
#3 - 2016-11-15 18:33:07 UTC
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
Here's a few problems.

Once CCP creates an official way to organize e-sports, then that will be the ONLY acceptable way to organize such things in EvE. This takes away from player creativity. That's something that I'm very much against.

What tools does CCP need to give that don't already exist or cannot be made using either 3rd party (but allowed) aps, a separate but private site, or good ol' pen and paper and a bit of time?

--Gadget



I agree that it will take away opportunities for others to obsess about "how to do their own little tourney" but i think people are pretty resiliant, even in matters of obsessing about tourneys, they will still find ways to obsess even in the new system lol :P
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-11-15 18:39:20 UTC
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
Here's a few problems.

Once CCP creates an official way to organize e-sports, then that will be the ONLY acceptable way to organize such things in EvE. This takes away from player creativity. That's something that I'm very much against.

What tools does CCP need to give that don't already exist or cannot be made using either 3rd party (but allowed) aps, a separate but private site, or good ol' pen and paper and a bit of time?

--Gadget



It's also probably all a waste of effort because good luck marketing an e-sport out of a game which pride itself in letting unfair play as generated by the players themselves. The game popular for e-sports are those with strict rules. No 3rd party or out numbering for example. This is against the core of the game and if the dojo idea by one of the ex dev is something to go by, then the community does not want strict fair fights anyway.
sisterofeve6
Doomheim
#5 - 2016-11-30 00:01:31 UTC
also "tournament UI's" could initially be external 3rd party apps in the beginning, like EFT app is now an in-game thing instead of people having to download such an app.

Not sure if what im suggesting is technically possible though, I dont know what would be required to get the necessary information into an external app such as this, maybe ccp would need to create a new kind of API for this particular app. Or maybe such an app already exists?

i do like the idea of giving other 3rd party "engineers" a chance to play around with this project and innovate the heck out of it.

anyway, just a thought, continue your evesport free day:)
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#6 - 2016-11-30 23:52:10 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
The real problem here:

Every video game does not need to be an esports platform. Especially a game like EVE that has as its central design component a living permanent economy and social simulation.

This is like SOE's ridiculous experiment to add esports components to Planetside 2, a game that wasn't designed around "even match" based play or "tournament rankings" in the first place and has suffered greatly from decisions like the alerts systems to pull players away from the central mechanic of the game's tactical map and resource mechanics being important and toward individual arbitrarily selected "matches" and "score" being important.

Developers attempting to cash in on the esports craze are missing something very important: Not every game is a good esports platform, and not every game should be designed so that it is.

If you're already designing a competitive, "fair" match-based game, then it makes sense to put some effort in to enabling esports tools. However, EVE, like other persistant sim style games, is not a good match for that platform, and further it doesn't need to be.

EVE's Alliance tournament system is really the only Esports the game needs specifically because it is directly related to the economic and social fabric of EVE. AT participants are encouraged to first be good at EVE as a whole, which is far more than piloting ships, and includes economic skills to acquire AT ready fits and in many cases expensive limited edition ships. The rewards, similarly, are also directly related to EVE as a whole. Single issue limited edition ships that provide a unique economic or tactical tool only avaliable to those that win them.

EVE is not well designed for "fair fights" at the level of a standard esports platform, and it doesn't need to be. just like minecraft doesn't need an esports platform, or don't starve, or any other number of "world simulation" style games.
sisterofeve6
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-12-01 02:00:12 UTC  |  Edited by: sisterofeve6
PopeUrban wrote:
The real problem here:

Every video game does not need to be an esports platform. Especially a game like EVE that has as its central design component a living permanent economy and social simulation.

This is like SOE's ridiculous experiment to add esports components to Planetside 2, a game that wasn't designed around "even match" based play or "tournament rankings" in the first place and has suffered greatly from decisions like the alerts systems to pull players away from the central mechanic of the game's tactical map and resource mechanics being important and toward individual arbitrarily selected "matches" and "score" being important.

Developers attempting to cash in on the esports craze are missing something very important: Not every game is a good esports platform, and not every game should be designed so that it is.

If you're already designing a competitive, "fair" match-based game, then it makes sense to put some effort in to enabling esports tools. However, EVE, like other persistant sim style games, is not a good match for that platform, and further it doesn't need to be.

EVE's Alliance tournament system is really the only Esports the game needs specifically because it is directly related to the economic and social fabric of EVE. AT participants are encouraged to first be good at EVE as a whole, which is far more than piloting ships, and includes economic skills to acquire AT ready fits and in many cases expensive limited edition ships. The rewards, similarly, are also directly related to EVE as a whole. Single issue limited edition ships that provide a unique economic or tactical tool only avaliable to those that win them.

EVE is not well designed for "fair fights" at the level of a standard esports platform, and it doesn't need to be. just like minecraft doesn't need an esports platform, or don't starve, or any other number of "world simulation" style games.


I like what you said that AT participants are encouraged to be good at EVE as a whole, you are totally right about that, i think it will be a rewarding journey to any pro gamer that decides to walk down that pathway, time consuming but worthwhile.