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CCP - I have a really cool idea to fix factional industrial ships

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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#21 - 2016-11-25 22:00:11 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:


They should not be able to out-compete regular industrials like that.


Now you're starting to sound like you've never flown an industrial in your entire career. Ether that or you've not flown Gallente ones. Open the ship tree and check it out for yourself. The numbers are all there.

True. I have long since moved past Tech 1 industrials and almost exclusively use Blockade Runners and Orcas.

But my point still stands; those ships should not be so good that you will not consider using a "normal" industrial ship.

How did you Veterans start?
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#22 - 2016-11-26 01:10:35 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:


Does it restrict you in your choices? Yes, it does. Well, that actually is a good thing. Decisions should matter.


Yes decisions SHOULD matter, and not it isn't restricting players in their choises. It is making their choices for them.... Alpha's can either choose to go Gallente or they can choose to get ****** over. Do you call that a choice? Because I don't.

Hyperbole much?

You are not being "****** over" because you lack access to 1 to 3 "specialist ships" that were literally made for giggles.
You can do PI, or haul ore, or move ammo in any of the other industrial ships.

Mind you, you will not do it as well as any of those specialist ships... but you can still do it!


No you cant. You can't haul any viable amount of commodity in a regular cargo ship. Of all the industrials the Miasmos and Kryos are by far the two I use most. As they can carry about 40,000 m3 or 50,000 m3 of commodity. Contrast this with a Mammoth, Iteron V, or any of the other large industrials. Even with a MAXIMUM CARGO EXPANDER FIT you will only get 16,000 m3. This is rubbish comparted to what a Miasmos, Kryos, or Epithal can carry.

What do you think players did before those special cargo holds were introduced? Tiericide for the haulers was maybe 3 years ago. EVE got online in 2003.

.

Remove standings and insurance.
Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#23 - 2016-11-26 01:32:31 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:

What do you think players did before those special cargo holds were introduced? Tiericide for the haulers was maybe 3 years ago. EVE got online in 2003.

.



If by tiericide you mean putting an expansion container inside another expansion container on repeat to create a flying Tardis, that couldn't happen here for two reasons. Firstly CCP altered the properties of those containers so that one couldn't be put inside another. Secondly, the proposed containers would be limited to a specific commodity type (ore, mineral, planetary, and charges) and freight containers are included in none of these categories.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#24 - 2016-11-26 10:27:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:


Does it restrict you in your choices? Yes, it does. Well, that actually is a good thing. Decisions should matter.


Yes decisions SHOULD matter, and not it isn't restricting players in their choises. It is making their choices for them.... Alpha's can either choose to go Gallente or they can choose to get ****** over. Do you call that a choice? Because I don't.

Hyperbole much?

You are not being "****** over" because you lack access to 1 to 3 "specialist ships" that were literally made for giggles.
You can do PI, or haul ore, or move ammo in any of the other industrial ships.

Mind you, you will not do it as well as any of those specialist ships... but you can still do it!


No you cant. You can't haul any viable amount of commodity in a regular cargo ship. Of all the industrials the Miasmos and Kryos are by far the two I use most. As they can carry about 40,000 m3 or 50,000 m3 of commodity. Contrast this with a Mammoth, Iteron V, or any of the other large industrials. Even with a MAXIMUM CARGO EXPANDER FIT you will only get 16,000 m3. This is rubbish comparted to what a Miasmos, Kryos, or Epithal can carry.

What do you think players did before those special cargo holds were introduced?

Used a ~50k cargohold Iteron Mark V?

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-11-28 19:18:32 UTC
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
I hate tiericide.



Yes, things were much better back when the only valid reason to use a good chunk of the ships in the game was brain damage.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#26 - 2016-11-28 19:37:56 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
ShahFluffers wrote:
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
No you cant. You can't haul any viable amount of commodity in a regular cargo ship. Of all the industrials the Miasmos and Kryos are by far the two I use most. As they can carry about 40,000 m3 or 50,000 m3 of commodity. Contrast this with a Mammoth, Iteron V, or any of the other large industrials. Even with a MAXIMUM CARGO EXPANDER FIT you will only get 16,000 m3. This is rubbish comparted to what a Miasmos, Kryos, or Epithal can carry.

Hmmm... it sounds like those ships need to be beaten with a nerfbat.

They should not be able to out-compete regular industrials like that.



If it helps, his numbers are quite bullshit, as he ignored rigs, or is confusing the cargo versions with the tanky versions, or has otherwise managed to be completely incorrect by some novel means that hasn't yet occurred to me.

A cargo-fit Iteron tops out at 37K, a Bestower at 39 without any "extraordinary means" (t2 rigs or faction cargo expanders).

Even an Alpha will hit low-mid 30s.

The Epithal is quite good for in-system runs (POS or station to POCO and back). Outside of that, I rarely use it. Hardly relevant for Alphas, though.

The Kryos is... pretty much a toy. Its tank is wildly inadequate for hauling high ends and its cargo is equally inadequate for Tritanium.


The Miasmos can fit a useful amount of compressed ore, but I'd generally advise against it. The high value:m3 of compressed ores means it rapidly turns into a very suicide-able ship.

Much ado about nothing, really.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2016-11-29 01:24:21 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

But my point still stands; those ships should not be so good that you will not consider using a "normal" industrial ship.

They're not. In fact, they have cargoholds I would never dare to fill because the value you can put in there is not proportionate to the tank.

Check out the Hoarder and you'll see why I never ever fly it, despite it being my first industrial (before the change), despite I still love the ship model ... it's a deathtrap.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#28 - 2016-11-29 04:30:16 UTC
I think special cargo holds should be deleted.

-The miasmos encroached on the orca too much. The orca needed a massive ore hold buff just because the miasmos existed. Now its not so bad i guess...
-The kryos, whilst risky to fill, still goes much faster than a proper hauler.
-The epithal is so useful its foolish to not use them.
-The hoarder is kinda ok because it only ruins the game when hauling cap charges.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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