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Add a minimal range to ECM!
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Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#21 - 2016-11-28 20:39:04 UTC
So lets play devil's advocate. Poof....there is a 24km deadzone to not break tackle. Be nice, max range of unbursted max skill point.


this would come at cost. jam pilots spend some time getting the SP to max things like range. So....you have your 24 km deadzone. That means logically any range determinations would begin at 24.1 kms. As currently skills start at 0 km (the ship being the starting point) . You just gave falcon 24 km's more of range it didn't need. As, well, ccp reduced range long ago (the og because of falcon days ECM was longer range).

this is why CCP does not balance heavily factoring on 1v1. Things tend to not scale well when it reaches fleet/roam level. YOu have your not breaking tackle falcon. And fleets now have a falcons uber long range, again. Problem is in a fleet and if falcons do this right and fc coordinates well....nothing will be within 24 km's of that falcon (or other jam boat) anyway. free 24 km range bonus...not a bad thing all in all.

to fix your 1v1 problem, fleet based stuff gets complicated as falcons are waaaay the hell out more than they can be now. Which was the reason for the range nerf in the first place.


W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#22 - 2016-11-28 20:50:38 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
So lets play devil's advocate. Poof....there is a 24km deadzone to not break tackle. Be nice, max range of unbursted max skill point.


this would come at cost. jam pilots spend some time getting the SP to max things like range. So....you have your 24 km deadzone. That means logically any range determinations would begin at 24.1 kms. As currently skills start at 0 km (the ship being the starting point) . You just gave falcon 24 km's more of range it didn't need. As, well, ccp reduced range long ago (the og because of falcon days ECM was longer range).

this is why CCP does not balance heavily factoring on 1v1. Things tend to not scale well when it reaches fleet/roam level. YOu have your not breaking tackle falcon. And fleets now have a falcons uber long range, again. Problem is in a fleet and if falcons do this right and fc coordinates well....nothing will be within 24 km's of that falcon (or other jam boat) anyway. free 24 km range bonus...not a bad thing all in all.

to fix your 1v1 problem, fleet based stuff gets complicated as falcons are waaaay the hell out more than they can be now. Which was the reason for the range nerf in the first place.




I didnt say that ecm should get the 20km range added that they are losing in their jamming range, its a flat nerf to ECM.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#23 - 2016-11-28 20:51:29 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Almost always =/= always. Thats what i was trying to tell you.

ECM isn't a great mechanic because of its RNG and all-or-nothing nature. But this idea has little to do with addressing that. It just half arsed nerf to ECM in certain fights (what a surprise the kind of fights you partake in), when ECM is not in need of a nerf. This IS just another whine thread about ECM.

Why isnt Daichi my main exactly? And who even says i even have a main? I started this game with more than one account, but the one i play most on right now is my new alpha.

Rub your e-peen with that. vOv


Because going by the killboard of Daichi you have 0 say in any discussion involving pvp.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#24 - 2016-11-28 21:06:06 UTC
Is like saying you have no say in balancing mechanics for anything other than micro gangs. So why do you think you have any say when it comes to ecm?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-11-29 16:08:50 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Almost always =/= always. Thats what i was trying to tell you.

ECM isn't a great mechanic because of its RNG and all-or-nothing nature. But this idea has little to do with addressing that. It just half arsed nerf to ECM in certain fights (what a surprise the kind of fights you partake in), when ECM is not in need of a nerf. This IS just another whine thread about ECM.

Why isnt Daichi my main exactly? And who even says i even have a main? I started this game with more than one account, but the one i play most on right now is my new alpha.

Rub your e-peen with that. vOv


Because going by the killboard of Daichi you have 0 say in any discussion involving pvp.


None of your top used ship are ECM ones so by that standard, you would have little to say on the matter right?
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#26 - 2016-11-29 17:05:10 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Almost always =/= always. Thats what i was trying to tell you.

ECM isn't a great mechanic because of its RNG and all-or-nothing nature. But this idea has little to do with addressing that. It just half arsed nerf to ECM in certain fights (what a surprise the kind of fights you partake in), when ECM is not in need of a nerf. This IS just another whine thread about ECM.

Why isnt Daichi my main exactly? And who even says i even have a main? I started this game with more than one account, but the one i play most on right now is my new alpha.

Rub your e-peen with that. vOv


Because going by the killboard of Daichi you have 0 say in any discussion involving pvp.


None of your top used ship are ECM ones so by that standard, you would have little to say on the matter right?


No one good in this game has ecm anywhere in his/her top used ships. Its not about flying the ship a lot, its about knowing how pvp works in this game. And if you have under 100 kills and losses combined one obviously doesnt know what one is talking about. Or is posting on an alt.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#27 - 2016-11-29 17:18:19 UTC
The idea has some merit, but trying to keep an unbiased view as a solo pilot, i can see both sides of the argument. As a solo pilot, its infuriating to be fighting a good fight on gate in my battleship, then gate fires and a BB/falcon pops in 8km from me, and before i can lock, im permajammed.

At the same time, completely negating their EWAR in 24km range is a bit excessive. Either reduce the range to under 10km (thus scram/brawling is possible or just have strength reduced below 20km. Like the opposite of a heavy grappler (closer to 0km, the less effective it is, but still does something).

Or make sensor strength scale with range. So being at 10km on a battleship with 36 SS would be more like having 80 SS. Then being farther away would bring it to its normal base value (but not below it, so fleets are relatively unaffected).

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#28 - 2016-11-29 17:26:14 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
The idea has some merit, but trying to keep an unbiased view as a solo pilot, i can see both sides of the argument. As a solo pilot, its infuriating to be fighting a good fight on gate in my battleship, then gate fires and a BB/falcon pops in 8km from me, and before i can lock, im permajammed.

At the same time, completely negating their EWAR in 24km range is a bit excessive. Either reduce the range to under 10km (thus scram/brawling is possible or just have strength reduced below 20km. Like the opposite of a heavy grappler (closer to 0km, the less effective it is, but still does something).

Or make sensor strength scale with range. So being at 10km on a battleship with 36 SS would be more like having 80 SS. Then being farther away would bring it to its normal base value (but not below it, so fleets are relatively unaffected).


24km is just an example, im just annoyed mainly by the fact that ecm is the only ewar that in itself also is a gtfo card. If a celestis or a arbi is tackled its dead, a bb ijust warps away.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#29 - 2016-11-29 18:27:48 UTC
Posting in stealth "buff hisec ganking" thread.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2016-11-29 18:50:44 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
So...if it should not be possible to use ECM to break tackle on yourself, what SHOULD a ship that is tackled by a superior foe be expected to do? Die without a chance? Fit a neut and hope you get very, very lucky?


Die without a chance obviously (or fit dps/tank or warpcore stabs). Its eve, if you get tackled by a vindicator in a t1 cruiser they dont complain about it either. Dont get tackled by a superior ship or die.


Do you not think that removing counter-play is a bad idea? Why is fitting DPS or stabs a valid option in your view, but fitting ewar not?

if the vindicator doesn't bring a friend, or a sebo, why should be be guaranteed a kill against someone who took precautions?
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#31 - 2016-11-29 19:15:54 UTC  |  Edited by: W0lf Crendraven
Danika Princip wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
So...if it should not be possible to use ECM to break tackle on yourself, what SHOULD a ship that is tackled by a superior foe be expected to do? Die without a chance? Fit a neut and hope you get very, very lucky?


Die without a chance obviously (or fit dps/tank or warpcore stabs). Its eve, if you get tackled by a vindicator in a t1 cruiser they dont complain about it either. Dont get tackled by a superior ship or die.


Do you not think that removing counter-play is a bad idea? Why is fitting DPS or stabs a valid option in your view, but fitting ewar not?

if the vindicator doesn't bring a friend, or a sebo, why should be be guaranteed a kill against someone who took precautions?


To be honest, i dont really care about a hulk or similar fittign ewar as protection. Thats pretty irrelevant overall especially as all ships that arent bonused are way worse with ecm fit then in a proper combat (or escape) fit (seriously, dont fit ecm on non jam ships, its a horrible idea).


But, again the starting point still stands, ewar is supposed to be ewar, not a get out of jail free card once you messed up and got tackled. If that person fit a damp or a td it wouldnt help him at all, ecm could (its super unlikely seeing a vindis sensor strenght vs unbonused most likely offracial or multispec jams but still).
Iain Cariaba
#32 - 2016-11-29 19:46:54 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Posting in stealth "buff hisec ganking" thread.

Roll

Go actually do some ganking before you spout off about it. This suggestion would have little to no effect on highsec ganking, as only the impotent white knights use ECM in regards to ganking.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2016-11-29 22:24:00 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Posting in stealth "buff hisec ganking" thread.

Roll

Go actually do some ganking before you spout off about it. This suggestion would have little to no effect on highsec ganking, as only the impotent white knights use ECM in regards to ganking.

Now now, I have fun messing with them in a disposable blackbird and occasional jam scorp.
Few things are as fun as them losing 3 ganks, failing a 4th trying to gank me, then succeeding a gank on me for the 5th, sending a fake butthurt form, then finding out I know OCR.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#34 - 2016-11-29 22:54:59 UTC
But this woudnt affect that at all, you just would have to be a bit more carefull about positioning.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#35 - 2016-11-30 19:15:21 UTC
umm no because ecm doesn't even work that way in the real world

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Vakr Onzo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2016-12-01 00:39:01 UTC
ECM can be countered by simply not being targetable.
Countered by having modules and skills that boost your sensor strength.
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