EVE General Discussion

Let me ask the other way around - why do people make corps, if they allegedly don't get anything out of it and only risk getting murdered by Marmite everytime they enter Jita?

A: They actually *do* value the ability to either pay no tax or collect the tax for themselves, share hangars and wallets, wear colors and build structures even if they don't intend to build them right away.
B: They made a stupid decision.

In case A, they do actually enjoy substantial benefits, and should be prepared to defend them, and in case B ... well, we know what stupid decisions can lead to in Eve.

edit: C: They simply didn't know they could get stomped by Marmite, in which case it's about time they learned it. :)

*) using "Marmite" as a placeholder because they are the evilest griefiest evil griefers after CODE, who don't need wardecs.

edit2: can we make "marmiting" a word?

In the case of tax this is already a risk vs reward in both what the corp gains and possibly what the player gains. After all any tax above 0% will discourage players from joining, 0% tax is a benefit yes but when players abandon the corp they are sacrificing that benefit.

Corp hangars are things the corp already pays for these are not automatic benefits.

Wallets yes but again that is a risk vs reward, if you allow someone to gain access to your wallet you risk losing it all.

Structures as I said before are already covered as risk vs reward.

There is no benefit in a player corp that is not all ready risk vs reward or that has little to do with the actual corp mechanism but to do with things players organise them selves.

If you gained faster training times or greater drop rates or things like that then Yes, corp would have a benefit without a risk but they don't. There is no automatic benefit to join a corp so there should not be one for leaving it.

If you want to argue the merits of 50% higher training times then yeah sure.

@Mark Marconi:

I disagree that having a tax above 0 is a risk. If you merely "risk" not gaining a benefit you wouldn't normally get, that's not a risk. But I'm not arguing anyway that people should not be allowed to just abandon ship if they don't have any stationary assets. If they suddenly don't value their 0% tax in the face of a few dudes with guns, they can just go. But, I can make them do so, and that's fine. I said so before.

However, if they make a corp, they either gain something by doing so or they don't know why they made it in the first place. Attacking them in either case is not griefing, like some like to claim, but fair game. It's either taking advantage of their mistake, or challenging their claim - two things very common in every aspect of Eve.

The Eve community repeatedly tells people to not fly a battleship for example if they don't have the necessary skills and experience to effectively do so. If they do so anyway, lose it and then come to us crying, we don't blame the game or whatever caused the battleship to go pop, no, we laugh at them and then tell them where they went wrong. When the same thing happens with a corporation a player was not fit to lead or defend, quite a few people like to do the opposite: Blame the game or the attackers and demand changes to the mechanic, which CCP has been unusually willing to implement those last few years. What I am asking now is to merely offset them a bit, because I think while mostly sensible, they went a bit overboard in some areas.

And finally, if it really is as you claim, and some players do not reap any benefits from making a corp, they could simply, you know, not make one. But they do, and thereby they present themselves to all those bad guys who love to shoot at their spaceships in this game that ultimately is all about shooting at spaceships.

I think you misunderstand the frame of the question I pondered, which is the pure mechanics of forming a corp, not what players add on to corps. Mineral by backs, free ships etc.. are not an automatic when you create a corp and if you chose to fold a corp due to a war dec you have fortified that isk.

When you are talking about putting mechanics in place you must look at the mechanics currently in place not things people add onto those mechanics. At the moment the benefits of making a corp are minor and so the effects of disbanding them or leaving must also be minor.

In Null (Sov Null) the effects of Corporations are major, disbanding them is also major but leaving them is nothing. Now in hi-sec Citadels give a benefit and a massive risk but it is not like in hi-sec I can gain sov because i am in a corp and build a super.

So you pretty much say you ran away from us because Highsec was too hard for you and now from the distance where you think we can't reach you you boast "Come at me bro!!" with an NPC alt to make sure we can't actually find you? Lol, carebears...

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, but I am going to correct you on a few misconceptions.

1. ALL PVP is PVP. EVE Online is one big PVP arena. Everything you do is PVP to some degree or another, including mining (you didn't think those other miners in that belt were only getting resources specifically instanced for them, did you?) That being said, there is plenty of PVP combat going on in highsec as well, and one need look no further than RvB to see it.

2. I live in low, buddy.

3. My killboard begs to differ.

I was talking about giving corporations real meaning, not forcing people to join them. Leave the NPC corps in place, that's fine, but once you join or create a corporation, that needs to be much more meaningful. It needs to be more of a commitment. If I were to guess, I would say 90+% of high sec corps exist for the sole purpose of escaping NPC corp taxes, and nothing more. There is no point to these corps except min/maxing income.

But these corporations exist because right now, there is no other reason for them to exist in high sec. In low and nul, you have real assets, real territory. Yes, even in empire space, you can control your space, making it your territory. And let's not forget all the lowsec R64s. I've been playing since 2012, and seen more often than not corporations in high sec serving absolutely no purpose that can't be served in literally any other corporation.

You call me all the childish names you want, kiddo, but at the end of the day, your understanding of this game is too poor to form any kind of accurate, observation-based assessment of its problems. So I'll take your insult for what it is, a petty childish tantrum, and we'll move on from this unfortunate bit of business. Try to be constructive with your criticism of ideas, please, because if you continue to insult the people instead of addressing their ideas, someone's gonna report you, and you'll find yourself unable to post at all.

In a game where virtually every mechanic is designed around driving PVP in one form or another, why not?

Can you show me an example of at least one highsec merc group with any significant static assets in space?

Buddy, mining, industry, and science, are PVP. You are COMPETING WITH OTHER PLAYERS! That DED that drops the Moa BPC you need? Someone else can come in there and ninja it off you. But even if you grab it, you have to compete with other players on the market to sell it or its product. It's all PVP, mate. All of it. And do you know what all that mining, industry, and science produces? MORE SHIPS TO BLOW UP!! That's right. And if ships weren't getting blown up, no one would be replacing them. DING DING DING!!! We getting it yet? Even an industrial corp is a perfectly valid target, whether they can defend themselves or not, because they produce stuff that other players can use against you. Or, maybe, you just want to run a protection racket on 'em and make them build stuff for you and you alone. Capiche?

Don't know why you think there'd be no stations. Everyone needs a place to dock, repair, and manage their various other bits and pieces.

It seems bizarre that the idea of a small corp wardeccing a large corp should be considered harrasement.
I would have thought that making it cheaper for small corps to declare war would lead to more PVP.
(Sort of like paying CONCORD to negate the sec status loss of one's ganks, so to speak)