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Death By A Million Cuts

Author
Matar Ronin
#101 - 2016-11-26 19:06:15 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
People who treat slavery strictly as pure, for-profit business (Amarr Empire), as tools and victims to be used up and thrown away (Amarr Empire), as ... subjects for conversion into parts of a hive mind (Amarr Empire), or ...


Fixed it for you. You know these things happen in the Empire, and if you haven't seen proof of that by now you've been wearing blinders for a very long time. You can try to trot out as many 'good' Holders as you wish, it'll never change that there are demonstrably as many monsters among the loyal Imperials as there are outside of the Empire when it comes to how human beings are treated once you allow them to become property.

You can also point at however many other issues (capsuleer slave market and so on) as evils to be corrected - and you'd be correct - but none of that would fix the underlying cancer that is at fault for these things to happen in the first place. The practice of human slavery in your "civilized" Empire.

None of the above would be anywhere near as prevalent or legitimized without that abuse and destruction of human lives, and none of the above symptoms you lament can be treated without carving out the underlying disease that is the cause.

Trying to fight any of these symptoms while nurturing and protecting the cancer is nonsensical to a degree you can't possibly be unaware of.
Well said Pilot Del'thul.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#102 - 2016-11-26 19:32:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Deitra Vess wrote:
Well, where ever he is I hope he's in a better place. I do have to say though, are we all 100% sure he isn't still buying slaves? Simply stopping doesn't seem to be something who would destroy a freighter full of slaves would do on a whim, nor can I believe he is trust worthy enough to take his word at face value.

... oh, here we get into dicey territory.

Do I know for sure? No.

Do I believe him when he says he isn't? ... Yeah.

Why? Because he's never been deceptive, and I've seen or heard nothing to make me think he's lying to me. Because he's been true to his word so far. Because he's honored our agreement in letter and spirit.

Because he's given over close to thirty-five thousand people so far, in trade for a hug, and, maybe, my willingness to continue contact. Because he's sometimes sent along materials or information I'd need to keep more of them alive longer, although that wasn't strictly part of the deal.

Because so far the people he's turned over have been exactly who he said they were.

Because he knows what I want out of this, and so far he's been willing to provide it.

Ever since I took him up on his offer, I've been in kind of uncharted territory, feeling my way, making up my path as I go along. It's dangerous ground. I've lost at least one friend over it.

We're supposed to be meeting for tea, soon, in, as he says, non-weaponizable paper cups. It seems he's more wary of me than I of him, though I doubt if I harmed him I'd escape alive.

It's dangerous to continue. It's been dangerous from the start.

I'll be going.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#103 - 2016-11-26 19:40:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Mizhara Del'thul.

If there is truth in your words, I'll hear it from Ms. Vess, maybe from Mr. Ronin.

Not from you.

I stopped caring what you thought a while ago, and you know why already.

Your opinion is dust, ashes, and sand.


Edit:

Oh, hey! Maybe I can hold a grudge after all!
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#104 - 2016-11-26 19:45:07 UTC
I know, it's kind of funny.
Matar Ronin
#105 - 2016-11-26 19:50:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Matar Ronin
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Well, where ever he is I hope he's in a better place. I do have to say though, are we all 100% sure he isn't still buying slaves? Simply stopping doesn't seem to be something who would destroy a freighter full of slaves would do on a whim, nor can I believe he is trust worthy enough to take his word at face value.

... oh, here we get into dicey territory.

Do I know for sure? No.

Do I believe him when he says he isn't? ... Yeah.

Why? Because he's never been deceptive, and I've seen or heard nothing to make me think he's lying to me. Because he's been true to his word so far. Because he's honored our agreement in letter and spirit.

Because he's given over close to thirty-five thousand people so far, in trade for a hug, and, maybe, my willingness to continue contact. Because he's sometimes sent along materials I'd need to keep more of them alive longer, although that wasn't strictly part of the deal.

Because so far the people he's turned over have been exactly who he said they were.

Because he knows what I want out of this, and so far he's been willing to provide it.

Ever since I took him up on his offer, I've been in kind of uncharted territory, feeling my way, making up my path as I go along. It's dangerous ground. I've lost at least one friend over it.

We're supposed to be meeting for tea, soon, in, as he says, non-weaponizable paper cups. It seems he's more wary of me than I of him, though I doubt if I harmed him I'd escape alive.

It's dangerous to continue. It's been dangerous from the start.

I'll be going.
Perhaps the constant visitations/friendships with monsters has dulled your senses. You might want to examine how you define friend before you find yourself having a warm chat with recruiters for the Nation that also promise to exclude you if you just smile at their activities that don't target you personally.

Is there no evil you can't ignore if the person has a pleasant personality or skill in the social graces?

What does that really say about you? I pray you give it serious thought and consideration. I am ever optimistic you can do better and have a moral compass that points you in a positive direction in the service of humanity and away from self indulgent delusions that are easily contradicted by independent facts on every turn.

"Gives aid and comfort to the worst monsters of the New Eden Cluster" is not a label you should aspire to, or try to maintain Pilot Jenneth.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#106 - 2016-11-26 21:11:20 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Perhaps the constant visitations/friendships with monsters has dulled your senses. You might want to examine how you define friend before you find yourself having a warm chat with recruiters for the Nation that also promise to exclude you if you just smile at their activities that don't target you personally.

Been there, done that.

Sort of.

PY-RE.

Quote:
Is there no evil you can't ignore if the person has a pleasant personality or skill in the social graces?

What does that really say about you? I pray you give it serious thought and consideration. I am ever optimistic you can do better and have a moral compass that points you in a positive direction in the service of humanity and away from self indulgent delusions that are easily contradicted by independent facts on every turn.

"Gives aid and comfort to the worst monsters of the New Eden Cluster" is not a label you should aspire to, or try to maintain Pilot Jenneth.

If it means they stop being monsters long enough for a cup of tea, is that really such a bad thing?

We're pseudo-immortal, Mr. Ronin. There have to be solutions to that kind of monster that don't involve slaying them.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#107 - 2016-11-27 07:21:39 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Mizhara Del'thul.

If there is truth in your words, I'll hear it from Ms. Vess, maybe from Mr. Ronin.

Not from you.

.....

Edit:

Oh, hey! Maybe I can hold a grudge after all!

To be completely honest with you, I'm probably the LAST person you should hear her truths from. If I went through even half of what she has gone through I certainly wouldn't be able to take a single stance I take today. I was lucky enough to never know any of the things that haunt her, all the while in a dream land in my head, or becoming very disappointed when I actually got there. I'll be the first one to say I probably shouldn't even be fighting when it comes to my mixed up childhood. But then again thats exactly why I'm there. Rent doesn't pay itself as they say... Being able to hold a grudge is easy, don't be surprised you can hold one, be surprised when you can't.

Aria Jenneth wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Perhaps the constant visitations/friendships with monsters has dulled your senses. You might want to examine how you define friend before you find yourself having a warm chat with recruiters for the Nation that also promise to exclude you if you just smile at their activities that don't target you personally.

Been there, done that.

Sort of.

PY-RE.

Quote:
Is there no evil you can't ignore if the person has a pleasant personality or skill in the social graces?

What does that really say about you? I pray you give it serious thought and consideration. I am ever optimistic you can do better and have a moral compass that points you in a positive direction in the service of humanity and away from self indulgent delusions that are easily contradicted by independent facts on every turn.

"Gives aid and comfort to the worst monsters of the New Eden Cluster" is not a label you should aspire to, or try to maintain Pilot Jenneth.

If it means they stop being monsters long enough for a cup of tea, is that really such a bad thing?

We're pseudo-immortal, Mr. Ronin. There have to be solutions to that kind of monster that don't involve slaying them.


Ronin doesn't seem to have ever been a mercenary. A lot of this is simply a life experience that you, Miz, or I (I say that because I fought against you on occasions with Scope works along side the TLF among other groups) are accustomed to at this point but he simply hasn't had that experience yet. We are monsters. That isn't really deniable, to us at least. When you look at another ship, hear "primary is ____," and don't even think about it aside from overheating your guns & warp scrambler and watching the target lock connect...... You know what feeling I'm talking about. Its not really an issue of it making you a bad person, well unless you were one to begin with i guess.

Nauplius, hes one in the same with us aside from the fact he takes it six steps too far. Personally I just don't see how you could trust him but then again, your path isn't mine. Much like i have no place speaking the truths Miz has, I have no place saying your reasoning with that..... thing, is wrong. Doesn't mean I wouldn't advise against it however. What can I say? I'm just a little biased on that one.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#108 - 2016-11-27 08:36:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Deitra Vess wrote:
To be completely honest with you, I'm probably the LAST person you should hear her truths from. If I went through even half of what she has gone through I certainly wouldn't be able to take a single stance I take today. I was lucky enough to never know any of the things that haunt her, all the while in a dream land in my head, or becoming very disappointed when I actually got there. I'll be the first one to say I probably shouldn't even be fighting when it comes to my mixed up childhood. But then again thats exactly why I'm there. Rent doesn't pay itself as they say... Being able to hold a grudge is easy, don't be surprised you can hold one, be surprised when you can't.

Thank you for your thoughts, Ms. Vess.

Without going into too much detail, I'll just say that I don't really care what Miz has gone through. I'm aware that she's a damaged person. That doesn't mean I forgive her.

To me, her judgment is contemptible, her word meaningless, her insight diseased. I trust nothing she says.

My feelings here are personal and practical, not moral. I don't know whether she is a good person by any definition, and truthfully I don't care.

I have no use for her. That's all.

Quote:
Ronin doesn't seem to have ever been a mercenary. A lot of this is simply a life experience that you, Miz, or I (I say that because I fought against you on occasions with Scope works along side the TLF among other groups) are accustomed to at this point but he simply hasn't had that experience yet. We are monsters. That isn't really deniable, to us at least. When you look at another ship, hear "primary is ____," and don't even think about it aside from overheating your guns & warp scrambler and watching the target lock connect...... You know what feeling I'm talking about. Its not really an issue of it making you a bad person, well unless you were one to begin with i guess.

From some perspectives, a good mercenary is a bad person by definition. I'm not sure that's something I believe, myself. I do know that the work wore at me more than I understood until much later. I'm not the lost child who first came to visit the Empire.

You were with Anslo, weren't you, the time we charged his T3D fleet with Catalysts? ... it was a suicidal charge; we figured if we took even one T3D down it would cover the full value of every destroyer we lost. Anslo was so sure we headshotted him. Actually, it was nothing so calculated. It seemed like Des just called someone whose death we'd find satisfying as primary, and away we went.

I called Jebi primary a few months ago for similar reasons. That was probably a "headshot," too. ... Noisy person.

Yeah. You're right. I know those feelings. Even now, that's still the person I am-- someone poisoned with cold and hungry for death. Even after mostly staying away from the field for months, I still like the taste of blood.

So ... I guess I can't really deny being a monster. Just, I've decided to be careful whose orders I take. I'm not really kidding when I describe myself as the hawk on the Praefecta's wrist.

And, yeah. I kind of got the sense Mr. Ronin hadn't hunted a lot of capsuleers when I read his duel conditions.

Quote:
Nauplius, hes one in the same with us aside from the fact he takes it six steps too far. Personally I just don't see how you could trust him but then again, your path isn't mine. Much like i have no place speaking the truths Miz has, I have no place saying your reasoning with that..... thing, is wrong. Doesn't mean I wouldn't advise against it however. What can I say? I'm just a little biased on that one.

Only, I don't think he is so much like us, Ms. Vess. He's a capable enough duelist, for sure, but the hallmark of our kind of creature is the cold. We kill incidentally: a target off of overview, a thrill of satisfaction, a new target call. There might be a few, or a few hundred, dead, but we don't really see or register it.

(It hits me just a little harder when it's face to face; I haven't done that often, but I have done it, now. I can't say I feel very bad about that, either.)

Mr. Nauplius knows exactly what he's doing, at least when it comes to his captives. He's even demonstrated empathy when he's not talking about religion. What he does is all very real to him; he even considers appreciating the horror of it something proper in Sani Sabik practice. And he's really devout.

What do you feed an all-powerful, sadistic deity? Well....

Pain. Fear. Grief. Despair. ... Probably mostly other people's, but, maybe even your own.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#109 - 2016-11-27 08:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
We made you useful, Aria. That's what we did, we took disconnected and damaged people and we tractored them to a cause and we made them useful. Was the cause always good? No. But you can't say that it we killed just for the thrill of it - even if most of us did enjoy the experience. I don't remember any of us making a bonfire of humanity to glorify ourselves, either.

Every single target I've ever brought down was for a cause. Mine or someone elses. If I knocked on your door then the chances were that something you did or said brought me there - even if I never knew what it was.

It's the same now. You and I fight an enemy that is alien and horrific and murderous and which has done something that brings us to their door, twice weekly.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#110 - 2016-11-27 16:37:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
We made you useful, Aria. That's what we did, we took disconnected and damaged people and we tractored them to a cause and we made them useful. Was the cause always good? No. But you can't say that it we killed just for the thrill of it - even if most of us did enjoy the experience. I don't remember any of us making a bonfire of humanity to glorify ourselves, either.

Every single target I've ever brought down was for a cause. Mine or someone elses. If I knocked on your door then the chances were that something you did or said brought me there - even if I never knew what it was.

It's the same now. You and I fight an enemy that is alien and horrific and murderous and which has done something that brings us to their door, twice weekly.

You did. I came to you asking to learn my strength. You gave me exactly what I asked for.

I'm not ungrateful, Pieter. But when I said, later, that I didn't think the Caldari would see anything wrong with me, it's you and Des I was thinking of. I'm really fond of you both, but I'm not ... hardened, quite the way you are.

More to the point, I don't want to be.

If I'd known what the cost would be, would I still have come? I might have. The insult that drove me to you stung badly, pricked at a shortcoming I saw in myself:

I'm a capsuleer. If I won't kill, what am I even for?

Well-- I'm useful, now. You gave that to me. Only ... I want to know what I'm killing for, Pieter. And I want not to regret it.

I want it to be safe for me to care why.
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#111 - 2016-11-27 16:39:56 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
I'm a capsuleer. If I won't kill, what am I even for?

High efficiency and autonomy in anything that involves spaceships or multitasking.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#112 - 2016-11-27 16:48:16 UTC
My non-slave-containing hanger was audited by Vlad a few weeks back; I don't know whether he reported the results to anyone beyond Sammie. I make no promises regarding the slave-containing status of my hanger in the future; my last written agreement obliging me to have no slaves there expired a few days ago. There are, however, no slaves there now.

Aria Jenneth wrote:
I've lost at least one friend over it.


This is saddening.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#113 - 2016-11-27 16:50:20 UTC
You actually had someone audit your hanger? I don't know if I'm impressed or..... Ya I don't know.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#114 - 2016-11-27 16:58:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
I'm a capsuleer. If I won't kill, what am I even for?

High efficiency and autonomy in anything that involves spaceships or multitasking.

The industrialist's response. Only (1) that path, also, is usually pretty bloody, just not always in the sense of pulling the trigger yourself. An industrialist's course is normally to use materials someone died over to make weapons for those who do the fighting.

In keeping with that, (2) I'm not someone who's comfortable asking others to do dirty work I won't do myself.

And, (3) I live permanently in the shadow of my predecessor, Mr. Ramal. Even if no one ever mentioned her to me, I came into this existence with a head full of the things she knew, or believed, even if I couldn't remember how any of it got there. Point (1), above, is originally hers-- a near-automatic response when someone claims that industrial capsuleers have cleaner hands.

In terms of skills, what I came into this world knowing was how to fight. Missile launchers, shields, navigation, tactics-- I was basically born with years of training in how to hunt my own. Everything she knew.

Anslo compared me to her, and found me pathetic. I wanted to tear his throat out. So I went to people who'd help me learn to do just that.

They did.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#115 - 2016-11-27 17:01:03 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
You actually had someone audit your hanger? I don't know if I'm impressed or..... Ya I don't know.


Anyone invited to audit my hanger is subject to a rigorous inspection by one of my associates.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#116 - 2016-11-27 17:04:24 UTC
I don't believe he did believe that when you first resurfaced. I'm not trying to speak for him but it definitely seemed that way in conversations I had with him at the time. Later he definitely did however. And going back to something before, he complained about being headshotted by you guys for a few days. For striking for effect you definitely hot your mark.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#117 - 2016-11-27 17:05:19 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
You actually had someone audit your hanger? I don't know if I'm impressed or..... Ya I don't know.


Anyone invited to audit my hanger is subject to a rigorous inspection by one of my associates.

I would more than expect that honestly. That's only natural for anybody.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#118 - 2016-11-27 17:28:09 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
I don't believe he did believe that when you first resurfaced. I'm not trying to speak for him but it definitely seemed that way in conversations I had with him at the time. Later he definitely did however.

Yeah, I remember. The two of you were some of the first people who ever communicated with me, while I was locked in my quarters waiting to find out whether I was going to be stripped of my identity and then almost certainly shot.

I didn't even know who I was, yet, I don't think.

Anslo was nice to me. Wanted to help me.

... later, though ...

Insults from people who don't know me very well don't tend to take, really. Mr. Ronin, for example, doesn't even know me well enough to identify my mistress. He just thinks of her as some random Amarrian. When it comes to my status as a sworn retainer, he literally doesn't know what he's talking about, so, I don't care very much what he says.

Insults from people who really understand what they're saying, and especially from people I've cared about in the past, and wanted to prove myself to-- wanted to be liked by.... Those are a little more meaningful.

Maybe to everyone. Definitely to me.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#119 - 2016-11-27 18:45:41 UTC
Aria, we have fond memories of flying with you. I would be the first person to admit that Luna is a much nicer person than myself.

I'm glad that you got what you needed in return for giving us what we asked for. For the record, we're also happy that you're in a calmer, happier, place now. If it's any consolation, I would say that the same is true of both Des and I, too.

I'm happier as a putative "saviour of humanity" and I think Des is happier being out from under her command role.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#120 - 2016-11-27 21:58:04 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Aria, we have fond memories of flying with you. I would be the first person to admit that Luna is a much nicer person than myself.

I'm glad that you got what you needed in return for giving us what we asked for. For the record, we're also happy that you're in a calmer, happier, place now. If it's any consolation, I would say that the same is true of both Des and I, too.

I'm happier as a putative "saviour of humanity" and I think Des is happier being out from under her command role.

"Nice" isn't quite the issue, Pieter. It's more ... oh, gods, how to put it?

I wasn't unhappy, you know? I was okay with it. I was proud. I was happy. I loved being a Falcon.

Only then I took that leave of absence to go and see more of the world, and the contrast was a little intolerable. Surrounded with all that life-- all those people just living their lives, all that warmth and light-- I started to feel like a miserable little wad of ink and soot with a face.

Not a proud hunter. A shadow. A remnant of something that used to be a person.

I guess, for a killer, I'm a little sensitive.

I couldn't go back to PY-RE, not without feeling like I was surrendering whatever was left of me. It's not even you and Des I was afraid of turning into. It was ... the person who's always seemed kind of like my own reflection in a cursed mirror would be ...

Veik.

For two people so totally different from one another, we have too much in common. By a lot.

I'm glad you've both found some peace of your own, Pieter. I remember my time in PY-RE fondly, in spite of all I've said. I'm not sure I really regret any of it. Just, I guess....

I didn't quite believe anymore that being a mercenary is a very constructive way to exist in the world. If I was going to be a shadow, I wanted to attach myself to the strongest, steadiest source of light I could find. I wanted a cause, only I didn't have any I really believed in.

So-- I found someone, instead. A couple of someones, really.

One's ... gone, now. We parted ways months ago. I hope he's okay.

The other's still here.

... and wants me to take a vacation.

I have such mixed feelings.