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Nebula Backgrounds
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#1 - 2016-11-26 06:06:55 UTC
I want technical expertise. Im not a programmer. Im not a graphics designer.

How hard would it to be to get the nebula backgrounds, the "Eve screen savers," to move? To grow, rotate, fly through. To just move.

Kinda like your permanently flying through it. Not necessarily fast just moving through even slowly over time? Its not so much about physics, getting the planets to orbit the sun and stuff but to get the nebula to move.Big smile

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-11-26 06:20:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Nebula don't 'move' though, at least they won't appear to from this range. Parallax. It would be more realistic to explore the possibility of getting those planets moving instead. The lack of motion in this game is my single greatest criticism of it, and disappointment with it. Elite Dangerous actually beats it out in aces in this department. 99.9% of the time, planetary motion in Elite is bang on, with the exception of the occasional moon zipping through a gas giant's rings without clearing them out.

This is probably the best and craziest example of proper planetary motion in the game though, and definitely the most famous. It's so close to the planet, it only takes 90s to complete one full orbit.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#3 - 2016-11-26 06:26:58 UTC
Im thinking more of a moving background atm than an actual physics issue. Just the appearance of motion would be a HUGE start graphically when your sitting in space watching stuff. And the nebula would, imo, be a pretty interesting and low physics and therefore programming nightmare to start with.

The computational power needed to track not only us players, objects and now planets and solar system information would be HUGE. But just graphically moving nebula might not be so hard as it could be client side like a graphics switch/toggle than a server side issue.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-11-26 06:33:10 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Im thinking more of a moving background atm than an actual physics issue. Just the appearance of motion would be a HUGE start graphically when your sitting in space watching stuff. And the nebula would, imo, be a pretty interesting and low physics and therefore programming nightmare to start with.

The computational power needed to track not only us players, objects and now planets and solar system information would be HUGE. But just graphically moving nebula might not be so hard as it could be client side like a graphics switch/toggle than a server side issue.


Nebulae that moved and swirled from thousands of lightyears away, visibly, would be a turn off to me. They don't even do that up close. Spend some time with a telescope and look at some real ones, see for yourself.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2016-11-26 07:43:26 UTC
OP these nebulae are so huge that they have clusters of stars in them as details, some very hot nebulae are the hatchery for dozens of stars. Even at 20au/sec you could get old and die waiting to see the scenery change.
I love the way we get different views as we gate-to-gate across eve. It's a reminder of the cosmic scale of the cluster that's needed since you can get anywhere in an hour with gates alone.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#6 - 2016-11-26 09:25:17 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
OP these nebulae are so huge that they have clusters of stars in them as details, some very hot nebulae are the hatchery for dozens of stars. Even at 20au/sec you could get old and die waiting to see the scenery change.
I love the way we get different views as we gate-to-gate across eve. It's a reminder of the cosmic scale of the cluster that's needed since you can get anywhere in an hour with gates alone.




I understand this on an actual cosmic scale. But seeing as planetary and universal shifts and orbits would be a programming and computational nightmare getting the nebula to move and shift might not be seeing as its only visual and background. Hence the idea and thread. Im thinking some visual changes without real lag inducing computational and physics changes.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#7 - 2016-11-26 09:34:12 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
The computational power needed to track not only us players, objects and now planets and solar system information would be HUGE.

Are you sure about this? Elite Dangerous seems to have it and their universe is much bigger than ours.
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2016-11-26 09:41:09 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Nebula don't 'move' though, at least they won't appear to from this range. Parallax. It would be more realistic to explore the possibility of getting those planets moving instead. The lack of motion in this game is my single greatest criticism of it, and disappointment with it. Elite Dangerous actually beats it out in aces in this department. 99.9% of the time, planetary motion in Elite is bang on, with the exception of the occasional moon zipping through a gas giant's rings without clearing them out.

This is probably the best and craziest example of proper planetary motion in the game though, and definitely the most famous. It's so close to the planet, it only takes 90s to complete one full orbit.

They move on the probe scanner interface if you watch. Not sure if that reflects in game though.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-11-26 09:44:30 UTC
Myriad Blaze wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
The computational power needed to track not only us players, objects and now planets and solar system information would be HUGE.

Are you sure about this? Elite Dangerous seems to have it and their universe is much bigger than ours.


He literally doesn't know what he's talking about on this one. Elite Dangerous proves that even if it is huge, it can be done, and for far more (literally billions more) star systems than EVE has. For EVE, such a thing would be a cakewalk.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#10 - 2016-11-26 10:21:30 UTC
Moving planets (and stations with them) would be great. It would be a huge game changer.

Remove standings and insurance.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#11 - 2016-11-26 10:54:49 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Myriad Blaze wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
The computational power needed to track not only us players, objects and now planets and solar system information would be HUGE.

Are you sure about this? Elite Dangerous seems to have it and their universe is much bigger than ours.


He literally doesn't know what he's talking about on this one. Elite Dangerous proves that even if it is huge, it can be done, and for far more (literally billions more) star systems than EVE has. For EVE, such a thing would be a cakewalk.

Except that you fail to understand that ED was written MUCH MUCH later than Eve was and that it is limited due to legacy code....Roll

He literally DOESNT know what hes saying.....Roll

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Venkhar Krard
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2016-11-26 11:07:46 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
It would be a huge game changer.


Lol, yeah. That's why it is a horrible idea. Planets flying around the system with 30km/s (like they do in real) would totally not ruin most of the game mechanics of the game.

Elite can get away with it, cause there is almost nothing to do in a system, and coordinates are abstract, not fixed like in Eve. It is just cheating.


Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#13 - 2016-11-26 11:09:00 UTC
Computationally even 1000s of simple point objects could be done on the CPU client side without too much performance impact - more if you used compute shaders and depending on what you are doing ways to optimise it via things like scene graphs, various forums of sparse data container types, frustum culling, etc. to minimise what you are working with. I believe the biggest performance hog would be the amount of square root calculations done in rotation, etc. basic star fields are mostly some fairly simple sin and cos stuff - fairly simple trigonometry and a little vector maths.
Venkhar Krard
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2016-11-26 11:15:04 UTC
wrong posting :(
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-11-26 11:32:04 UTC
Venkhar Krard wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
It would be a huge game changer.


Lol, yeah. That's why it is a horrible idea. Planets flying around the system with 30km/s (like they do in real) would totally not ruin most of the game mechanics of the game.

Elite can get away with it, cause there is almost nothing to do in a system, and coordinates are abstract, not fixed like in Eve. It is just cheating.




Reality is cheating? Wut?

Elite doesn't just get away with it, it does it right. There is no reason why EVE needs to have fixed coordinates. Worried about bookmarks? Don't worry, they remain connected to the station/gate/belt/other celestial they're on grid with, and move with it, or for deep safes, remain static. Just needs a little maths, not game breaking at all. Putting the planets in motion would just add another good element of immersion to the game, and like it or not, it wasn't that long ago that CCP was expressing interest in making exactly that happen.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#16 - 2016-11-26 12:55:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
As its a skybox around you, shaped like a cube with you in the center, it is textured with nebula. If you would ever had to change that texture, you would have to use technique they use now with explosions, that frame blending, with additional nebula textures. Probably, I am not a graphic programmer. Pirate

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#17 - 2016-11-26 13:42:05 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
As its a skybox around you, shaped like a cube with you in the center, it is textured with nebula. If you would ever had to change that texture, you would have to use technique they use now with explosions, that frame blending, with additional nebula textures. Probably, I am not a graphic programmer. Pirate


I've not checked the eve assets but I'm not sure they have 1 sky box texture map for every system? I believe they are semi-generated at run time i.e. the foreground stars, landmarks, etc. based on your position in the galaxy and some pre-rendered assets like the background star field.
Engage You
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2016-11-26 17:56:50 UTC
Because eve is 13 years old and back then a background image with a 3d model ship would suffice and be called cool.

CCP has already mentioned if they were to change eve code and how it's core functions they would have to literally make eve 2
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#19 - 2016-11-26 19:38:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Rroff wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
As its a skybox around you, shaped like a cube with you in the center, it is textured with nebula. If you would ever had to change that texture, you would have to use technique they use now with explosions, that frame blending, with additional nebula textures. Probably, I am not a graphic programmer. Pirate


I've not checked the eve assets but I'm not sure they have 1 sky box texture map for every system? I believe they are semi-generated at run time i.e. the foreground stars, landmarks, etc. based on your position in the galaxy and some pre-rendered assets like the background star field.

Nebula and starsfield are in 2 layers separated from themselves. There are also actual stars from map projected around in some kind of 3rd layer, when you are journeying you can see a colored line between them (if you have this option enabled). I may be wrong, but i think that Caroline Star Nebula is also on this 3rd layer.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#20 - 2016-11-27 21:03:25 UTC
I usually fly with the route line on - one of the best things they did IMO as it lets me get a feeling for where I am in the galaxy in relation to everything else which helps with the immersion.