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low-sec belts
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Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#21 - 2012-01-18 18:32:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Spank
I always believed it should be the only area you can use to pull your sec status up from negative status. The logic being Concord don't monitor null sec so shouldn't be paying bounties issuing sec rewards out there, and criminal acts anywhere in empire should be acquitted by doing ones time fighting (NPC) piracy in low sec empire.

Benefits:
+ It's not counterable with the usual carebear whine "you just want more shinies to shoot", since it only entices criminals.
+ (very) Moderate nerf to suicide ganking as you have to make up for your crimes with some time spent in low sec, but introduces high sec 'PVP'ers to low sec.
+ 0.0 residents can't just hide in deep null to get their standings up in complete safety.
+ General increase of activity in low sec and a reason to go there (for some).
+ Those visiting to raise sec are obviously PVPers so greater potential for finding small engagements there, and not just 'trying to populate low sec with shiny PVE fit carebears'.

~ repeating myself now so will leave it at that.

EDITED: I didn't mean to suggest removing null rat bounties, just the sec gain.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Othran
Route One
#22 - 2012-01-18 18:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Spank is right and its been argued on and off for years.

Want to make low-sec relevant?

Here's a simple 1, 2, 3.....

1) Bounties for rats in npc null - fine, you can justify it by saying Concorde wants pirates dead. Gets people out there as bounties should be higher. Sec increase in null - no, its not part of Empire.

2) The only place you should be able to increase sec status should be in 0.1-0.4 systems.

3) Bounties for rats (belts etc, not anomalies) in sov null should be down to the sov holder.

Do something like that and low-sec gets more population, npc null might get more and sov holders start paying the real bills.

Won't happen but it'd be nice....
DaRiKavus
Mosh Pit
THE BESTICLES
#23 - 2012-01-18 18:47:00 UTC  |  Edited by: DaRiKavus
Lower the sec status hit in low sec (for engaging) and lower gate gun damage (either make it proportional to sig radius or lower the overall dps) and it would certainly make it a little easier to fight in small gangs or even solo. Hell solo roaming and engaging on a gate in a frig might even be an option.

While I am throwing unresearched, not very well thought out ideas into the mix why not add a couple of BS rats to the gates if a blob has sat there for more than x ammount of time. No bounties or loot for these rats but hopefully drive people off the gates rather than the ghey blobs that roam low sec 50% of the time.


Well I shall take a look at this thread a little later to see how the flaming of my comments goes.

Darik
Plutonian
Intransigent
#24 - 2012-01-18 18:58:56 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
But he does have a point.

Why even bother with low sec? All I've ever seen there are blobs and gate camps (with the odd carrier thrown in) to make any activity in low sec a total waste of time. Massive risk, very little reward.

That's not to mention the sec hit should you actually fire first and kill someone.

And he's also right, you did this all yourselves. Sure, be a pirate and kill every carebear you see, just don't expect that pilot to be back anytime soon. Low sec remains a desolate waste land, gratz! Roll


All right... I'm a gonna bite.

I have, only once, ever attacked a non-combat seeking ship in low-sec. And, in my defense, that pilot was ratting in Amamake 3-1, and I thought he was bait. When it turned out he actually was a new player ratting, I advised him on how to survive, reimbursed his ship, and gave him around 10m isk. Talked him into joining Eve Uni and he was there for about six months. Last I heard he's off in WH space now.

If I encounter two frigates dueling at a planet or belt, I remove myself from the field so they won't think I'll rush in to kill the victor before he can get repped up again.

The last gate camp I participated in was to secure the gates in Fountain while the Brutally Clever Empire set up shop. Think that was back in 2007.

Pluto's current sec status is (IIRC) 4.3. My other character's sec status is 5.0. Why? Because I have no alts, no boosters, no backup, no nothing. Perfect total solo fighter. That means I'm in smaller ships. Want to know who flies the smaller ships these days? Pirates. In two months I've engaged maybe two people who were not flashy... all the rest were pirates.

I give back loot to very younger pilots who lose against me. I never ask for any loot back.

I'm not anti-pirate. Actually, I love pirates; they are the most laid back people you'll ever find in this game.

I've a really nice fit for a Merlin (which I took from Habadasshoodoo or whatever his name is) which is capable of perma-jamming an attacking Rifter. I won't use it, because it seems cheap and a shoddy thing to do to a fellow solo roaming pilot.

I have never kited anything in this game. Stop. Read that again: I have never kited anything in this game. By god if I'm going to commit to a fight, I commit.

I have participated in duels where I could not break my opponent's tank, but was fast enough to pull away from the battle. However, it seems cheap to have a duel which does not end in someone's wreck, so I plunged back in and lost the ship.

I actually don't like duels... they feel artificial to me. That's why I never ask for one. I want to hunt, and I want to be hunted. If I'm facing two or three very young players, I'd rather they gang up on me than for me to engage them one on one.

And should you think I'm just the oddball out there, I do run into people just like myself. Not very often anymore, but it happens.


The reason I'm telling you this is: Your perceptions of lowsec are wrong.
Smodab Ongalot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-01-18 19:09:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Smodab Ongalot
March rabbit wrote:


I am full ****** and can't play eve on my own, so I have to bot drone regions for isk to spend on ships I will never PVP in.


Totally missed the boat, further proving my point that you are a full on ******.

My point is that low-sec has nothing that is original. Lets address your points 1 at a time:

1) Neither does null-sec
2) Better than high-sec? Sure. But why risk mining in low-sec when you can bot in drone regions with relative impunity (that means safety) to obtain the same minerals?
3) Again, not original. Null and wh planets are better.
4) Again, not original.... Null and wh have these too
5) Like i mentioned previously, this is the only advantage to low-sec. Level 5 agents. But, don't they have those in 0.0 too?
6) Clearly, you've never been to low-sec. Our rats suck.

So, why the hell would anyone want to go to low-sec, when they could just as easily go to null or wh to achieve the same results?

Why don't you just go back to running your PVE sites, and leave the real PVP discussion to the PVPers?
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#26 - 2012-01-18 19:47:09 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I always believed it should be the only area you can use to pull your sec status up from negative status. The logic being Concord don't monitor null sec so shouldn't be paying bounties out there, and criminal acts anywhere in empire should be acquitted by doing ones time fighting (NPC) piracy in low sec empire.

Benefits:
+ It's not counterable with the usual carebear whine "you just want more shinies to shoot", since it only entices criminals.
+ (very) Moderate nerf to suicide ganking as you have to make up for your crimes with some time spent in low sec, but introduces high sec 'PVP'ers to low sec.
+ 0.0 residents can't just hide in deep null to get their standings up in complete safety.
+ General increase of activity in low sec and a reason to go there (for some).
+ Those visiting to raise sec are obviously PVPers so greater potential for finding small engagements there, and not just 'trying to populate low sec with shiny PVE fit carebears'.

~ repeating myself now so will leave it at that.

Funny situation .... I have to agree with u ..... Nice idea
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#27 - 2012-01-19 01:08:19 UTC
LOL @ the person who claims lowsec inhabitants can use d-scan. If its not got a spawn beacon, 90% of them can't find it.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-01-19 01:54:17 UTC
Pirates are great fun to shoot at. It's more challenging to catch someone when you can't bubble them. Being able to take gate guns AND hold the field against a larger force? awesome.

FW happens in low sec. So there's that. (for what it's worth I like FW. Small engagements FTW.) Also, no bubbles.

Also, there's no bubbles in low sec.

I don't like bubbles.

I DO like my implants.

/allmyopinionsyoudon'thavetoagreewithme.

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper
Johnny Punisher
Avanto
Hole Control
#29 - 2012-01-19 03:22:06 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I always believed it should be the only area you can use to pull your sec status up from negative status. The logic being Concord don't monitor null sec so shouldn't be paying bounties out there, and criminal acts anywhere in empire should be acquitted by doing ones time fighting (NPC) piracy in low sec empire.

Benefits:
+ It's not counterable with the usual carebear whine "you just want more shinies to shoot", since it only entices criminals.
+ (very) Moderate nerf to suicide ganking as you have to make up for your crimes with some time spent in low sec, but introduces high sec 'PVP'ers to low sec.
+ 0.0 residents can't just hide in deep null to get their standings up in complete safety.
+ General increase of activity in low sec and a reason to go there (for some).
+ Those visiting to raise sec are obviously PVPers so greater potential for finding small engagements there, and not just 'trying to populate low sec with shiny PVE fit carebears'.


I totally support this idea.
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#30 - 2012-01-19 03:25:31 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I always believed it should be the only area you can use to pull your sec status up from negative status. The logic being Concord don't monitor null sec so shouldn't be paying bounties out there, and criminal acts anywhere in empire should be acquitted by doing ones time fighting (NPC) piracy in low sec empire.

Benefits:
+ It's not counterable with the usual carebear whine "you just want more shinies to shoot", since it only entices criminals.
+ (very) Moderate nerf to suicide ganking as you have to make up for your crimes with some time spent in low sec, but introduces high sec 'PVP'ers to low sec.
+ 0.0 residents can't just hide in deep null to get their standings up in complete safety.
+ General increase of activity in low sec and a reason to go there (for some).
+ Those visiting to raise sec are obviously PVPers so greater potential for finding small engagements there, and not just 'trying to populate low sec with shiny PVE fit carebears'.

~ repeating myself now so will leave it at that.



Well said.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-01-19 03:40:03 UTC
Plutonian wrote:
I see we're being trolled by nullsec residents. That's original. Lol

You guys must be bored waiting for your next fleet to form up. Just tell that FC that 200 pilots should be enough, let's get going...
.

yea... little bored.... :(

the real problems are:
1) most of CTAs is organized in time i'm sleeping or in office.... So CTA for me is such a rare thing.
2) we killed bot in next system to our and no one wants to visit us....

So yea.... forum pew-pew Big smile

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#32 - 2012-01-19 03:42:24 UTC
Garr Earthbender wrote:
Pirates are great fun to shoot at. It's more challenging to catch someone when you can't bubble them. Being able to take gate guns AND hold the field against a larger force? awesome.

FW happens in low sec. So there's that. (for what it's worth I like FW. Small engagements FTW.) Also, no bubbles.

Also, there's no bubbles in low sec.

I don't like bubbles.

I DO like my implants.

/allmyopinionsyoudon'thavetoagreewithme.


You can buy implants from market.

Bubble != you lose your implants, with right moves in combat you can escape with pod, does not work 100% thou. Some people lose their implants in highsec and lowsec too.
Plutonian
Intransigent
#33 - 2012-01-19 04:28:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Plutonian
March rabbit wrote:
Plutonian wrote:
I see we're being trolled by nullsec residents. That's original. Lol

You guys must be bored waiting for your next fleet to form up. Just tell that FC that 200 pilots should be enough, let's get going...
.

yea... little bored.... :(

the real problems are:
1) most of CTAs is organized in time i'm sleeping or in office.... So CTA for me is such a rare thing.
2) we killed bot in next system to our and no one wants to visit us....

So yea.... forum pew-pew Big smile


Well... then you're forgiven. Lol

Nullsec. I can remember nothing going on and keeping TS on while I ran missions in high sec (mostly out of boredom). Then would get the word of 'Reds in the pipe!' Would log off, log on combat character, jump in a fighting ship, annnnnddddd....

... wait 45 minutes while the fleet composed. I'd post things in chat like "There's like 4 of 'em? Don't we have enough people?" to which I'd get the response "We play to win here!". Finally our 55 man fleet would leave, only to find the reds got tired of waiting and went home.

I honestly don't know how you guys stand it.

Edited for clarity.
cljjlc
Lost Soul Society
#34 - 2012-01-19 05:23:57 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I always believed it should be the only area you can use to pull your sec status up from negative status. The logic being Concord don't monitor null sec so shouldn't be paying bounties out there, and criminal acts anywhere in empire should be acquitted by doing ones time fighting (NPC) piracy in low sec empire.

Benefits:
+ It's not counterable with the usual carebear whine "you just want more shinies to shoot", since it only entices criminals.
+ (very) Moderate nerf to suicide ganking as you have to make up for your crimes with some time spent in low sec, but introduces high sec 'PVP'ers to low sec.
+ 0.0 residents can't just hide in deep null to get their standings up in complete safety.
+ General increase of activity in low sec and a reason to go there (for some).
+ Those visiting to raise sec are obviously PVPers so greater potential for finding small engagements there, and not just 'trying to populate low sec with shiny PVE fit carebears'.

~ repeating myself now so will leave it at that.


This is actually one of the best ideas I have heard for helping low sec. I approve this message
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-01-19 06:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Smiling Menace
Plutonian wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:
But he does have a point.

Why even bother with low sec? All I've ever seen there are blobs and gate camps (with the odd carrier thrown in) to make any activity in low sec a total waste of time. Massive risk, very little reward.

That's not to mention the sec hit should you actually fire first and kill someone.

And he's also right, you did this all yourselves. Sure, be a pirate and kill every carebear you see, just don't expect that pilot to be back anytime soon. Low sec remains a desolate waste land, gratz! Roll


All right... I'm a gonna bite.

I have, only once, ever attacked a non-combat seeking ship in low-sec. And, in my defense, that pilot was ratting in Amamake 3-1, and I thought he was bait. When it turned out he actually was a new player ratting, I advised him on how to survive, reimbursed his ship, and gave him around 10m isk. Talked him into joining Eve Uni and he was there for about six months. Last I heard he's off in WH space now.

If I encounter two frigates dueling at a planet or belt, I remove myself from the field so they won't think I'll rush in to kill the victor before he can get repped up again.

The last gate camp I participated in was to secure the gates in Fountain while the Brutally Clever Empire set up shop. Think that was back in 2007.

Pluto's current sec status is (IIRC) 4.3. My other character's sec status is 5.0. Why? Because I have no alts, no boosters, no backup, no nothing. Perfect total solo fighter. That means I'm in smaller ships. Want to know who flies the smaller ships these days? Pirates. In two months I've engaged maybe two people who were not flashy... all the rest were pirates.

I give back loot to very younger pilots who lose against me. I never ask for any loot back.

I'm not anti-pirate. Actually, I love pirates; they are the most laid back people you'll ever find in this game.

I've a really nice fit for a Merlin (which I took from Habadasshoodoo or whatever his name is) which is capable of perma-jamming an attacking Rifter. I won't use it, because it seems cheap and a shoddy thing to do to a fellow solo roaming pilot.

I have never kited anything in this game. Stop. Read that again: I have never kited anything in this game. By god if I'm going to commit to a fight, I commit.

I have participated in duels where I could not break my opponent's tank, but was fast enough to pull away from the battle. However, it seems cheap to have a duel which does not end in someone's wreck, so I plunged back in and lost the ship.

I actually don't like duels... they feel artificial to me. That's why I never ask for one. I want to hunt, and I want to be hunted. If I'm facing two or three very young players, I'd rather they gang up on me than for me to engage them one on one.

And should you think I'm just the oddball out there, I do run into people just like myself. Not very often anymore, but it happens.


The reason I'm telling you this is: Your perceptions of lowsec are wrong.


Sorry, not perception...FACT!

I have seen the hi sec choke points camped to oblivion...FACT!

I have seen -10's blow away very single ship that comes through...FACT!

Nearly all were carebears looking to try something new....FACT!

None ever came back...FACT!

I have seen a small pirate gang get take apart by a small T1 Cruiser roam, then they (the pirates) drop 3 carriers on them...FACT!

I could go on all day with everything that's wrong with low sec but why bother? Everyone knows what's wrong.

You are very much the exception in low. All I ever see are bait ships, blobs and general asshattery from the resident -10's.

@ Lady Spank

I see what you are saying and I understand your points but that will still leave low sec a desolate waste land.

The only people there will be the ones you currently have. There is still no incentive for anyone in hi sec or null sec to even bother going there.

My thought was that low was to be just the same as hi sec with added extras to benefit from the risk but EVE players being EVE players, it's more a perpetual battleground with no real easy way in for the carebears.

I actually think the sec hit should be even higher if you engage in low sec. Make the gate/station guns do even more damage so that the asshats that think PvP consisting of ganking noobs and haulers on gates have a very very hard time doing this.

There you go, as long as noobs/carebears stick to gates and stations, they will be able to use low sec with a little bit of a security blanket. If they want to then try PvP, they have the rest of the space in low that isn't a gate or a station to play around with.

If you combine this with your ideas, then there is a reason for more than just PvP'ers/Pirates/Asshats to be in low sec.

Just my thoughts as a noob once upon a time in low sec.
Plutonian
Intransigent
#36 - 2012-01-19 06:22:09 UTC
cljjlc wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
I always believed it should be the only area you can use to pull your sec status up from negative status. The logic being Concord don't monitor null sec so shouldn't be paying bounties out there, and criminal acts anywhere in empire should be acquitted by doing ones time fighting (NPC) piracy in low sec empire.

Benefits:
+ It's not counterable with the usual carebear whine "you just want more shinies to shoot", since it only entices criminals.
+ (very) Moderate nerf to suicide ganking as you have to make up for your crimes with some time spent in low sec, but introduces high sec 'PVP'ers to low sec.
+ 0.0 residents can't just hide in deep null to get their standings up in complete safety.
+ General increase of activity in low sec and a reason to go there (for some).
+ Those visiting to raise sec are obviously PVPers so greater potential for finding small engagements there, and not just 'trying to populate low sec with shiny PVE fit carebears'.

~ repeating myself now so will leave it at that.


This is actually one of the best ideas I have heard for helping low sec. I approve this message


It's a fantastic idea. But good luck getting null bounties removed. The whinage would be... shall we say, significant? Lol
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-01-19 06:32:20 UTC
Plutonian wrote:
cljjlc wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
I always believed it should be the only area you can use to pull your sec status up from negative status. The logic being Concord don't monitor null sec so shouldn't be paying bounties out there, and criminal acts anywhere in empire should be acquitted by doing ones time fighting (NPC) piracy in low sec empire.

Benefits:
+ It's not counterable with the usual carebear whine "you just want more shinies to shoot", since it only entices criminals.
+ (very) Moderate nerf to suicide ganking as you have to make up for your crimes with some time spent in low sec, but introduces high sec 'PVP'ers to low sec.
+ 0.0 residents can't just hide in deep null to get their standings up in complete safety.
+ General increase of activity in low sec and a reason to go there (for some).
+ Those visiting to raise sec are obviously PVPers so greater potential for finding small engagements there, and not just 'trying to populate low sec with shiny PVE fit carebears'.

~ repeating myself now so will leave it at that.


This is actually one of the best ideas I have heard for helping low sec. I approve this message


It's a fantastic idea. But good luck getting null bounties removed. The whinage would be... shall we say, significant? Lol


If there was an alternative to ratting for null sec dwellers to make isk directly from the space they hold, then I doubt there would be much resistance to this idea.

Holding space actually gains you very little reward but a ton of bills to be paid.
Plutonian
Intransigent
#38 - 2012-01-19 07:47:43 UTC
@Smiling Menace:


I won't deny that stuff exists, but it can be worked around. Bait can be popped before the trap springs (or simply avoided... they're generally not too subtle). Camps can be seen on the map or run in fast frigs. Smartie-BS can be scanned from gate scanpoints. Blobs can generally be avoided by single pilots (we're far more maneuverable).

But I would not remove the camps, bait ships, blobs, pirates, or even those annoying ECM-using f**ks for anything. Because it's the challenge that makes lowsec fun. When I'm in lowsec I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that everyone wants to kill me. It's actually rather comforting... I don't have to worry about who my enemies are, they're listed right there in local. Lol

Tonight I had to move exactly one (1) metric buttload of researched BPO's to an Empire hub. Eight jumps through lowsec. Five jumps through Empire. Guess which part I sweated? The lowsec portion was done in a standard fighting Rifter. The Empire leg done in a tanked battleship with sweaty palms. I was safer in lowsec!

I don't expect the true 'carebear' to ever come to lowsec. Like the Joker said, "Decent people shouldn't live here... they'd be happier somewhere else." But for those looking for some excitement, and I feel there are many in Empire who feel this way, lowsec is a great place to find some fun. (Jeeze... I saved the Damsel for three damn years and she keeps going back to that damn brothel!! WTF?!)

I believe Eve needs a PvP outlet that doesn't require the responsibilities of nullsec. Currently, unless you're willing to wardec innocent non-PvP'ers in Empire (which I'd never do) or can-flip miners (which I'd also never do) or suffer the artificial-ality of duels (is that even a word?), you go to lowsec for a good fight. That's what CCP needs to focus on when dealing with the area.
Johnny Punisher
Avanto
Hole Control
#39 - 2012-01-19 08:52:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Punisher
Smiling Menace wrote:
Plutonian wrote:


It's a fantastic idea. But good luck getting null bounties removed. The whinage would be... shall we say, significant? Lol


If there was an alternative to ratting for null sec dwellers to make isk directly from the space they hold, then I doubt there would be much resistance to this idea.

Holding space actually gains you very little reward but a ton of bills to be paid.


I don't see Lady Spank saying anything about removing bounties, just sec status. Only receiving sec status from lowsec rats is best idea of improving lowsec I've ever heard.

*edit: ah nevermind he did... anyway, I would let nullsec keep the bounties but leave the sec status boost to be lowsec-thing only!
Bent Barrel
#40 - 2012-01-19 09:30:10 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I always believed it should be the only area you can use to pull your sec status up from negative status. The logic being Concord don't monitor null sec so shouldn't be paying bounties out there, and criminal acts anywhere in empire should be acquitted by doing ones time fighting (NPC) piracy in low sec empire.

Benefits:
+ It's not counterable with the usual carebear whine "you just want more shinies to shoot", since it only entices criminals.
+ (very) Moderate nerf to suicide ganking as you have to make up for your crimes with some time spent in low sec, but introduces high sec 'PVP'ers to low sec.
+ 0.0 residents can't just hide in deep null to get their standings up in complete safety.
+ General increase of activity in low sec and a reason to go there (for some).
+ Those visiting to raise sec are obviously PVPers so greater potential for finding small engagements there, and not just 'trying to populate low sec with shiny PVE fit carebears'.

~ repeating myself now so will leave it at that.


This and remove bounties from non NPC zerosec. That way the zerosec income will become mainly production and trade (as it should be) and move the mid level NPC bounties to lowsec. Take a hint from sleepers. No bounties, everything is in the salvage/loot.