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Sick of being a FC's Drone
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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2016-11-24 17:28:34 UTC
Anyone YouCan wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Why the hell you are flying with FCs in a big fleet as an F1 drone if you don't like it?? Just do what you like and is fun for you, and stop complaining about not having the balls to take on your own fate.



I actually don't. My main is not that type of pilot. But that gameplay is unavoidable.


Sure it is, there are lots of people who have not been in big fleet fights....

This problem is not CCPs to solve; it is your problem to solve.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2016-11-24 17:29:49 UTC
Jaxon Grylls wrote:
OP, in your numerous posts to this thread you keep coming back to the point that being in a huge fleet getting yelled at by an FC is inevitable. How so?

I've been playing EVE on and off for over 10 years. I have never been in a fleet fight nor do I wish to. You say that fleet fighting is the "end game", maybe for you, it certainly isn't for me. As others here have said if you don't like that aspect of the game don't take part in it. I like making things so I'm an industrialist. You might be better exploring or living in WH space. I don't know. EVE is big enough that you can avoid things that you dislike so why all the anger?


Or just being a solo hunter in NS looking for idiots to kill.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
#23 - 2016-11-24 17:39:08 UTC
Maybe you should... look elsewhere for fun? You are describing one type of fight in one scenario. I've only been in 2, maybe 3, large battles in 5 years. If this email types of fights arent your thing, there are other areas of the game with combat. I participate in a lot of small fleets that are micromanagement heavy. It's a grough effort to keep ourselves safe.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2016-11-24 18:16:24 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
3) I know nothing about large battles in Null. Its just an area of EVE ive not yet gotten around to, but I find it hard to beleive that even the largest battle would not benefit from more granular commands, command structure and specialisation han simply calling F1 targets and broacasting for reps.

A 1000 man fleet operation (that's 4 full fleets) would just get too convoluted with more fleet commanders. One fleet with 250 pilots and one commander is usually more effective than 5 fleets with 50 ships each and one commander each. The reason for this is that with the number of logistics and FAXes on field in such a situation, it is prudent to shoot a target with everything you have, so you can kill it before the logistics can respond. If you split up your damage, you may not be able to break the target against the reps, end up killing slower than the enemy fleet does and lose the fight.

The FC will therefore have his mainline DPS ships anchor on him, so he knows if everyone is in range, and then call a target to be murdered as quickly as possible. Rinse, repeat.

Of course, even in those big fleet engagements (that are as has been stated completely avoidable and certainly not "the end game") this only applies to mainline DPS ships. Logistics, Tackle, Electronic Warfare, Command Ships and Command Destroyers all have more demanding tasks on their hands. So, even if OP believes that he needs to take part in the null blob, he could just opt to not be a braindead F1 monkey and fly something interesting.
Fatima Foont
#25 - 2016-11-24 18:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Fatima Foont
Playing 10 years...never in a big fleet fight. Same reason I did not join the RL army. Don't want to be an FC drone. Any large force needs to be given orders.


There is no friggn "end game."
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#26 - 2016-11-24 18:26:13 UTC
Anyone YouCan wrote:
When everything else is stripped away and you've got all your empire and ships and you've built you fortress in the stars it's this game play style that it all comes down to.


So what you're saying is that if you ignore every other playstyle that exists in EVE, aside from the one you don't like, that EVE isn't very good? Seems to me like a failure of your imagination rather than a failure on CCP's part.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Puss 1n Boots
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2016-11-24 19:00:59 UTC
Anyone YouCan wrote:
It's entirely CCP that needs to solve it.
Because sooner or later people get sick of this being the END game.. When everything else is stripped away and you've got all your empire and ships and you've built you fortress in the stars it's this game play style that it all comes down to. And it needs to change. Because if you go ask people who played Eve for months, years even a decade and left i would wager that you can with exception of Real life reasons it's this crap tastic way of playing that they have got sick of. And it's down to CCP to sort it the hell out. Eve pvp is fantastic in solo or small groups. It is amazing in brawl engagements. But as soon as it becomes a big fight between two doctrines (the most efficient way to win) it is boring as crap. Often in tidi that compounds the issue and just makes you wish you never came along. You go into ANY big alliance and see if they dont constantly struggle to get people in fleets in the right ships doing as their FC tells them. Why? BECAUSE NO ONE LIKES THOSE FLEETS. Yes they are the most efficient.
Yes that is the current mechanic.

NO that does not mean it is right or FUN. Until CCP fix it no matter the gimmick the game will be in decline. Because only fun games grow.


You are wrong. It is not a mechanic. Fitting your ship is a mechanic, but not doctrines. They are player made. And your complain about tidi, it is your right to create a new kind of quantum super server and better transmitter than fiber-optic communications.
I guess than we will be able to fight big battles without tidi.

Go ahead and do it. I would appreciate your efforts.
Vigirr
#28 - 2016-11-24 20:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Vigirr
Large fleets are for people who enjoy being a cubicle worker: to hide in the clutter and behind numbers, being as lazy and as unproductive as they can get away with. FCs know this so they adapt their tone of voice and message to a point where the lowest common denominator can deal with it without busting a braincell.

It's quantity over quality.



If you can't stand being told what to do like a special needs 5 year old here's a top tip: don't be in a massive alliance. Instead choose quality over quantity.
Dominoe Harvee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2016-11-24 20:25:27 UTC
2/10

Only because your troll made it to 2 pages.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#30 - 2016-11-24 22:42:37 UTC
Vigirr wrote:
Large fleets are for people who enjoy being a cubicle worker: to hide in the clutter and behind numbers, being as lazy and as unproductive as they can get away with. FCs know this so they adapt their tone of voice and message to a point where the lowest common denominator can deal with it without busting a braincell.

It's quantity over quality.



If you can't stand being told what to do like a special needs 5 year old here's a top tip: don't be in a massive alliance. Instead choose quality over quantity.

LMFAO so much this!! I used to call it herding cats or pulling chicken teeth. Ive talked to so many CEOs and leadership over the years and this is the number one cause of burnout.Lol

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Beyonder Herald II
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-11-25 06:02:01 UTC
Anyone YouCan wrote:
Any one else sick of just being a glorified drone of the FC in large fleet fights?


I guess I don't get it. I don't like the activity you describe either, which is why I am not part of a large corp or alliance. Your issue is easy to fix - leave and either find some much smaller corp, or fly solo.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2016-11-25 06:12:16 UTC
Anyone YouCan wrote:
Any one else sick of just being a glorified drone of the FC in large fleet fights?
Follow the leader, "shoot target blehbleh". "Secondary BlehBleh". "Don't go off anchor BLEH BLEH BLEH". "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING IN MY FLEET WITH THAT SHIP"

And my favorite "BROADCAST FOR REPS FASTER YOUR NOT PAYING ATTENTION ENOUGH" When the enemy are locking and alpha'ing our ships off field in under 3 server ticks.

Fix this crap CCP before all these new alphas realize just how crap fleet fights above 10v10 are. EVE is nothing like it's trailers.


Player corps and alliances, and what they expect from their members, are not under CCP's control. If you don't like the corp you're in, then find another one.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2016-11-25 06:17:06 UTC
Anyone YouCan wrote:
It's entirely CCP that needs to solve it.
Because sooner or later people get sick of this being the END game.. When everything else is stripped away and you've got all your empire and ships and you've built you fortress in the stars it's this game play style that it all comes down to. And it needs to change. Because if you go ask people who played Eve for months, years even a decade and left i would wager that you can with exception of Real life reasons it's this crap tastic way of playing that they have got sick of. And it's down to CCP to sort it the hell out. Eve pvp is fantastic in solo or small groups. It is amazing in brawl engagements. But as soon as it becomes a big fight between two doctrines (the most efficient way to win) it is boring as crap. Often in tidi that compounds the issue and just makes you wish you never came along. You go into ANY big alliance and see if they dont constantly struggle to get people in fleets in the right ships doing as their FC tells them. Why? BECAUSE NO ONE LIKES THOSE FLEETS. Yes they are the most efficient.
Yes that is the current mechanic.

NO that does not mean it is right or FUN. Until CCP fix it no matter the gimmick the game will be in decline. Because only fun games grow.


Lots of people find this game very fun. Lots of people love these fleets, or they wouldn't exist. At the end of the day, this game is designed for players to create the content, and this is what it looks like. If you want a themepark ride, there are many out there to choose from.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#34 - 2016-11-25 06:32:37 UTC
You can choose to fill roles other than the F1 'drone', as you call it, in large fleets. Many simply prefer the damage role but you should look at these:

1. Logistics. For some reason this is what the healing class is called in EVE. (Confusingly, actual logistics (moving stuff about) is also very important.) Fleet logi is very important and can be very challenging to do well.

2. Scouting. Be one of the people who scouts ahead of the fleet either looking for targets or making sure there is nothing nasty waiting for the main fleet.

3. Interdiction. Fly interdictors in nullsec to bubble enemy fleets and strategically bubble gates, warp-ins etc.

4. Fast tackle. Self explanatory.

5. Utility. Fly a long-range webbing ship, or long-range tackle.

6. Boosting. Fly a Command Destroyer with the links your fleet needs. This is now an active role.

It is your choice. If you don't have the flexibility to fly these sorts of roles in your corp then leave it and find a better one.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
mkint
#35 - 2016-11-25 06:44:08 UTC
Puss 1n Boots wrote:
Anyone YouCan wrote:
It's entirely CCP that needs to solve it.
Because sooner or later people get sick of this being the END game.. When everything else is stripped away and you've got all your empire and ships and you've built you fortress in the stars it's this game play style that it all comes down to. And it needs to change. Because if you go ask people who played Eve for months, years even a decade and left i would wager that you can with exception of Real life reasons it's this crap tastic way of playing that they have got sick of. And it's down to CCP to sort it the hell out. Eve pvp is fantastic in solo or small groups. It is amazing in brawl engagements. But as soon as it becomes a big fight between two doctrines (the most efficient way to win) it is boring as crap. Often in tidi that compounds the issue and just makes you wish you never came along. You go into ANY big alliance and see if they dont constantly struggle to get people in fleets in the right ships doing as their FC tells them. Why? BECAUSE NO ONE LIKES THOSE FLEETS. Yes they are the most efficient.
Yes that is the current mechanic.

NO that does not mean it is right or FUN. Until CCP fix it no matter the gimmick the game will be in decline. Because only fun games grow.


You are wrong. It is not a mechanic. Fitting your ship is a mechanic, but not doctrines. They are player made. And your complain about tidi, it is your right to create a new kind of quantum super server and better transmitter than fiber-optic communications.
I guess than we will be able to fight big battles without tidi.

Go ahead and do it. I would appreciate your efforts.

First rule of economics is people respond to incentives. CCP makes the incentives. CCP makes the $ and risks losing it. So, yes, it's CCP's responsibility to make the game feel rewarding. Assuming they want to keep being a company.

My opinion is that sov needs to be on the corp level (if not removed entirely) instead of the alliance level, that alliances should NOT be the primary social entity in EVE. Imagine breaking down an alliance 1 corp at a time. Imagine absorbing an enemy alliance. Imagine splinter groups and infighting. Imagine alliances having incentives to field fleets where initiative and innovation matter.

But this is EVE... where the players would defend something they hate (fozziesov) if it means an excuse to be bastards to someone who agrees with them.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2016-11-25 06:57:38 UTC
hm....
The problem: OP does not like big fleets AND/OR has bad FC.
OPs solution: "CCP should fix". What do they should fix? Unclear.

I like to be in big fleet mindlessly pressing F1 and paying more attention to my family Lol I have enough of stuff to care about in my RL to not solve problems in the game too. 15 years late to prove anything to anyone (seriously what all these 'solo' and 'small gang' are about if not for bragging rights?).

To each their own i guess.

Even if CCP must "fix it" i see nothing they can actually do. Players will always choose the most effective way. Until we have proper RL-like mechanics fleets only get better with size.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2016-11-25 07:27:00 UTC
Being a Null sec Drone is as end game as a minimum wage dead end job is in real life.

If that is all you aim for that is all you are going to get.

And that is about as much a problem for your boss in Real Life as this is CCPs.

If you don't like it find something better, more exciting even if you have to read up how to do it and then just try.

The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.

After all we are not just players, we are customers.

Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#38 - 2016-11-25 07:47:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
I tend to prefer small fleet fights, however I have been in some stonking large fights too, some as a drone and others as one of the strategic thinkers which I can tell you really adds to the fun of the battle.

I have to say one of my favourite F1 monkey battles was when a certain excellent Black Legion FC known to many FC'd a fleet of Intrepid Crossing Maalstroms against the Goons in a CSAA defence., to say that it was an epic fight for me was an understatement.

Also you can make a decision to save your ass, one fail FC in Intrepid Crossing lead us into a meat grinder against Razor. Me and a corp mate both looked at the situation and made a break for the bubble edge so that when the FC said bail we could, not the others of course, I did actually die a bit later because I had that bug where my client refused to accept any commands and had to re-log, as I had the aggression timer and they had probers I logged and restarted and warped back to the gate as they jumped through having cleared the field, my friend got away...

You can play as an F1 monkey with brains if you have a clue what the hell is going on and that can add to your enjoyment, I hope this suggestion helps.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Salvos Rhoska
#39 - 2016-11-25 15:07:44 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
3) I know nothing about large battles in Null. Its just an area of EVE ive not yet gotten around to, but I find it hard to beleive that even the largest battle would not benefit from more granular commands, command structure and specialisation han simply calling F1 targets and broacasting for reps.

A 1000 man fleet operation (that's 4 full fleets) would just get too convoluted with more fleet commanders. One fleet with 250 pilots and one commander is usually more effective than 5 fleets with 50 ships each and one commander each. The reason for this is that with the number of logistics and FAXes on field in such a situation, it is prudent to shoot a target with everything you have, so you can kill it before the logistics can respond. If you split up your damage, you may not be able to break the target against the reps, end up killing slower than the enemy fleet does and lose the fight.

The FC will therefore have his mainline DPS ships anchor on him, so he knows if everyone is in range, and then call a target to be murdered as quickly as possible. Rinse, repeat.

Of course, even in those big fleet engagements (that are as has been stated completely avoidable and certainly not "the end game") this only applies to mainline DPS ships. Logistics, Tackle, Electronic Warfare, Command Ships and Command Destroyers all have more demanding tasks on their hands. So, even if OP believes that he needs to take part in the null blob, he could just opt to not be a braindead F1 monkey and fly something interesting.


Ill take your word for it. Thanks for your insight.

So, OP, follow his advice (and mine). Specialize and involve yourself in a fleet function other than F1.
Or stay out of it, and try running in smaller engagements or in different settings of space.

We are still waiting on your suggestions of how to fix the problem you address.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#40 - 2016-11-25 15:30:41 UTC
Anyone YouCan wrote:
Any one else sick of just being a glorified drone of the FC in large fleet fights?
Follow the leader, "shoot target blehbleh". "Secondary BlehBleh". "Don't go off anchor BLEH BLEH BLEH". "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING IN MY FLEET WITH THAT SHIP"

And my favorite "BROADCAST FOR REPS FASTER YOUR NOT PAYING ATTENTION ENOUGH" When the enemy are locking and alpha'ing our ships off field in under 3 server ticks.

Fix this crap CCP before all these new alphas realize just how crap fleet fights above 10v10 are. EVE is nothing like it's trailers.


You are a month old character with no kills or losses. Until you post with a main character, I will continue assuming you have never actually been in a fight, meaning I can ignore anything you say.
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