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INCURSIONS - NERF SUPPORTED BY CCP AND VEILED AS A USER-COMMITTED EVENT

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-01-19 00:27:56 UTC
xxanjoahir wrote:
isk into the market is good - people having a good time spending making the economy spin....

As long as it doesn't cause inflation, sure. Which is why it needs to be controlled.

xxanjoahir wrote:
But hey never mind about the goons who control a large portion of the games biggest passive isk element and the fact they have so much influence in the game to rise nitro price so high that running poses for some become un profitable...

As to "goons who control a large portion of the game's biggest passive isk element", consider this: We're telling CCP to fix it.

And please, if you're going to whine about the price of isotopes, at least get it right, it isn't nitrogen isotopes, it's oxygen isotopes. And the only reason it's so high right now is because of market bots.

xxanjoahir wrote:
i seem to be having the same conversation with you zimmy boy.... high sec is high sec you want people back in null buff it so people may find living in null more fun than what it is atm

There are lots of things that needs to be done to incentivize people to move into nullsec.

xxanjoahir wrote:
with your 60 man + blobs running around killing the 11 man incursion fleets that have just spent an hour to go pvp...

Oh man, 60 people is a blob now? I guess you'd better stay away from the more normal fleet fights then.

Gaven Blands wrote:
Heres the thing, if ccp moves all incursions to low sec 90% of people currently running them wont bother. The only thing it will do is make all the low sec dwellers very happy and thats it. As for people stating there is no risk, try running incursions and see that without logi support, you would die very quickly. CCP needs to be very careful when balancing incursions, if they get it wrong their idea for a new system of players working together will be over. This will be followed by the return to level 4 farming.

Nobody's talking about moving incursions to low sec. Don't be a drama queen.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
ShipToaster
#62 - 2012-01-19 00:37:17 UTC
I wish they would fix the appetite of the forum.

Juliana Stinger wrote:
"621 billion ISK is paid out by CONCORD every week from Incursions" impressive amount of isk they are making.


Even more impressive when you realise that the actual number could well be far higher than this exceptionally conservative estimate.

Assume three fleets per VG system making an average of 100mil per person per hour. That is 9 billion per incursion from the three VG's alone each hour. Add in another billion for those running assault or headquarters fleets. Double this as there are normally at least two incursions being run at a time. 20 billion an hour for a conservative 160 hours is 3200 billion a week.

I did round the numbers to make the calculation easy to follow but even this is a conservative estimate as there is more likely to be three incursions being farmed rather than one, more likely to be forty sites run per system per hour not thirty, this estimate does not include loyalty points which can add five percent minimum to fifteen percent for those who convert well. Only CCP would know the real amount and there is no chance they will reveal this dirty little secret.

I would put the raw ISK injection into EVE from incursions at closer to a conservative 3000 billion a week. CCP economists say this is not a serious problem? No incursion runner I know pays for their account now (unless they paid in advance and are waiting for it to run out), every one of them plexes it with under five hours grinding per month. There was a statement that CCP want lower plex prices as people are unlikely to pay for their accounts using other methods but this is a problem inherent with incursions as why should people pay real money for gametime when getting a plex is so damn easy and it is relatively painless to grind those billions a week?

To put this in perspective I will give myself as an example. I currently have seven accounts. It costs me under 3.5 billion a week to plex them. Seventy percent of this comes from passive or the most basic activities taking less than five minutes a day. Three hours of incursion grinding a week lets me pay for seven accounts. It would only be nine hours a week to pay for seven accounts with no other source of income. Working as intended?

.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#63 - 2012-01-19 00:42:46 UTC
ShipToaster wrote:
Good post


Soon, Machariels are the new rifters.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#64 - 2012-01-19 00:52:16 UTC
I think the idea of inflation in EVE is scaremongering for a number of reasons (not delibarelty scaremongering just a misunderstanding of the diffrence between EVE economy and RL )

Some points to note

1. A lot of things are NPC sold and will only change price if CCP change them.

Which means mineral value is constant defined by price/minerals you refine from an object

2. 'Crafting' is rediculously easy in EVE. So most items will be sold for about there mineral value.

By my estimates there is no possible way anything but a small percentage of what is produced is destroyed in battle, meaning most of what is created are just 'chips' for the market PVP game.

3. What seems to be happening in EVE is really deflation. Infaltion being you have the same money but things cost more and relativly your worse of. In EVE things cost mostly the same all the time and we have more money therefore we are relativly better of.

As there is no real scarcity of resources in EVE inflation is pretty unlikely really.


[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
xxanjoahir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2012-01-19 01:07:39 UTC  |  Edited by: xxanjoahir
Quote:
Which is why it needs to be controlled.


Well its not, inflation is doing well so you can toss that statement into the air with all your other predictions. facts say its doing good.


Quote:

As to "goons who control a large portion of the game's biggest passive isk element", consider this: We're telling CCP to fix it

And please, if you're going to whine about the price of isotopes, at least get it right, it isn't nitrogen isotopes, it's oxygen isotopes. And the only reason it's so high right now is because of market bots..


OOPPPS jesus man - Oxygen then stop being a drama queen over a mistake.... fact is - your ******* the game up to get your own way including wanting to fix tech goo which i find very hard to believe. What you going to do when ccp tell you to go toss a sheep in the air with tech, are you going to start shooting your own poses in disgust that you didnt get your own way?

Quote:
There are lots of things that needs to be done to incentivize people to move into nullsec.


The first would be to give small entities a much bigger opportunity to occupy a piece.

Quote:
with your 60 man + blobs running around killing the 11 man incursion fleets that have just spent an hour to go pvp...
Oh man, 60 people is a blob now? I guess you'd better stay away from the more normal fleet fights then.


It is when the only targets you are killing are 10 bcs... I left the blocks for the reason that getting on KM's is not the end game... being able to feel like what i did in fleet matters is. you might want to write that sentence down....ill say it again.... being able to feel like what i did in fleet matters... you don't get close to that feeling in a goon fleet.

All you are doing is trying to put goons as the "light" the "alliance that fixed the game", you see VG as a being too easy and no risk, "please change this ccp and in return we will let you nerf tech which by the way Alchemy reactions have never been proven to be profitable"... yeah good one....

A potential solution could be to stop the shinys from being able to enter vg sites.... traditional bs logi setups would get through the sites much slower.... that would cheer you stupid goons up.
Phenethylamine
Nex quod Principatus
#66 - 2012-01-19 01:12:06 UTC
I think your fundamental failure is thinking that just because a game is a sandbox somebody implied a promise to you that the other kids aren't allowed to kick down your sand castle.

It's a sandbox precisely because other players have the freedom to interact with what you do in ways other than those you approve of.

You don't dislike that it's a sandbox. You dislike that it isn't your sandbox, and that complaint implies that you do not actually want a real sandbox.
Cyzlaki
BRAWLS DEEP
HYPE-TRAIN
#67 - 2012-01-19 01:19:05 UTC
Confirming we are destroying bears' income
met worst
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-01-19 01:26:43 UTC
Phenethylamine wrote:
I think your fundamental failure is thinking that just because a game is a sandbox somebody implied a promise to you that the other kids aren't allowed to kick down your sand castle.

It's a sandbox precisely because other players have the freedom to interact with what you do in ways other than those you approve of.

You don't dislike that it's a sandbox. You dislike that it isn't your sandbox, and that complaint implies that you do not actually want a real sandbox.

This^^

CCP is NOT involved. An ISD reported it. Regardless, Eve IS a sandbox and pissing people off is PART of the fun.

Just as you have every right to do Incursions, others have as much right to stop you.

- Deal with it.
- Stop crying about it.
- You can "protect" the mothership with gank squads (certain irony in that).
- WDec Darius and whoevertheotherpersonis and go hard.
- Do lowsec Incursions and do away with WDecs.
- Deal with it.
- Stop crying about it.
- Take all those shineys and take Branch and score some Tech.
- Deal with it.
- Stop crying about it.
- emoragequit

Psssttt. But Darius? Why? Election year? As bad as Mittens - wait for a "popular" cause and ride the dragon. Sigh.
xxanjoahir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-01-19 01:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: xxanjoahir
ShipToaster wrote:
I wish they would fix the appetite of the forum.

Juliana Stinger wrote:
"621 billion ISK is paid out by CONCORD every week from Incursions" impressive amount of isk they are making.


Even more impressive when you realise that the actual number could well be far higher than this exceptionally conservative estimate.

Assume three fleets per VG system making an average of 100mil per person per hour. That is 9 billion per incursion from the three VG's alone each hour. Add in another billion for those running assault or headquarters fleets. Double this as there are normally at least two incursions being run at a time. 20 billion an hour for a conservative 160 hours is 3200 billion a week.

I did round the numbers to make the calculation easy to follow but even this is a conservative estimate as there is more likely to be three incursions being farmed rather than one, more likely to be forty sites run per system per hour not thirty, this estimate does not include loyalty points which can add five percent minimum to fifteen percent for those who convert well. Only CCP would know the real amount and there is no chance they will reveal this dirty little secret.

I would put the raw ISK injection into EVE from incursions at closer to a conservative 3000 billion a week. CCP economists say this is not a serious problem? No incursion runner I know pays for their account now (unless they paid in advance and are waiting for it to run out), every one of them plexes it with under five hours grinding per month. There was a statement that CCP want lower plex prices as people are unlikely to pay for their accounts using other methods but this is a problem inherent with incursions as why should people pay real money for gametime when getting a plex is so damn easy and it is relatively painless to grind those billions a week?

To put this in perspective I will give myself as an example. I currently have seven accounts. It costs me under 3.5 billion a week to plex them. Seventy percent of this comes from passive or the most basic activities taking less than five minutes a day. Three hours of incursion grinding a week lets me pay for seven accounts. It would only be nine hours a week to pay for seven accounts with no other source of income. Working as intended?


Not sure i follow - but you make 2.5 bill in 35 minutes work and your moaning at people who are living the sandbox making 100 mil an hour? (by the way 100m is way over estimate, those fleets are the shiny pimped up mach nightmare fleets, traditional fleets make approx 60m which is about on par with null ratting)

Its seriously takes the **** that the CSM says there is no risk in these things.... thats BS there is absoloutely no risk in null sec with all the intel channels and being able to complete a lot of dungeons solo who needs 3 logi's in fleet if there is no risk right?
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-01-19 01:35:43 UTC
Not seeing CCP's support of that report. Kass can do as she/he pleases. If the idea behind Incursions is to spawn the mom to kill the mom, then working as intended.

Don't ban me, bro!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-01-19 01:44:12 UTC
xxanjoahir wrote:
your ******* the game up to get your own way

What you mean is, we shot ice miners because their reactions were hilariously whiny, they were easily scammed, and it had a hilarious effect on the price of oxytopes (of which we of course capitalized on. duh.).

xxanjoahir wrote:
including wanting to fix tech goo which i find very hard to believe. What you going to do when ccp tell you to go toss a sheep in the air with tech, are you going to start shooting your own poses in disgust that you didnt get your own way?

It's been said publically multiple times that we're telling CCP to fix tech. It makes no sense that an R32 is more expensive than R64s.

As to "get our way with tech rebalance", just how stupid do you think we are? Of course we'd continue to exploit them, we'd be positively ******** if we didn't. Unless, of course, you think we'd actually unironically think "oh we'd better not exploit tech because it'd be dishonourable to do so. Our e-bushido backbone. :(".

xxanjoahir wrote:
being able to feel like what i did in fleet matters... you don't get close to that feeling in a goon fleet.

My drive for being in CFC fleets is how many inane tears we can wring out of people. I don't give a flying **** if my contribution ~matters~ (I know it does, but it's not like the fleets live and die on account of my performance), I just want the tears.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-01-19 01:46:23 UTC
xxanjoahir wrote:
no risk in null sec

Fallacy.

xxanjoahir wrote:
who needs 3 logi's in fleet if there is no risk right?

So you're trying to tell us incursions are unpredictable? Because the number of logis doesn't tell us anything about how dangerous something is.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
met worst
Doomheim
#73 - 2012-01-19 01:48:27 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
xxanjoahir wrote:
no risk in null sec

Fallacy.

Fallacy.
xxanjoahir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2012-01-19 01:48:51 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Not seeing CCP's support of that report. Kass can do as she/he pleases. If the idea behind Incursions is to spawn the mom to kill the mom, then working as intended.



I dont see what the issue is- - people are killing moms so it ends the incursion.... no different that letting someone running 4 spawns in a DED plex and Ninja killing the esculation rat...

Strikes me that the CSM is made up or r-tards from null sec entities....jee i wonder if someone who played the game in high sec should be part of that list....

or perhaps certain types of game stlyes....

the 50+ hour a week player (n/l/h/wh)
the 25+ hour a week player (n/l/h/wh)
the 10+ (n/l/h/wh)
the 5+ (n/l/h/wh)

People who really understand how the game is played rather than the "boxed" bitter vet.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#75 - 2012-01-19 01:59:13 UTC
xxanjoahir wrote:
[(by the way 100m is way over estimate, those fleets are the shiny pimped up mach nightmare fleets, traditional fleets make approx 60m which is about on par with null ratting)


Actually the estimate is a fair average. SF's make 150mil/ph and even higher on a good day.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
xxanjoahir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2012-01-19 02:01:38 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
xxanjoahir wrote:
no risk in null sec

Fallacy.

xxanjoahir wrote:
who needs 3 logi's in fleet if there is no risk right?

So you're trying to tell us incursions are unpredictable? Because the number of logis doesn't tell us anything about how dangerous something is.


see there is your ignorance...

split dps, jammed logi, dc, awoxers can all happen in a vg fleet, I am surprised you **** ups havent come down here to do that just yet since you have made it clear you want to **** the game up as much as possible.

yes it happens in null sec but i dont see (a conservative estimate) 1bill ratting fleets being at much risk in a sanctum.

Yes they are unpredictable - they become more predictable when you get 11 people together who you trust and would let baby sit your kids.....By the way - not seen you in an incursion site yet but im looking forward to being your logi partner do bring your shiny ship we have over 100 in local and running vg sites has been tough tonight so i need the extra output becuase i do not want to loose contests....

regards.

xxanjoahir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2012-01-19 02:09:11 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
xxanjoahir wrote:
[(by the way 100m is way over estimate, those fleets are the shiny pimped up mach nightmare fleets, traditional fleets make approx 60m which is about on par with null ratting)


Actually the estimate is a fair average. SF's make 150mil/ph and even higher on a good day.


Bolded the important bit.

depends on your time zone...on a good run a traditional bs shield fleet will make about 80m max an hour. - there is nothing wrong with that there seems to be a big "high sec have no right to make that sort of isk"....

but in my timezones when i run these in our corp in a traditional shield bs fleet with 80+ in local then 60m is about right.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2012-01-19 02:12:23 UTC
xxanjoahir wrote:
see there is your ignorance...

split dps, jammed logi, dc, awoxers can all happen in a vg fleet, I am surprised you **** ups havent come down here to do that just yet since you have made it clear you want to **** the game up as much as possible.

If you seriously think that is "dangerous", then by all means, stay as far away from any actual PVP as you can.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
xxanjoahir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2012-01-19 02:18:51 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
xxanjoahir wrote:
see there is your ignorance...

split dps, jammed logi, dc, awoxers can all happen in a vg fleet, I am surprised you **** ups havent come down here to do that just yet since you have made it clear you want to **** the game up as much as possible.

If you seriously think that is "dangerous", then by all means, stay as far away from any actual PVP as you can.


Oh dear zimmy - i am yet to find out, since your only game style is to create tears, in fleets containing more numbers than what the mojority of alliances have as members, what you consider as "dangerous"....
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-01-19 02:21:55 UTC
The majority of alliances have less than 300-400 people? vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat