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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Sensor Strength Implants/mods/boosters vs. ECM.

Author
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-11-28 09:53:55 UTC
As currently implemented, the faction sensor strength implants are drastically underpowered in comparison to the ECM they are designed to counter. Wearing full set of LG Talons while flying a Drake, still only take the takes the chance to jam down to (approximately) 50% from a single gravimetric jammer from a Recon V Falcon. HG Talons, which I would consider an unreasonable cost for sustained 0.0/frig PvP bring this down to 33%. This is flying the race who's characteristics include high innate sensor strength.

So at the cost of six implant slots, you're looking at one jammer locking you out for 20 seconds every minute. Obviously there will be times when you are "permajammed" and others where you wonder if the Falcon isn't just shooting at you for redboxes' sake, but for fielding such a hard-counter to ECM, with no other purpose in a fight, there should be higher tangible benefits.

I propose three things:
1. Raise the advantage of the LG s/s omega to 80% instead of it's present 40% and HG s/s omega to 200% instead of it's present 100%.
2. Introduction faction racial ECCM, offering a substantial (33% or greater) benefit over regular ECCM to the Faction Warfare LP store.
3. Introduction of slot 3 jam duration reduction booster.

Raising the advantage of the omegas, vice a full set boost, would serve as something of a tradeoff to fitting, while still giving firm advantage if one was willing to trade PG to get it. Racial ECCM would be yet another lucrative item to help fund FW PvP. And finally the slot 3 jam duration reduction would greatly aid frigates, which benefit very little from the HG implants and typically don't have the spare slots for ECCM modules.
Drake Iddon
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#2 - 2011-11-28 10:03:15 UTC
/support

a perfect way to move people away from the falcon alt mindset, although it seems out of reach to the newer players with a less meaty wallet. still +1
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-11-28 10:05:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Drake Iddon wrote:
/support
a perfect way to move people away from the falcon alt mindset, although it seems out of reach to the newer players with a less meaty wallet. still +1


LG sets are currently around 75-90M, total. I imagine this would spike a bit due to the increase in effectiveness, especially the omega (which is currently nearly the cheapest). I don't envision it as something most newer players would get into, but honestly something like 90-120M isn't terribly out of newbie reach.
Drake Iddon
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#4 - 2011-11-28 10:21:53 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Drake Iddon wrote:
/support
a perfect way to move people away from the falcon alt mindset, although it seems out of reach to the newer players with a less meaty wallet. still +1


LG sets are currently around 75-90M, total. I imagine this would spike a bit due to the increase in effectiveness, especially the omega (which is currently nearly the cheapest). I don't envision it as something most newer players would get into, but honestly something like 90-120M isn't terribly out of newbie reach.


i foresee they will spike a fair amount after any sort of buff, if it becomes a hard counter like it should be it could even end up nearing the billions per set mark.

i was also referring to the faction racial eccm, which again might end up costing more than some players' ships

in regards to boosters, with ccp removing the setbacks i have no idea what sort of price these will come too, although i do approve of a 3rd slot booster other than crash.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#5 - 2011-11-28 17:34:41 UTC
Drake Iddon wrote:


in regards to boosters, with ccp removing the setbacks i have no idea what sort of price these will come too, although i do approve of a 3rd slot booster other than crash.


This change was reversed.
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#6 - 2011-11-28 19:27:33 UTC
I like the idea of a bump to the sensor str sets, but I think the bonuses you listed are a bit on the high side. For instance jamming should still be a viable mechanic in breaking logistics chains, and with those implant bonuses coupled with ECCM and remote ECCM you're already looking at logistics that are nearly immune to ECM.

+1 for the faction warfare ECCM module. I just like the idea.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon

Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#7 - 2011-11-28 22:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanthra
I like the gist of this idea. With unprobable taken away, the hg sensor implants were nerfed(why many got them in the first place), this would get some usefullness back. Given cost and pita of cyber 5 for the omega, if they can't make you disappear off scans they may as well increase jam proofing.


actual percentage would have to be worked out on sisi. To be fair to falcon pilots, if they took the time to 5 everything there should be no untouchable ships. But 200 might be reasonable. tengu with sensor sub, hg talons, eccm and sensor backup is still jammable (I am against gurista anyway, not sure of player jams). haven't had coffee yet to work out numbers, that should be a decent amount over 100.

Faction eccm mods be nice as well. Again, no unprobable so it won't be used for that. Faction would be cost limited since some like cheaps builds. For those that don't mind price as much, they get some options.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-11-30 06:34:55 UTC
Fidelium Mortis wrote:
I like the idea of a bump to the sensor str sets, but I think the bonuses you listed are a bit on the high side. For instance jamming should still be a viable mechanic in breaking logistics chains, and with those implant bonuses coupled with ECCM and remote ECCM you're already looking at logistics that are nearly immune to ECM.


Even with a sensor strength of 100, a max skill Falcon throw racial jammers will still get cycles off 25% of the time. Obviously, it's up in the air whether this is "good enough" but the specifics are secondary to the idea that you should be able to have more ways to "pimp" your sensor strength and should get more from the ways we have currently.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-01-18 18:14:45 UTC
back to the top
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-01-18 22:21:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
I suggest some of you complaining about ECM actually try using a ECM boat. You give up all your midslots to be able to perma jam one guy or two if your lucky. And your lows? Unless you enjoy a 4500 ehp falcon with max shield armor and hull skills youll be equipping a 1600 armor, a active armor explosive hardener and a damage control 2 for a whopping 16k ish ehp.

I'd mention the falcon dps but out of sheer embarassment I won't. I'd count it as zero and assume some type of scanner there instead. And if that scanner is there, the sisters, you can't armor tank unless you give up jamming ability, actual jammer modules.

The Rook is a joke. No warp cloak & mediocre DPS. Perhaps it can tag along in a fleet but it's survivability isn't much better if at all fit worthwhile.

Someone pass me the cluestick so I can start crowning some of these asshats.
Goose99
#11 - 2012-01-18 22:41:48 UTC
Nice changes. This way, you can be nearly unprobable without ECCM, only implants.Lol
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-01-19 02:02:39 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
I suggest some of you complaining about ECM actually try using a ECM boat. You give up all your midslots to be able to perma jam one guy or two if your lucky. And your lows? Unless you enjoy a 4500 ehp falcon with max shield armor and hull skills youll be equipping a 1600 armor, a active armor explosive hardener and a damage control 2 for a whopping 16k ish ehp.


I'm not complaining about Falcons in this thread and I've never been a "HURR FALCONS" guy. I just want ECCM implants/modules to offer some greater benefit. Falcons will still work if intelligently employed and that's fine.