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My thoughts on the so-called "Free to Play" scheme
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#61 - 2016-11-21 19:22:49 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
So now we have the feature and as expected we will now have this daily threads with people complaining about the paywalls and other people trying to sell it as "extended trial".

Oh well...


Because it is an extended trial: that's how CCP explained the feature. Just because a lot of failed games were F2P+P2W doesn't mean that any "play for free" feature must necessarily be P2W. I don't consider subscription to be P2W. It's not buying power that is not normally available — subscription is the normal state.

We also have an item shop, and people complained bitterly about the prices of things in the shop ($70 monocles being the thing that really got people upset back in the day). A lot of people were conditioned by failed F2P+P2W games to expect microtransactions to buy consumables that give you power.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#62 - 2016-11-21 19:44:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Utremi Fasolasi
Do Little wrote:
The skillset is sufficient to participate in most aspects of gameplay and if you want more, a subscription costs less than a cup of coffee/day.


Less than a piece of candy/day.

15.00/30 = 50 cents per day.
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2016-11-21 21:03:48 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:


I'm just curious since I've never played WoW or bothered following it in detail, but was there any uproar in the community when they introduced the free to play until level 20 bit?

Not that I know of. It gave people the ability to play when they didn't have the money to pay.

I am sure some of the "Elite" players got their noses bent out of shape but they always do. Much like here, people with no lives whose only accomplishments in life are on a game. Who find anything that might effect the thousands of hours they have invested into the game.

The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.

After all we are not just players, we are customers.

Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2016-11-21 21:18:56 UTC
Judaa K'Marr wrote:

The matter has never been about "too poor to play", unlikely anyone is that poor if they own a computer and net access. The issue is that, they pay for EVE, then for WOW, then for FFXIV, then something from an item store, and gem store. Then wife is asking about where all this money is going. So it comes down to picking only that which is value for money, which to them, EVE isn't. This is Microeconomics 101, shouldn't need explaining to EVE players.

Actually when I was studying full time I played a fair amount of free WoW. My accounts had expired in EvE, I didn't have cash to waste on a sub for it or WoW, so I used to play free WoW. So I could enjoy myself for a while and not fork out the cash.

The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.

After all we are not just players, we are customers.

Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2016-11-21 22:04:14 UTC
Loosy Lollipop wrote:

You can share a piece of bread with ten persons and still be decently happy but if you share the same piece of bread with a hundred persons it can potentially be not so fun anymore.


Oh hey speak for yourself. This is Eve, sharing is Wrong.
Why not have ALL the bread and shoot a hundred people and be deliriously ecstatic?




Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#66 - 2016-11-21 23:37:18 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
So now we have the feature and as expected we will now have this daily threads with people complaining about the paywalls and other people trying to sell it as "extended trial".

Oh well...


Because it is an extended trial: that's how CCP explained the feature. Just because a lot of failed games were F2P+P2W doesn't mean that any "play for free" feature must necessarily be P2W. I don't consider subscription to be P2W. It's not buying power that is not normally available — subscription is the normal state.

We also have an item shop, and people complained bitterly about the prices of things in the shop ($70 monocles being the thing that really got people upset back in the day). A lot of people were conditioned by failed F2P+P2W games to expect microtransactions to buy consumables that give you power.

Yes yes, explain that to the alphas who will complain about it, which is what I talked about in the linked post. I get that it is suppost to be an "extended trial", but that is not what people will expect... get it now? You know, like in this very thread and all the others like it...

Evil RatKid
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2016-11-21 23:58:00 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
So now we have the feature and as expected we will now have this daily threads with people complaining about the paywalls and other people trying to sell it as "extended trial".

Oh well...


Because it is an extended trial: that's how CCP explained the feature. Just because a lot of failed games were F2P+P2W doesn't mean that any "play for free" feature must necessarily be P2W. I don't consider subscription to be P2W. It's not buying power that is not normally available — subscription is the normal state.

We also have an item shop, and people complained bitterly about the prices of things in the shop ($70 monocles being the thing that really got people upset back in the day). A lot of people were conditioned by failed F2P+P2W games to expect microtransactions to buy consumables that give you power.

Yes yes, explain that to the alphas who will complain about it, which is what I talked about in the linked post. I get that it is suppost to be an "extended trial", but that is not what people will expect... get it now? You know, like in this very thread and all the others like it...

Look at WoT, completely free game and the company was making money out of gold ammo. People bitched about pay to win in a free game and so they had to make it so you could gring to get it.

It is the basic rule of retail. The cheaper something is the more people complain.

The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.

After all we are not just players, we are customers.

Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Conrad Makbure
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2016-11-22 03:23:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Conrad Makbure
WTH, alphas are supposed to train slower, they don't pay anything. So yeah, they will train slower. Also, I hope plex hits 2B isk/unit in the near future.
Zumbas Egdald
Atlantis Industrial Ltd
#69 - 2016-11-22 12:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Zumbas Egdald
As a returning omega clone, now as alpha, and after I read all your better and experience voice, I would like to say this:

1- it's an amazing and good thing they did this. As an Alpha I could pretty much all the things ( not sure for exploration, need to check that out) omega does. I can go to everywhere omega goes, as always at my own risk, EVE style.

2- yes it sucks I can't use most of my 10kk skills, and some ships that aren't minnatar. But what the hell, is free!!

3- I think your words might turn against you. Yes, I do believe most of the alphas that will stick around ( maybe in a year time, 1/5 of them will still be here) will have fun, and some of those will buy plex or a year subscription.

4- I play MMO for some time. Since 2003. Played one grind, hardcore game, Lineage2, and I still do. Yes I followed up all this F2p move in others and on this particularly game. Personally I think it's a mistake. I prefer to pay to play, cause that way I assuring the game I like keeps going.

5- that said, for reasons that are my own, at the moment I can't pay, so I was hoping for some time a free move like this. I tried, trial mode,I think in 2005 or 06. I remember that some mission of mining I had to find some particular ore, and made a few jumps, not knowing if I would be safe or target in the way. I even remember of buying a new ship.good feeling. But then trial ended, and I kept this sensation as something to do it again.

6- so I did, last year. Awesome. It I get lost here. And that's the point EVE fails. If you don't find a good corp you end up, feeling looney and left. What's the point?!

7- now I can give it a go again. Find my place here, and if things ending up ok, might return to omega state... or not!

EVE is a different game of all I ever played, but I miss a bit of lore missions, something to identify myself to my racial kind, and help me explain why my ships are this way and not the other.

PS: I even bought a shirt back then... think was a galente symbol. Heresy I know... :)
Malphas Vynneve
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2016-11-22 17:22:58 UTC
Honestly, i wouldn't count any negative feedback from an alpha account as proof of F2P as a bad move. I would only look at the current online players at given times as proof. May be a sort of snake eating its own tail situation, but any number of existing players who are already greedy enough to start multiple accounts and thusly, prefer free alpha accounts to be much more advantageous, would create an alpha account just to give negative feedback.

:tinfoil: activate
Tristan Valentina
Moira.
#71 - 2016-11-22 18:32:23 UTC
It will be really interesting to see if the money CCP invested in alpha clones becomes worth it, I expect it was cheap and will net massive results.

Everything OP said is what makes EVE, the game that it is. If you dont want to play it any longer you cant quit now, but you could give me your stuff.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#72 - 2016-11-22 22:04:47 UTC
DonaldJTrump USAPresident wrote:


0/10 for your troll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University
#73 - 2016-11-22 22:50:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Rin Vocaloid2
DonaldJTrump USAPresident wrote:
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
damn! you mean you have to pay money to play the full game,, what is CCP thinking. Roll

ffs man,, ya know i had a mate log in the other night and he was going nuts because he couldn't log his 8 other accounts on at the same time for free. then when that sunk in he was also surprised he could not use a barge, what the hell do these people expect?

it's a carrot stick thing dude.

CCP dangles the carrot and we use the stick and with some luck some sub and stay and those that are happy to get the free to play time can stick with the limits it has.

at the very same time a new player joined and he was so so excited by everything he was seeing and to him these limits didn't mean anything for a least a month or 2, but guess what, after hanging with us for a week and playing and enjoying the game, he subbed for 3 months.

bottom line,,, to new guys this is fecking brilliant and well done CCP.

to returning vets,,, it's not such a big deal. let's them see the changes, lets them do some PVP but doesn't let them access the full game.

working as intended i guess.




For returning vets that's a huge restriction, no longer being able to use things you trained for longer ago without paying is certainly not "F2P" for them. Might as well just not have bothered in the first place.

F2P of 2016 is a lot different than F2P that was many years ago.


You do realize CCP dedicated a handful of Dev blogs and frequently communicated directly with the Eve Community for feedback on how to properly set Alpha Clones without breaking the game and its economy, right?

PS:

Quote:
F2P of 2016 is a lot different than F2P that was many years ago


Well, that's what happens when the MMO industry had to adapt to get around or away from the stigma that F2P had for a while (pay-to-win items for example).

PPS: I just realized your name.
Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University
#74 - 2016-11-22 23:00:30 UTC
Apex Bex wrote:
I think you're looking at it from a very negative stand point.

I can remember hearing some mates crap on about Battlefield 2 back when it was a new release. They encouraged me to download the Demo that let you play on a single map with a basic load out for no more than 8 minutes at a time. I must've done that Demo a hundred times and by then I was totally hooked.

As soon as I had the spare funds, I bought it.

Many will see this opportunity with EVE Online in the same light.

Alpha clones will let them explore the different opportunities that exist in EVE without the time constraints of a 14 day trial. Moreover, progress made as an Alpha clone is progress kept when you upgrade, so there are incentives for those who are taken by some facet of the game to see just how far and deep EVE Online goes.


Agreed.