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DONT NERF MY DRAKE PLEASE I BEG OF YOU
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Famble
Three's a Crowd
#41 - 2012-01-18 20:48:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Famble
arcca jeth wrote:
CCP is starting down the slippery slope here. Nerf = Nerf = Nerf and so on

The Hurricane in mr potatoes guys analysis doesn't really argue anything other than training time. the dps of the Hurricane fit is considerably higher with a lower EHP when compared to the drake. what you could argue for is to bring the drake training times in par with the Hurricane if that is the basis of your argument.

Now they could make the drake a little less effective at close range but then that would present a problem to Heavy Assault fits.

players use different ships and fits for different reasons. i see Hurricanes more often then Drakes but no one makes a fuss about them.

If CCP nerfs the Drake it will be the beginning of an endless cycle of NERFS.


Hurricane has: twice the DPS indeed, but one quarter of the tank, less range by a factor of 8 or so and takes 35 days longer to train. 35 days! Crazy since they're both passively tanked battlecruisers. And the tank, my gosh man, 70,000 ehp?!? On a battlecruiser that can be trained that quickly?! You seriously don't see a problem here?

Also, I could have stuck artillery on the hurricane to make range a bit closer to the Drake (still not as good though) and the DPS would be almost equal.

I'm not complaining, I love the Hurricane as is and truly don't give two craps about Drakes I'll take DPS over tank any day. But that seems nuts the way it is now.

If anyone ever looks at you and says,_ "Hold my beer, watch this,"_  you're probably going to want to pay attention.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#42 - 2012-01-18 22:31:58 UTC
Actually just fit and dps graphed a Hurrican and a Drake. Presuming both were moving at 97% of velocity with weighted resists, and varying trajectories. The Drake can only maintain about 98 DPS with HMs at any range; where the Hurricane pushes 120DPS in short Range, and falls off from there.

Presuming a PvP scenario, where the Drake and Hurricane were close enough to Scram each other, the Hurricane would likely win, and it's also faster, (about +100 m/s), so it can manage range. Both had about the same EHP.
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Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#43 - 2012-01-18 22:33:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Famble wrote:
arcca jeth wrote:
CCP is starting down the slippery slope here. Nerf = Nerf = Nerf and so on

The Hurricane in mr potatoes guys analysis doesn't really argue anything other than training time. the dps of the Hurricane fit is considerably higher with a lower EHP when compared to the drake. what you could argue for is to bring the drake training times in par with the Hurricane if that is the basis of your argument.

Now they could make the drake a little less effective at close range but then that would present a problem to Heavy Assault fits.

players use different ships and fits for different reasons. i see Hurricanes more often then Drakes but no one makes a fuss about them.

If CCP nerfs the Drake it will be the beginning of an endless cycle of NERFS.


Hurricane has: twice the DPS indeed, but one quarter of the tank, less range by a factor of 8 or so and takes 35 days longer to train. 35 days! Crazy since they're both passively tanked battlecruisers. And the tank, my gosh man, 70,000 ehp?!? On a battlecruiser that can be trained that quickly?! You seriously don't see a problem here?

Also, I could have stuck artillery on the hurricane to make range a bit closer to the Drake (still not as good though) and the DPS would be almost equal.

I'm not complaining, I love the Hurricane as is and truly don't give two craps about Drakes I'll take DPS over tank any day. But that seems nuts the way it is now.



The Hurricane takes longer to train because you have to go through Small Turrets Spec to get Medium Turret Spec. That's not really a fair assessment. BC 5 Trains in the same time either way; as do the rest of the skills.


edit: The problem isn't so much the Drake, as the Heavy Missiles vs. Minmatar Artis Range and DPS. The 650 and 720 Artis have pathetic DPS and not particularly comparable range. HMs could probably use a 20km Max. Range reduction, and Artis could likely see a DPS boost and Optimal Increase.

Drop the base shields and shield Regen on the Drake by 5% and change the Kinetic bonus to 5% to all missiles, and call it good.

That would probably be all that is needed. You can't fault a ship hull for the weapons systems it has access to.

Not saying that will provide perfect balance, but it will bring it a lot closer.
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Rixiu
PonyTek
#44 - 2012-01-18 22:36:16 UTC
Nerf subcaps, buff supers and capitals in general. Yeah, that sounds about right... oh wait!
met worst
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-01-18 22:58:25 UTC
Nerf Drakes!?!?!

Please note: You never see 'em used for ganks.

NERF the Brutix!!!
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#46 - 2012-01-18 23:07:16 UTC
Lots of misinformation in this thread... just to reinterate.

A ROF bonus = more damage than a 5% kinetic damage bonus, and is applicable to all damage types.

Your typical properly fit Drake will currently ignore the damage of a comparable Harby or Hurricane and pound it to a pulp over time or force it to withdraw. As always, there are exceptions to this rule.

Even post change the Drake can still mount a very nice tank, while delivering more (selectable) damage at longer ranges.

When a "new" player can quickly jump into a Drake and do level 4's with impunity at little expense, this indicates a problem.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-01-18 23:13:51 UTC
Words.
Also, poasting in a tears thread.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-01-18 23:15:14 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Lots of misinformation in this thread... just to reinterate.

A ROF bonus = more damage than a 5% kinetic damage bonus, and is applicable to all damage types.

Your typical properly fit Drake will currently ignore the damage of a comparable Harby or Hurricane and pound it to a pulp over time or force it to withdraw. As always, there are exceptions to this rule.

Even post change the Drake can still mount a very nice tank, while delivering more (selectable) damage at longer ranges.

When a "new" player can quickly jump into a Drake and do level 4's with impunity at little expense, this indicates a problem.



Not sure about the bold part but everything else is true. If they do the changes proposed in the minutes, it's hardly a nerf. I'm more inclined to call it a buff, maybe a re-balancing.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
met worst
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-01-18 23:15:58 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

When a "new" player can quickly jump into a Drake and do level 4's with impunity at little expense, this indicates a problem.

So the problem is actually new guys/missioners making too much money again is it? Seems to be a common theme 'round here.

How 'bout we just make ALL ships in game have a "0.0" bonus. You HAVE to be in a major alliance, suck hard, provide reach-arounds 23.5/7 and tow the line for bonuses to apply.

Starting to think the motivation for some guys is a highsec emptier than lowsec and/or turn it into a ******* wasteland.
met worst
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-01-18 23:19:05 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
Words.
Also, poasting in a tears thread.

This coming from a guy that did nothing but rat in PXF with a..... wait for it...... DRAKE

Obviously don't need it anymore huh?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-01-18 23:43:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Famble wrote:
Nice, T2 Drake.
Newbie training plan: ~52 days
70,000 EHP - 463 omni dps tank
463 DPS @ 80+ km


Funny, I'm looking at a 125 day skillplan for a freshly rolled character to fly a halfway decent T2-fit Drake. You know that having the skills to fit the ship and use the mods doesn't quite mean that you can fly it effectively, right? Ugh

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-01-19 00:53:53 UTC
1. Take drake into C1/C2 wormhole
2. pull all the triggers and lol as drake easily tanks dozens of sleepers, even with no hardeners.
4. point and click missiles. Range, meh, traversal, meh.
5. profit

Passive shield tanking is OP, especially for ships with shield resistance bonuses.
FadeIN Fr0St
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-01-19 01:02:55 UTC
mkint wrote:
"I want to keep my easy mode ship that requires no thought nor talent to fly!"

Drake sucks. People fly it because it's made for stupid people. Anyone defending it is revealing their intelligence.



This mam is not incorrect.

"All hail Wang ... the little fella in Command. When 'trouble' starts to spread, I'm sure he will rise to the occasion."

Azahni Vah'nos (Best reply ever)
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-01-19 01:14:34 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:

Anyone claiming that it needs to be nerfed for any other reason than PvP is just
full of it and using excuses to make PvP easier for their chosen ship.


Yeah, well I'm full of this:

The Drake is far superior for PVE than any other battlecruiser, superior in PVE many ways to most t3's (except tengu), superior in PVE to HACs (except Ishtar), superior to pirate cruisers (except Gila), and is also superior in most PVE to most battleships.

I don't give a f--- about PVP, and I don't really care if it doesn't get nerfed, since I benefit as much as anyone from it staying as it is, but it is clearly an outlier in PVE.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-01-19 01:25:18 UTC
Lord Salty wrote:
As per the title,
PLEASE DONT NERF MY DRAKE.
I read in the CSM notes the potential nerf for the drake.
While i would agree that the Nighthawk doesnt get looked at as much because of the drake's sheer amount of awesomeness I dont agree that the solution is nerfing the drake.
I am not one of the ppl that flies a drake coz its easy to fly. I am a proud Caldari pilot that flies a Drake because shields and missiles are awesome!


The nighthawk isn't used because its crap and there are better ships for its intended purpose. It has nothing to do with the drake.

Command ships in general need a review. You might see one occasionally as an off grid booster but that's all.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#56 - 2012-01-19 01:27:38 UTC
What the hell is all the complaining about. A minor loss of tank (I estimate it could still tank most lvl4s in its sleep) for a major gain in effective dps.

The drake will actually kill things in less than an hour!!!
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-01-19 01:28:57 UTC
Bend over and take it like a man. This was a long, long, LONG time coming.

I for one hope the time taken was an epic run up for the pounding.

Signed
Bitter Gallente Purist.

I lied :o
met worst
Doomheim
#58 - 2012-01-19 01:32:26 UTC
Anya Ohaya wrote:
1. Take drake into C1/C2 wormhole
2. pull all the triggers and lol as drake easily tanks dozens of sleepers, even with no hardeners.
4. point and click missiles. Range, meh, traversal, meh.
5. profit

Passive shield tanking is OP, especially for ships with shield resistance bonuses.

Can I come watch you do this? (The underline bit - in a C2).
Famble
Three's a Crowd
#59 - 2012-01-19 01:36:53 UTC
Andski wrote:
Famble wrote:
Nice, T2 Drake.
Newbie training plan: ~52 days
70,000 EHP - 463 omni dps tank
463 DPS @ 80+ km


Funny, I'm looking at a 125 day skillplan for a freshly rolled character to fly a halfway decent T2-fit Drake. You know that having the skills to fit the ship and use the mods doesn't quite mean that you can fly it effectively, right? Ugh


Fine, now do it for a cane smart guy. I explained the parameters of my example. I can only lead you water friend, i can't make you drink.

If anyone ever looks at you and says,_ "Hold my beer, watch this,"_  you're probably going to want to pay attention.
Rubix Khamsi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2012-01-19 01:39:25 UTC
Reduce damage/range of heavies, and be done with it? Maybe a slightly EHP nurf, or fix PG/CPU so you cant fit 2x large shield extenders...