Player Features and Ideas Discussion

What about if you could "bind" bpc's into a book or something similar so you can condense them into 1 item and when using that "book" the game would take ... 1 book that consists of 7 hammer head II bpc's (just a random number) and just produce the first one then next one without you having to start finish start next one finish that way the crying about me reward per high number of runs becomes irrelevant.

im just sick and tired of bpc's that take so short time to produce that i have to use my gizillion alts to produce start finish several hundred jobs multiple times a day. and same goes with organizing all the damn bpc's and the lag of moving them and start and finishing the jobs.

I'm not sure they need extra selling points. They boast the highest efficiency in the game.

You really are dense aren't you.

There is literally nothing "impossible" about a system that deletes a few BPCs and adds runs to existing BPCs. It is exactly the same simple mathematical system that removes remaining runs from a BPC when used in a crafting job, or updates HP when damaging/repairing a module, drone, ship, etc. You are modifying a single variable that already exists on the item's DB template. In this case the variable happens to be an INT named runs remaining.

Either you have an imperfect understanding of basic computer science, or you're being willfully obstructionist. Stacking implies that individual items exist in the stack, and can be split in to smaller stacks. The reason this is problematic for blueprints is because each BPC is effectively ALREADY a complex stack, and if you were to stack them in a conventional manner (where you could then unstack them) you'd need to continue to store the individual runs remaining on each one in a manner EVE's stacking code isn't formateed to handle (all stacking items are considered identical, which is why you have to repair/repackage them, so the stack can refer to a single base item ID with no additionable variables)

Further, the system that creates invention BPCs is limited in the current manner for a reason. The RNG that determines the output result is limited to small run BPCs in order to require the user to consistantly invent, and invent at scale unreliably. That RNG also controls the entire market for decryptors, meaning that if invention is too successful or reliable at its base value that decryptors and to a smaller extent datacores can't properly sink out of the economy, meaning demand drops. In fact the adjustments to invention in crius did exactly that, and seriously crashed the decrpytor and datacore market, which hurt exploration of data sites considerably, but that' a separate topic entirely.

Altering invention to simply create larger BPCs drastically changes the production flow of invention, and further wouldn't do anything at all to address the hangar clutter of similar BPCs like faction ships/modules. A system of BPC run combination packs up all those QOL issues in a tidier box, as well as fixes security issues inherant with BPCS not being lockable. That BPC issue is considerably more important now than it once was due to the much higher drop rates of faction blueprints and much more regular use of faction equipment now compared to a few years ago, which shows no signs of slowing down as CCP plans to continue to add more and more faction ships to the game.

As far as the database goes you have 2 types of items.

Stacks and singletons. (There is another term that gets used for stacks but I can not remember it).

Stacks are literally a pile of the unmodified item with a counter to say how many of them there are and a location (and a unique ID for the stack). They have no other information. a Pile of ammo is a good example of this. All items in the stack are identical and the only thing we care about is how many are left in the stack.

A Singleton is a single instance of an item, it can have additional 'features' or modified base values. But they are unique to this item, and they can be modified. Ships and Blueprints are good examples of these. Ships get assembled and then have additional attributes (the modules plugged into them, damage sustained etc). Blueprints get researched and have the ME and TE values specific to that instance of the Blueprint (the differ from the master example in the database for those values).

There is nothing, theoretically, stopping CCP from adding a function that allows you to combine to BPC' (as long as they have the same ME?TE values) into a single item with a runs remaining value equal to the sum of the runs remaining on the 2 initial items. It is a single database field that would change on one of the items and the second item would be deleted. Technically possible and not difficult as they already have a function that reduces the runs available when it is used in a manufacturing job or an invention job, this would just allow the addition of Run's to a BPC rather than the removal of Runs.

I have chosen in the past not to go down this path, but this comment has changed my mind. If you are going to resort to name calling because someone disagrees with you then you get my real ideas and thoughts. What the hell if I am going to be called names might as well give you a real reason to do it.

You and you alone are the problem here not the game or any part of it.
Since you have hangers full of cans that are in turn full of BPC's waiting for the next step in the process it is obvious that your ability to produce these BPC's outpaces your ability to use them. So the simple solution here is to switch to the on demand sourcing model instead of the build or invent it as fast as you can and stock pile it model. On demand sourcing simply means that at each step you only produce what you will need for the next step in the process. Once you have this on demand sourcing figured out and the amount to produce at each step determined and your stock piles used up you will find it will make a huge difference in the amount of stuff you have to store. But game and not real world many will say and In this specific case I reject that as irrelevant. On demand sourcing can and will work here in EvE the indy corp I have a character in uses it all the time.

There you now have a challenge that will make EvE more interesting, you will eliminate as much of your storage problems as possible AND you will not occupy any developer time to do it. Win Win as they say.

It can't happen with stacking the items in the same way you stack packaged modules, but you could take 2 10 run BPCs and combine them into a single 20 run BPC, since you're creating a new third item and removing the other two.

I actually like this solution. It fixes a common complaint with BPCs, gets around the known technical issues, and potentially lets someone obsessive try to get a massive run count on a single BPC.

And, nevermind the sheer agility afforded by having BPCs on hand. Temporary supply shortage of a particular good offering fat margins? If you have the BPCs on hand, you can take advantage of that. If you have to take the time to invent them, producers that had the BPCs on hand will have likely (over)corrected the situation long before you can get them invented and built.

Corp or alliance needs doctrine fittings for an op this weekend? Already have the BPCs: Piece of cake. Don't have them already? Too bad.

I'm not giving up that functionality as a workaround for inherently bad inventory management and a laggy industrial window. The suggestion is patently insipid.

Well so many people have said that the programing side of it is hard/not possible unless a major rewrite of the code.
but id like some comment from a CCP employee regarding this issue.

After ascension patch the lag during these massive amount of bpc's has become much worse and ocassionally lock up compeltely and ive found out logging out and back in fixes it for me.

One does not need even a basic understanding of the process to realize simple facts gleaned from your original post, all one needs to do is read.

From this paragraph we know that your ability to produce the materials needed for your final T2 production out paces your need for those materials.

We know that your overproduction of these materials is causing you some significant problems with inventory and storage.

We know that due to some problems inherent in the process and the simple fact that this is a computer game you need to have a certain level of excess materials in storage to minimize or even possibly eliminate final production delays.

We also know from this that currently it is impossible to stack or to combine BPC's.

There we have a solid understanding of the basic problems you want CCP to solve and we have done nothing but read you own words. My answer from this is the same as it was in my last posts. Properly applied to your specific needs and your specific situation on demand sourcing can and will eliminate a lot of your inventory and storage hassles so why the reluctance to even try it.


This one is interesting and puzzling at the same time.
On the face it seems logical that streamlining your production process to eliminate as much of your inventory and storage hassles as possible would be considered as being better, smarted and more efficient at the game. Yet now you tell me that doing these things makes you "worse" at the game. I think I need to wander off into the mists of EvE and contemplate this revelation while taking some form of mind altering substance.


You state at the beginning of this section that on demand sourcing is not always a good idea, and then you go on to this list of why it is not valid in your situation. The funny thing here is I do not see these as a reason why on demand sourcing WILL NOT work, what I see is a series of things that must be considered when setting up your on demand sourcing system. Yes at the most basic level on demand produces exactly what you need for the next step in the process, and yes I am aware that I stated that, but then I also stated that it needed to be adapted to your specific situation. I had given you and others credit for having enough intelligence to look at a basic process and then adapt it to meet your needs, I can see now that I was wrong.

A. Here is a really crazy thought, so crazy that you probably never even considered it. How about moving that BPO' research to an NPC station in low sec that CANNOT be destroyed. Surely this would be an easy thing for a group of nul sec industrialists like you to handle.

B. So you need to account for average loses and the time delays the could cause when setting up your on demand system. This is all part of the adapting the basic concept to your specific needs.

C. This is a decision made by you or another person, and as such it is not a problem with the game. No one forces you to add to your storage problems with this over production and I am sure that there are other things your corp / alliance needs that could be produced in those time slots instead.

E. And all of them can and should be considered when setting up an on demand system.
Like so many in EvE you simply dismiss something because you either do not understand it or you do not want to take the time to work it all out you simply want CCP to solve your problems for you.

One has to wonder, have you ever considered that CCP just might have put all these twists into the processes involved specifically as a way of limiting what you can produce? Or amybe they put them into the system as a way of making it more vulnerable to attack by other players.

Considering that I am an ex-CCP employee and have worked with this section of code. Admittedly it was some time ago and it could have changed significantly, but the database structure has not so as I said.

Possible, question is if CCP want to do it.