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Problem with eve is...

Author
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#21 - 2016-11-19 09:13:13 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
It's become dull and predictable with many PVP mechanics geared towards fight instead of flight. This itself has created risk aversion because once a player has been locked down there isn't much they can to do to survive. With players who want to provide engagement in Eve, they are sadly losing interest because "where is the engagement in not being able to survive".

I don't know what the solution is but the solution has to be for players to be able to survive if the situation changes. Back before they introduced Scramblers and webs, an MWD used to help people flight, in today's game you are forced to commit and this is causing a lot of risk averse game play.


we had a fight in 7rm yesterday, 4-5 fleets of 10-20 people each, wrecks all over the place and a lot of fun
maybe you should try to hit the undock button once and leave highsec..

just because you are risk averse does not mean others are
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#22 - 2016-11-19 10:25:09 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
"where is the engagement in not being able to survive".


Git Gud.






Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Quenching Waters
Doomheim
#23 - 2016-11-19 10:39:47 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:


For a start I would remove warp disrupters and scramblers and webs from the game and give more ways for people to set up their ships. The intention would be to be able to protect the systems that lets some one warp rather than some crap ass outdated mechanic tying someone to a grid.

At the same token I would give more ways for people to combat said defenses rather than chewing through someones shields, then armour then hull..... The challenge shouldn't be this, it should be stopping the target from getting away, and I don't mean fitting warp core stablizers.



Just want to say that two can play the e-war game and scamblers, webs and nosferatus can be used defensively.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#24 - 2016-11-19 10:45:17 UTC
"There's too much fighting in PVP."
Hakawai
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-11-20 15:15:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
"There's too much fighting in PVP."

There's too much denial among established players.

EVE has a lot of "barriers to entry" that make it difficult to become established in the game.

Clearly a thread titled "Problem with EVE is..." isn't going the get anything done, but it does highlight something that appears in many threads where people look for ways to make the game more accessible:

... long-established "SP-fat and happy" players using well-practiced, slickly presented, but unsupportable arguments which serve only to protect their advantages. Some of you should be thinking a bit more seriously about the consequences of successfully suppressing all such discussions in favor of keeping "your" EVE unchanged.

This is the ideal moment (and possibly the last opportunity) to find ways to address startup issues like the new player PvP risk-aversion mentioned in the OP.

These days they have many options, and there's no justification for a new player to accept the old MMO model: nubs have to waste large amounts of time "paying their dues" as cannon-fodder for experienced players (or the RL friends of experienced players, who always seem to get a free pass on "startup hell").

Experienced players and forum-warriors should be among those looking for workable compromises that bring people into the game without breaking it. What isn't a good start is being obliged to teach new players that they can be forced into wildly asymmetrical PvP anywhere, have no practical way to avoid "non-consensual" PvP, and can't trust anyone they meet in-game.
Engage You
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2016-11-20 15:32:58 UTC
the community

eve would be just fine without players
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-11-20 15:38:30 UTC
Engage You wrote:
the community

eve would be just fine without players


I knew RvB was going downhill (hence why I left) but with attitudes like that, in a PVP alliance, their bar must have dropped a lot.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-11-20 15:41:03 UTC
Hakawai wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
"There's too much fighting in PVP."

There's too much denial among established players.

EVE has a lot of "barriers to entry" that make it difficult to become established in the game.


And yet somehow, us 'established players' got passed them, when they were a lot higher than they are now. Gee, I wonder how we did that? People like you that keep whining "EVE is too hard for newbros!" keep forgetting that we were all newbros once, and yet, here we are.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Hakawai
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2016-11-20 16:42:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Hakawai wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
"There's too much fighting in PVP."

There's too much denial among established players.

EVE has a lot of "barriers to entry" that make it difficult to become established in the game.


And yet somehow, us 'established players' got passed them, when they were a lot higher than they are now. Gee, I wonder how we did that? People like you that keep whining "EVE is too hard for newbros!" keep forgetting that we were all newbros once, and yet, here we are.


Are you trying to demonstrate what I was saying about established players by example, or just logic-impaired? The claim about "whining 'EVE is too hard for newbros'" is just a "Straw Man" - you can't address what was actually said, so you fabricate an easy but irrelevant target and go after that. Read what you quoted, and demonstrate that's wrong instead.


The problem with that whole "fat and happy" approach - with its consequent complete indifference to the startup threshold - is that the gaming world has moved on. New players are no longer disposable resources deployed for the entertainment of well-established players.

Why should it be just as hard for a new player to get started as it was for the old-timers? If you can find an argument that is likely to persuade new players to subscribe to EVE I might reconsider my position. But it won't be "we had it tough, therefore so must everyone else" - that's quite likely to have the opposite effect.
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#30 - 2016-11-20 17:06:44 UTC
This is why they should keep score in T-Ball.

@lunettelulu7

Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2016-11-20 22:08:27 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Engage You wrote:
the community

eve would be just fine without players


I knew RvB was going downhill (hence why I left) but with attitudes like that, in a PVP alliance, their bar must have dropped a lot.

Text doesn't transmit a sarcastic tone of voice very well.

A signature :o

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2016-11-21 02:27:00 UTC
Hakawai wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Hakawai wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
"There's too much fighting in PVP."

There's too much denial among established players.

EVE has a lot of "barriers to entry" that make it difficult to become established in the game.


And yet somehow, us 'established players' got passed them, when they were a lot higher than they are now. Gee, I wonder how we did that? People like you that keep whining "EVE is too hard for newbros!" keep forgetting that we were all newbros once, and yet, here we are.


Are you trying to demonstrate what I was saying about established players by example, or just logic-impaired? The claim about "whining 'EVE is too hard for newbros'" is just a "Straw Man" - you can't address what was actually said, so you fabricate an easy but irrelevant target and go after that. Read what you quoted, and demonstrate that's wrong instead.


The problem with that whole "fat and happy" approach - with its consequent complete indifference to the startup threshold - is that the gaming world has moved on. New players are no longer disposable resources deployed for the entertainment of well-established players.

Why should it be just as hard for a new player to get started as it was for the old-timers? If you can find an argument that is likely to persuade new players to subscribe to EVE I might reconsider my position. But it won't be "we had it tough, therefore so must everyone else" - that's quite likely to have the opposite effect.


You don't appear to understand what a strawman is. I directly addressed your issue with the game's 'barriers to entry'. Directly addressed it. That's not how a strawman works.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2016-11-21 02:38:27 UTC
I've been seeing OP complain about PvP in many different threads. Always about something else: it's the Logi, it's the EWAR, now it's propulsion jamming ....... how exactly do you envision PvP? Everyone in the same ship, with nothing but the same guns on it? Then complain about n+1 ?

..... no tackle. ffs. How do you PvP without tackle??
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2016-11-21 02:41:14 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
I've been seeing OP complain about PvP in many different threads. Always about something else: it's the Logi, it's the EWAR, now it's propulsion jamming ....... how exactly do you envision PvP? Everyone in the same ship, with nothing but the same guns on it? Then complain about n+1 ?

..... no tackle. ffs. How do you PvP without tackle??


It's all about the alpha Blink

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

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