EVE General Discussion

we had a fight in 7rm yesterday, 4-5 fleets of 10-20 people each, wrecks all over the place and a lot of fun
maybe you should try to hit the undock button once and leave highsec..

just because you are risk averse does not mean others are

Just want to say that two can play the e-war game and scamblers, webs and nosferatus can be used defensively.

There's too much denial among established players.

EVE has a lot of "barriers to entry" that make it difficult to become established in the game.

Clearly a thread titled "Problem with EVE is..." isn't going the get anything done, but it does highlight something that appears in many threads where people look for ways to make the game more accessible:

... long-established "SP-fat and happy" players using well-practiced, slickly presented, but unsupportable arguments which serve only to protect their advantages. Some of you should be thinking a bit more seriously about the consequences of successfully suppressing all such discussions in favor of keeping "your" EVE unchanged.

This is the ideal moment (and possibly the last opportunity) to find ways to address startup issues like the new player PvP risk-aversion mentioned in the OP.

These days they have many options, and there's no justification for a new player to accept the old MMO model: nubs have to waste large amounts of time "paying their dues" as cannon-fodder for experienced players (or the RL friends of experienced players, who always seem to get a free pass on "startup hell").

Experienced players and forum-warriors should be among those looking for workable compromises that bring people into the game without breaking it. What isn't a good start is being obliged to teach new players that they can be forced into wildly asymmetrical PvP anywhere, have no practical way to avoid "non-consensual" PvP, and can't trust anyone they meet in-game.

I knew RvB was going downhill (hence why I left) but with attitudes like that, in a PVP alliance, their bar must have dropped a lot.

Are you trying to demonstrate what I was saying about established players by example, or just logic-impaired? The claim about "whining 'EVE is too hard for newbros'" is just a "Straw Man" - you can't address what was actually said, so you fabricate an easy but irrelevant target and go after that. Read what you quoted, and demonstrate that's wrong instead.


The problem with that whole "fat and happy" approach - with its consequent complete indifference to the startup threshold - is that the gaming world has moved on. New players are no longer disposable resources deployed for the entertainment of well-established players.

Why should it be just as hard for a new player to get started as it was for the old-timers? If you can find an argument that is likely to persuade new players to subscribe to EVE I might reconsider my position. But it won't be "we had it tough, therefore so must everyone else" - that's quite likely to have the opposite effect.

Text doesn't transmit a sarcastic tone of voice very well.

I've been seeing OP complain about PvP in many different threads. Always about something else: it's the Logi, it's the EWAR, now it's propulsion jamming ....... how exactly do you envision PvP? Everyone in the same ship, with nothing but the same guns on it? Then complain about n+1 ?

..... no tackle. ffs. How do you PvP without tackle??