EVE New Citizens Q&A

I've been playing WoW since vanilla.

And I've been playing EO since Thursday. (2 days)

To fulfill a mining job, I made my first visit to Losec space. And the second I arrived, I was immediately fired upon by two sources. I don't know it was player ships. Or NPC ships / stations (if there is such a thing). So I immediately warped away.

This is fine. The constant threat of danger is exciting.

But my question is, how do I judge whether I am outgunned or not?

Last night was easy. I just started the game. And there were two of them. And I was in Losec. Chances are I am ALWAYS going to be outgunned for a while. But eventually I won't be. But how will I know?

In WoW, you could always look at the opposing players level. But things are obviously not that simple in EO.

Should I just stay out of Losec for a few weeks? Or a few months? Or years?

This game's focus is PVP; the PVE missions / exploration / encounters aren't as developed as in other MMOs, so they get boring pretty fast.

For PVP, and for determining whether you're "outgunned", you need to learn to recognize the ships and what they can do. You need to build yourself a ships chart, like this one, so that you can see what the enemy can do.

In general, ships in EVE are designed in a rock-paper-scissors style, with certain ships having a very high chance of trumping other ships if they encounter them. Obviously, combat ships will win against mining ships or transport ships, but there are more abilities than just DPS: electronic jamming can prevent damage, remote repairs can heal damage, and there are many different weapons and many different styles of defense (armor, shields, speed, signature, cloaking/avoidance, etc.).

You will be outmatched in the beginning, but the only way to learn is to put yourself in PVP situations and see what happens. Guides will only take you so far.

EVE University has a pretty good general ship guide, and also a ships matrix where you can click each ship and see recommendations and how to fit it properly.


In general:


Tech 1 (base) ships are versatile, all purpose ships good in a multitude of situations. These ships are good when you don't know what the enemy might bring to the fight.

Frigates - rely on small size and speed to survive, typically used for scouting, jamming, and light DPS roles.
Destroyers - kill frigates; bigger size, but not more armor or shields, so they fall easily to bigger ships.
Cruisers - versatile, good DPS, rely on actual tank (armor or shields) for defense, but still have decent mobility
Battlecruisers - attack cruiser-sized platforms, deliver increased DPS while maintaining the relative mobility of cruisers
Battleships - slow bricks designed to deliver heavy DPS while sitting there and tanking it, annoyingly low mobility


Tech 2 ships are advanced, super-specialized versions of the Tech 1 base ships. They maximize one ability, while also gaining huge weaknesses. These ships are good when you know what the enemy will bring, or for fleet situations where you're comfortable with specific roles (DPS, repairs, jamming, scouting, etc.) for different members of the fleet.

Interceptors - extreme speed, very little damage, good scouts and tackle
Cov-ops - ability to fly around cloaked, for scouting and for providing approach vectors on unsuspecting enemy fleets
Interdictors - AoE warp disruption, to lock down enemy fleets
Heavy Assault Cruisers - good DPS on a high-resistance shield/armor ship that retains cruiser mobility
Heavy Interdictor Cruisers - AoE warp disruption with more resilience than interdictors
Recons - ability to fly cloaked and apply extremely long range jamming once they uncloak
Logistics - long range remote repairs (very nice fleet healers, basically)
Command Ships - Fleet Buffs; CCP is in the process of a major revamp for these ships in the next expansion this month
Black Ops - covert battleships that can move entire covert-ops fleets around the map and into enemy territory

Tech 3 ships are advanced ships that have a gimmick of some sort, either a built-in ability that only that ship has, or the capability to switch between various modes of operation. To fly these ships, you'll require a fleet to pre-condition the battle scene so that your ship can then apply its special gimmick to the maximum effect.

Tactical Destroyers - can switch between various modes of operation, gaining different combat bonuses in each mode
Strategic Cruisers - these can be assembled / reassembled in station, like lego's, gaining different bonuses or immunities


Capital Ships. These ships are NOT designed to be solo ships; you need an alt or a friend with a cyno beacon to even move these ships around. These are large, expensive ships that can only be manufactured and deployed in null or lowsec space, and are used in large wars to destroy and conquer stations and outposts and claim territory.

Dreadnoughts - gun ships used to destroy stations or other large ships
Carriers - used to defend or destroy other capital ships
Super-carriers - same as above, taken to 11
Force Auxiliaries - remote repairs (healing) at the capital ship scale
Titans - have a doomsday weapon for massive DPS, and also can move entire fleets around the map


Game Peculiarities:

Ships are designed to function against ships of equal size. A battleship won't fear a frigate's measly DPS, but at the same time it won't really be able to hit it with its big battleship guns; the frigate can orbit closely and get "under the guns" to survive. This makes it possible for wolfpack fleets of frigates to attack and destroy bigger ships. Groups of newbies in cheap ships have a chance against the veterans, in this game. Unlike WoW, where hundreds of level 10 newbies can attack a level 80 player and just die horribly without landing a hit.

You also shouldn't be afraid of combat / PVP; it's a game. It's relatively easy to make ISK in this game; fly cheap ships and go have some fun blowing them up vs. veteran opponents, it's the only way you'll learn, and it's where the fun is.

This game is more like a RTS game where you play a single unit, than a dog-fight game. Ships won't give you tricks up your sleeves (weapons you can activate situationally to save the fight); instead, you pre-fit your ship to deliver just complete carnage in one very specific situation, and you bring friends or pick your fights to control the encounter so it matches your "complete carnage" scenario.

Find a good corp to join, for mentors and fleet buddies.

Everything Memphis said was spot on, I just want to emphasize this bit. Anyone coming from a Theme park MMO is going to try to apply the lessons learned in those MMOs to EvE and it is a dead-end.

Most MMOs Devs create content and players play that content. In EvE Devs create tools and most dev time is spent making sure those tools are balanced and remain useful, avoiding or removing power creep. So in theme park games, those rewards you get from doing tutorial quests are quickly discarded for "better" weapons or armor. In EvE a player can choose to specialize in frigates for years of game time and still be a valued member of any alliance.

This is cool, this is great, but it has a downside. EvE devs do NOT spend a lot of time developing PVE content. It's there, but it can be a trap for an unsuspecting Theme park player who has been trained to consider the PvE as the "Content" and the PvP as the "Fluff." EvE uses PvE as "Fluff" and PvP as the "Content." PvE is really just a means of generating income. It is not designed to entertain as in Theme park games, and is deliberately repetative where Theme park PvE attempts to be original.
PvE is designed to increase interaction with other players, either positive (cooperative) or negative (antagonistic). Devs have pretty much stated in Fanfest that they don't introduce a new mechanic or tool unless they have a pretty good idea that it will lead to more ships being blown up.

So those asteroids, they are content CREATORS. They are there to create an excuse for ships to be blown up. Missions, exploration, incursions, PI, yup, all there to give other ships an opportunity to blow up your ships. The isk and other rewards are there to encourage you to participate despite the risks. Think of EvE PvE as "dailies" boring and repetitive, but they provide a benefit worth the repetitiveness.

Players are Content in EvE. Never forget this and you will go far.

Day one Newbros are legitimately useful in PvP right out of the box.
Legitimately dangerous as soon as they realize this.

The only thing missing is knowledge.

OK , friends Never hurt the situation granted.
I've seen packs of newbros Savagely maul gangs of veterans.

Best advice I can give you , Get out there and make some friends that PvP ,
this may result in you getting shot in the face a couple of times but that's OK,
it means you found people that PvP, now befriend them!

I know that might seem stupid and counter intuitive but tbh ,
most of the PvP lads I've ever known are maaaad chilled out and love plucky newbros who can take a knock or two.
Seriously, go try it, provided you don't fly off the handle and start crying you should be making friends quickly.

Ask if you can tag along and be tackle would be a popular question.

Silly me, and I thought Drunken Roams were a thing. Just fit a catheter and a drinking helmet and you're good to go.

This game doesn't have a "progression" of ships, like other MMO's have gear progression where level 30 gear becomes useless at level 40. Even the most basic T1 frigate can function pretty close to advanced T2 or T3 ships intended for the same role, if you train your skills and install high-grade modules and weapons on the frigate.

All ships are used; you will definitely see veterans flying T1 ships, for a variety of reasons. One of the biggest reasons that you don't see in other games is "cheap ships"; 20 people in T1 frigates that cost 1 million each vs. a 60 million battlecruiser = win for the 20, even if most of them die when taking out that bigger ship.

Join one of the large newbie-recruiting groups, Pandemic Horde, Karma Fleet, Brave Newbies, etc., if you want to experience this.

This.

Anyone can blap a t1 frigate in a faction cruiser; it takes a skilled pilot to take out a faction cruiser in a T1 frigate.

If you are getting into pvp, you may find my blog useful (see sig). While the fits from the earlier posts are out of date, it is a pretty good record of my efforts to become 'good' at pvp. I try my best to be very transparent about my losses; ideally, other people learn from my mistakes so that they can make fewer of their own.

You will learn from experience what you can and can not kill. it all depends on what you fly and how well you fly it. as well as what you are trying to fight.

for example, a rails fitted moa with pasive tank will be killed by a brawler frig.

pvp takes experience, you can speed up the learning by getting a mentor or joining a corp that does pvp.

Here's a cookie, now let that be the last mention of your previous experience as it means exactly nothing here :)

You will know you are outgunned because eventually you will have enough combat EXPERIENCE to make that call. There is no such thing as a higher or lower level player or ship in EvE. A young player in a frigate can waste an older player in a battleship if they have the right strategy, and that doesn't come from SP but from real skills learned in game.

Try to think of EvE as a nice break from hand holding theme park MMO's. Here what separates us more than our skillpoints is our actual skill. It may seem hard to believe from the bottom of the SP totum but i speak the truth

Get in touch by EvE mail if you like OP.