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[Proposal] Properly nerfing incursions while preserving their good side

Author
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-01-18 08:58:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
I'm going to keep it short and sweet. This is about incursions in highsec by the way.

The good side of incursions is that it's an organized group activity where you can make new friends. Highsec was sorely lacking this type of opportunity. A MMO should always promote group activities like Incursions over solo play by tying it to better rewards.

The problem is not the 100 mil per hour, it's the fact that you can get 100 mil per hour for hours, every day, for as long as you can stomach it.

A proper nerf would include one of the following:
1) Reducing the rate at which Incursions appear in highsec and limiting their duration. There should not always be a highsec Incursion available, but when they are up, let the pilots flock to them for the ISK and LP. Limiting their duration means that at a certain point only the mothership site would remain to be completed.
2) Letting Incursion rewards decrease on an individual basis the more missions are completed. "You've done 50 missions in the last three days? You only get half rewards" or something like that.
3) A variation of the above, allow full rewards only for a fixed number of sites per day.

TL;DR: Incursions should remain good ISK per hour to preserve their attractiveness, but only for limited amounts of time to prevent them from overshadowing other ISK making activities completely.
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-01-18 16:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: TrollFace TrololMcFluf
WAAA MUMMY people in hsec are making is and i dont like it

WAAAA MUUUUMMMMMY

A video of the OP

Isnt the wittle baby cute

But seriously if you want to nerf 100m in hsec we must also nerf the 100m+ in nullsec as its pretty much completely risk free money with your blue space and intel channels.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-01-18 16:52:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
WAAA MUMMY people in hsec are making is and i dont like it

WAAAA MUUUUMMMMMY

A video of the OP

Isnt the wittle baby cute

But seriously if you want to nerf 100m in hsec we must also nerf the 100m+ in nullsec as its pretty much completely risk free money with your blue space and intel channels.


"Captain, the butt hurt meter is off the charts on this one. What shall we do? Ignore it, Scotty."

On a more serious note, I've done Incursions for a while as well and honestly most people expect a nerf from what I gathered during casual discussions.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#4 - 2012-01-18 17:41:16 UTC
Nerf high sec Incursion rewards

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-01-18 18:56:21 UTC
Why does everyone want hi sec nerfed?

It always seems to be a form of jealousy when I read these threads. If they are making good isk from doing incursions their way then good luck to them. If you want the same, go join them in hi sec for some risk free isk.

Null is just as bad to be honest. You can run plexes all day, every day without ever seeing a hostile. Where's the risk there?
Goose99
#6 - 2012-01-18 18:57:46 UTC
Nerf moon gooCool
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-01-18 20:22:25 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Nerf moon gooCool


THIS

Then remove local in nullsec

No local = no free intel = less reliable intel channels = more risk for your 100m+/H rewards
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#8 - 2012-01-18 21:20:45 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
Why does everyone want hi sec nerfed?

Because you can make more isk with out any risk in a highsec incursion than you could running sanctums out in null which is far more dangerous.

I say no isk without risk!

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-01-18 22:43:37 UTC
buff nullsec, nerf highsec into the ground

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Goose99
#10 - 2012-01-18 22:46:15 UTC
Wolodymyr wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:
Why does everyone want hi sec nerfed?

Because you can make more isk with out any risk in a highsec incursion than you could running sanctums out in null which is far more dangerous.

I say no isk without risk!


I, null bear, stay in the deep end of blue sov null ass, where isk flows free and you don't see hostiles for weeks on end.Bear

In highsec, every grey lurking around the corner can gank you.
curedCrow
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-01-18 23:01:24 UTC
You FAIL to mention all the greys and there multiple ways of griefing a fleet AND multiple was of ganging a fleet. Anyone ever here of a 10 man blackbird fleet wiping out a 10 man 50 billion isk fleet? there are plenty of risks running incursions in high sec. While in 0.0 someone enters local you dock. someone leave local you go back to making 150 million plus isk an hour.

Just because someone besides you is making isk doesn't mean it op and unfair. Get over yourselves. CCP will not Nerf high sec incursions.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2012-01-18 23:06:28 UTC
curedCrow wrote:
You FAIL to mention all the greys and there multiple ways of griefing a fleet AND multiple was of ganging a fleet. Anyone ever here of a 10 man blackbird fleet wiping out a 10 man 50 billion isk fleet? there are plenty of risks running incursions in high sec. While in 0.0 someone enters local you dock. someone leave local you go back to making 150 million plus isk an hour.

Just because someone besides you is making isk doesn't mean it op and unfair. Get over yourselves. CCP will not Nerf high sec incursions.


ahahaha where did you hear this 150M ISK/hr nonsense, that's hilariously difficult to break, especially with only one account

you also assume that every blue is friendly, because you're a slackjaw who has never heard of awoxers

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-01-18 23:18:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
curedCrow wrote:
You FAIL to mention all the greys and there multiple ways of griefing a fleet AND multiple was of ganging a fleet. Anyone ever here of a 10 man blackbird fleet wiping out a 10 man 50 billion isk fleet? there are plenty of risks running incursions in high sec. While in 0.0 someone enters local you dock. someone leave local you go back to making 150 million plus isk an hour.

Just because someone besides you is making isk doesn't mean it op and unfair. Get over yourselves. CCP will not Nerf high sec incursions.



You aparently don't know what 0.0 life is like...allow me to calrify for your noob brain.

when someone etners local in 0.0..we don't just dock up or safe up...we get our ships..and rightly kick said visitors sorry @$$ right back out with the approrpaite answer...at a minmum track him with various intelligence channels...or call in for back up...and its qutie fun to watch.

As far as the 150 mil isk...heh...there are easier ways to make that money in 0.0...and incursions are not the only source (in-fact its too bothersome it seems...i dont hear about incursions very often in 0.0).


The problem here smarty pants is people are milking the system that shouldn't be allowing them to do so so easily...and while I'm torn on the subject of nerfing...I think both parties are right...and wrong.

Incursions where designed to force peolpe to do them in large groups in order to gain the best rewards...but too many and that starts to flatline if not crash.

Yet they can be greifed and infilitrated easily.

A investigation should be looked into to be sure...but not nearly as dramatic or bad as both parties to be sure.

Also bear in mind that incursions in 0.0 are dangerous....you get the safety of not worrying about bubbles and such.

In 0.0... ANYTHING goes.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152

James1122
Perimeter Trade and Distribution Inc
#14 - 2012-01-19 00:02:29 UTC
Why don't you just make it that once the MOM site has spawned no more other sites spawn. That way the incursion can't be left open for days to be farmed.....

....

DoraTheExplora Taft
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#15 - 2012-01-19 01:15:14 UTC  |  Edited by: DoraTheExplora Taft
I strongly support this!

It is not fair to the rest of the eve community for incursion runners to be able to farm them and refuse to pop the mothership leaving the constellation rendered disabled for weeks possibly.

To those who argue it is somehow not a fair stance to take that they should not be farmable. How does it fit into the lore that the incentive for players should be to never allow the incursions to be defeated? In some cases people are actually taking action to prevent the defeat of the mothership.

This is obviously not the way the feature was intended to be used.

If not a hard limit I would support any sort of strong incentive to kill the mothership. I mean after all isn't that the whole point of fighting an incursion?
tu at
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-01-19 01:47:15 UTC
nerf tech moons
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#17 - 2012-01-19 02:31:47 UTC
curedCrow wrote:
You FAIL to mention all the greys and there multiple ways of griefing a fleet AND multiple was of ganging a fleet. Anyone ever here of a 10 man blackbird fleet wiping out a 10 man 50 billion isk fleet?.

No I have never heard of T1 cruisers killing at a 1 to 1 ratio 5 billion isk ships. Is this some sort of wierd incursion thing? Or were you wardecked and just REALLY bad at pvp? Honestly in any scenario I can think of, if you lose 50 billion isk in ships to an equal sized gang of T1 cruisers you deserve to explode.

Goose99 wrote:
I, null bear, stay in the deep end of blue sov null ass, where isk flows free and you don't see hostiles for weeks on end.

You are doing it wrong. Also this is kind of an issue with the horrible NAP fest that null is evolving towards.

Goose99 wrote:
In highsec, every grey lurking around the corner can gank you.

As opposed to nullsec (or even lowsec) where every neut that wanders into your space actually is trying to kill you.

tu at wrote:
nerf tech moons

Yeah tech moons are kind of bullshit because it's only the power block leaders who see any benefit from them. All the front line grunts just have to fight over them.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544

Rocky Deadshot
In The Goo
EVE Trade Alliance
#18 - 2012-01-22 07:04:48 UTC
My proposal-

Nerf income to be on par with lvl 4s using an on par fleet with no competition for 50mins (but registering in as an hour) as your gage. The reason for only having the 50min increment is to compensate for competition and fleet comp not being ideal. Ideally this would mean that someone in ANY ship would have a choice to run lvl4s or run incursions and make about the same amount of isk either way, hopefully incursions will make a little bit more to help encourage moving the systems and looking for fleets.

Make VGs harder... particularly making tama's do enough dps that they have to be cleared in OTAs. Also adding sites to all of the types would be fun.

Make the MoM appear in the mobilizing phase, and make the mobilizing phase (if it doesnt already) start 72hrs after the incursion goes live. (or more).

Basically my ideal here is, incursions should be a healthy alternative, and only slightly more profitable, to lvl4s for Hisec. Frankly even if their payout was on par with lvl4s you would still see plenty of people flying them because of the human interaction.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#19 - 2012-01-22 07:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
james1122 wrote:
Why don't you just make it that once the MOM site has spawned no more other sites spawn. That way the incursion can't be left open for days to be farmed.....


I'd say that would work pretty well. Turn incursions into commercial fishing. A High stakes race to earn until enough fish are caught that they season's over.

Maybe go with once Sansha's influence gets to 0% no other sites spawn (not 100% sure on the MoM spawn mechanics) but the Mothership does. (The influence probably shouldn't regen much once it's there, doing a MoM site at high sansha influence would be impossible were it allowed to regen a lot)

No nerf to the income per site, or added difficulty to achieve that income. Just makes it into a race.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-01-22 09:48:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Wolodymyr wrote:
tu at wrote:
nerf tech moons

Yeah tech moons are kind of bullshit because it's only the power block leaders who see any benefit from them. All the front line grunts just have to fight over them.


You assume that fighting is a chore which people in 0.0 'have' to do and don't enjoy at all.

Having said that, yes, nerf tech moons, they're dumb, nerf them as well as highsec incursions.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

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