Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Again. I have hunted more than 80% of everyone who has played Eve. Probably closer to 90% of everyone that has played Eve.

I have an impressive killboard compared to most EvE players.

There is no such thing as risk free PvE. This is EvE 101.

Ships are less safe in space than they are docked.

That is simply how EvE is.

Congratz. You too are in the top quintile, if not the top decimal.

Granted, its not much of an achievement.

And afk cloaky camping plays are part in how little of EvE game play actually involves pvp.

Hence the need to nerf afk cloaky camping and buffing local (technically creating alternate ways for players to consistently access real time information independent of alliances).

Edit
You have actually only killed 24 manned ships including pods. I finally had to take a look :-).

God job on the POS array kills though. Very impressive housecleaning.

The board does not measure skill.

We simply have more experience than at least 80% of other EvE players. Which is not much to brag about given the absolutely horrendous levels of pvp in general.

Buffing local is not new. I have been talking about improving real time information availability for individual players independent of alliance filters for quite some time now.

Anything that increases the perception of safety makes null-sec less safe.

No such thing as risk free PvE. You are really going to have to try and wrap your head around this one at some point.

But thank you for validating the perception that nerfing afk cloaky camping and buffing local will make null-sec more safe.

If you think that is true, then doubtless many others will believe it too. Brilliant!

Its exactly that kind of perception that will encourage people to undock their ships more often and put them in harm's way.

Because nothing is safer than being docked up

And

Because content.

You are being irrational.

If you can get away 100% of the time now, then what would a nerf of afk cloaky camping and buff of local achieve?

Bingo

You can still only get away 100% of the time.

100% being the maximum % you can get away with.

Your argument fails on its lack of internal logic.

=========

Things going wrong is a function of ships undocked.

More ships undocked equals more ships killed.

More ships undocked equals less safe null-sec.

For nothing is as safe as remaining docked.

Because content.

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Nerfing afk cloaky camping and buffing local

Gives more ships undocked

Which equals more ships killed

More ships undocked equals less safe null-sec

For nothing is as safe as remaining docked

Because content

============

Its not exactly rocket science.

Anyways,

I understand that it is gratifying to assume malice and self-interest.

But the fact of the matter is that pvp is very uncommon. To the point where even lethargic efforts place players like me and Sonya in the top quintile of pvp players.

This is a disaster.

A balance between end product production and kills would have to see kills treble from today's numbers (1 trillion destroyed, 3 trillion produced).

The only way to achieve a better balance is to enact measures that see players undock more often.

CCP can do some things: Replacing outside lotteries with very clever mining rats is one variant. Rats are obviously going to be killing more ships come tomorrow.

Players can joins some of the NPC mining corps already, so we will see if that spills over to null-sec. Meaning of course that you can mine with your very own rat escort. Or you have a procedural small gang you can mine with, and a procedural back up fleet in case you are attacked.

That is what the doctors in this thread ordered, right? Of course you can pve for as long as you have back up.

The perception of safety, without being more safe.

It gives more pvp.

Safer pve is not my goal.

More ships undocked and vulnerable to pvp is my goal.

Because content, silly

I can incidentally claim independent discovery on the mining rat change that is coming in tomorrow. I raised that as an option a while back before my hiatus in this thread. Yay, me.

Procedural rats are incidentally also the way to lower bounty payouts. A wave of rats losing a battle could always warp off, then re-enter the chain of rooms the normal way like any decent human would. Destroying MTUs and rejoining their mates still fighting by entering through the accelerators.

For example. What fun.

Or why not let players blue to rats hang out at sites and wait for whatever comes? No need for rats to do blue on blue until they are attacked, right?

The opportunities are endless...But first we need players to undock a lot more often. To achieve that we need:

1. Nerfed afk cloaky camping (5 hour timer)
2. Buffed Local (alliance independent real time information).

Because content, silly.

1. Peak time epic PvP (it does not get more epic that blowing up two citadels).

2. Found a pve player in a system that was not cloaky camped. The player screwed up and died.

When I said that player kills are 1/3 of what they should be for a better balance between production and losses, I did not say player kills = 0.

I meant that afk cloaky camping keeps players safe by keeping then snugly docked up. Nerf afk cloaky campers (with a 5 hour timer) and see more ships undocked in systems not cloaky camped to give more burning wrecks (or whatever wrecks will do tomorrow after the update).

Its all about creating the perception of safety. Null sec is never actually safe.

So:

Nerf afk cloaky camping (with a 5 hour timer)
Buff local (with an alliance independent real time intelligence system)
....
Profit (because content)

I am glad you think you are good at something. Because written words are certainly not your friends.

Let me explain my position to you yet again. For I am charitable like that:

My goal is for more ships to undock in null sec because more undocked ships give more chances to kill ships in null sec.

Nerfed afk cloaky camping (5hr timer) and buffed local (independent real time information) achieve that goal.

Now that I have checked for June 2016 (its the month I found wh data for):

wh space
23000 ships destroyed
6000 pods destroyed

null sec
264000 ships destroyed
152000 pods destroyed

Yah, there is not much to be gained from hyping wormholes. Even doubling the kills there per month would not amount to anything other than a slight statistical anomaly (and if fights happen there all the time...then perhaps stop arming your ships with fireworks launchers...because very little is dying per day in wh space).

I do want it to be psychologically easier to undock and I certainly want it to be easier to catch ships.

Nerfing afk cloaky camping and buffing local are just tools to that end.

You should lay of the cool aid.

My suggestions are not worth the high drama and hyperbole.

The chance of an undocked pve ship getting killed per hour will not change in any significant way.

afk cloaky campers are hideously inefficient hunters. Its inherent to afk.

The player is not around, or can't be arsed, or his back-up can't be arsed every time a ship undocks to pve in a cloaky camped system.

What increases is the number of hours a ship is undocked. So yah, if the isk/hr earning stays the same, then pve pilots will net more isk every month.

I am in favour of lower isk/hr revenue. Though preferrably in a targetted way that lowers the extreme earning outliers.

Its a philosophical choice. If you want more ships undocked in space, then you will also have more ships undocked in space doing pve.

You caught the point of local needing a buff (alliance independent real time information)?

For example that any system jump within x gates gives a toggable newsfeed flash "6 neuts in xx-x (3 jumps)". Something like that (its just a conceptual outline of what I am thinking of).

Income denial is indeed a valid form gameplay. But not 0 effort, 0 risk income denial. I am not using hyperbole here. Afk cloaky camping is 0 effort, 0 risk.

Maintaing the viability of income denial is the main reason why I think afk cloaky camping should be tempered, and not terminated (so a 5 hour timer. Not a device that can scan down cloaked ships).

I maintain that the risk per hour remains the same. Its the overall income that would increase as the result of pve ships being undocked more often and for longer periods of time. I am not adverse to adjusting bounties (through weighted towards targeting high revenue generating outlier ratting strategies).

Yah, I tried arguing for quite some time that changes to local is a distinct and separate discussion from afk cloak camping. Deserving perhaps its own thread. Posters here did not agree, so I went with the flow. In a contrarian way.

I kind of liked the standing aware element of it. Just the kind of newsflash you get in combat anyway (damage 658), but with real time information in nearby systems. So unavailable if you are docked up (to add another element to why undocking is good).

You may have missed the part of the discussion, but the pvp portion of EvE is disasterously low. Very little effort is required to become a top quintile pvp'er (measured by activity). I see the need to treble ships killed in the game (for better balance between production and destruction is the reason I chose that threshold).

Its quite upsetting frankly. EvE data sort of like sausages. The less you know about whats in them, the better.

Ahhh how wonderful assumptions are....