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Idea: Rework Bounty System Number #3526Unsubscribe

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Gangolf Ovaert
Zentarim
OnlyFleets.
#1 - 2016-11-14 12:17:32 UTC
Hi,

first: Sorry for my bad english

like other people before me, I've been thinking about the current bounty system, his advantages and problems. A functioning system can create a complete new activity for professional groups or single players.

Current system:

  • bounty can be given freely to every player
  • the whole bounty can't be claimed
  • Cash out payments are often not worth the effort / risk



The following problems came to my mind, which a new better system must be able to deal with / solve.

  • It must not be legible with Alts
  • It should allow killing missions
  • Head money may not be paid. For a Rookie Ship
  • It should be simple
  • It should not be manipulated by scams
  • You should not simply kill players with head money.


My idea would be to create an additional tab with "bounty" as the headline in the Char Info of each character and display the existing bounty-"orders".


Possible conditions:

  • Ship's value must be over amount X
  • Ship type
  • Period of time



for Example:

(total Bounty: 200,000,000 ISK (still under the char picture)

Bounty 125,000,000 ISK
Condition: Ship value over 150,000,000 ISK
Creator: Markus
Availability: everyone

Head money 15,000,000 ISK
Condition: Podkill
Creator: Steven
Remarks: Pls send me the Corpse
Availability: Corp: Headhunting Inc.

Head money 60,000,000 ISK
Condition: None
Creator: Heinz
Availability: Players: Matze

Head money Corporation total: 200,000,000 ISK

Head money 200,000,000 ISK
Payout: ISK 20,000,000 per kill (payout per kill)
Condition: Ship value over 30,000,000 ISK
Creator: Heinz
Availability: everyone


Every Player can only see the to him accessible Orders. The Player with the bounty on his head can't see who can access the orders if there are not public.


Conclusion:

You can share bounty-orders with every player or only trusted player / groups
By the free choice of conditions, the player decides how far his bounty can be exploited. (Insurance + bounty etc.).
Simple .... Hey seriously, this is EVE ¯ \ _ (ツ) _ / ¯
Bounty-"orders" should not be stonatable
Players with head money are protected in Highsec by Concord and will not be used as e.g. With a killright (free 4 all)

Again, sorry for my bad google translator english.

Greetings a greedy German

Gangolf
Lorno Death
Sternenbastarde
#2 - 2016-11-14 13:16:43 UTC
The main problem with bounties is: They are pointless!

It does not effect anything in EVE. When I got in touch with bounties at the first time I thought it es an amzing feature. Now it is pointless for me. For Low and 0.0 it could be a reason to hunt people with killrights. But especially for High Sec it is not possible due to Concord etc.


But generating a Killright with bounties seems to be too powerfull. Nearly everybody would be free to shoot...

Complicated issue. Best would be to remove this feature or to design it in a full new way.
Gangolf Ovaert
Zentarim
OnlyFleets.
#3 - 2016-11-14 13:39:42 UTC
Yeah, thats exactly what i wrote.

Gangolf Ovaert wrote:

Players with bounty are protected in Highsec by Concord and will not be used as e.g. With a killright (free 4 all)


Gangolf Ovaert wrote:

Current system:

  • Cash out payments are often not worth the effort / risk

Aehren Armitage
#4 - 2016-11-14 14:06:49 UTC
I actually really like this idea. Individuals who don't really care what/how someone dies can just list the bounty with as few conditions as possible, but if someone wants to incite something particularly horrendous they can dump a large bounty and set the conditions as they like.

+1

Our lives are not our own.

From womb to tomb, we are bound to others, past and present.

And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future.
Captain Awkward
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2016-11-14 14:08:33 UTC
Quote:
Bounty 125,000,000 ISK
Condition: Ship value over 150,000,000 ISK
Creator: Markus
Availability: everyone


Exploitable. Put that on my head. I buy a BS hull, enshure it, blow myself up with my alt. Get the enshurence, the bounty and the salvage.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#6 - 2016-11-14 14:39:16 UTC
Captain Awkward wrote:
Quote:
Bounty 125,000,000 ISK
Condition: Ship value over 150,000,000 ISK
Creator: Markus
Availability: everyone


Exploitable. Put that on my head. I buy a BS hull, enshure it, blow myself up with my alt. Get the enshurence, the bounty and the salvage.

this right here is your issue.

now if killrights were searchable from the bounty office you might have the basis for something to work on, still have the above issue to get around but you would be on your way.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Gangolf Ovaert
Zentarim
OnlyFleets.
#7 - 2016-11-14 15:12:37 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Captain Awkward wrote:
Quote:
Bounty 125,000,000 ISK
Condition: Ship value over 150,000,000 ISK
Creator: Markus
Availability: everyone


Exploitable. Put that on my head. I buy a BS hull, enshure it, blow myself up with my alt. Get the enshurence, the bounty and the salvage.

this right here is your issue.

now if killrights were searchable from the bounty office you might have the basis for something to work on, still have the above issue to get around but you would be on your way.



Yes it would be exploitable, but only if the player set the bounty like this...
Captain Awkward
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2016-11-14 15:36:51 UTC
Gangolf Ovaert wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Captain Awkward wrote:
Quote:
Bounty 125,000,000 ISK
Condition: Ship value over 150,000,000 ISK
Creator: Markus
Availability: everyone


Exploitable. Put that on my head. I buy a BS hull, enshure it, blow myself up with my alt. Get the enshurence, the bounty and the salvage.

this right here is your issue.

now if killrights were searchable from the bounty office you might have the basis for something to work on, still have the above issue to get around but you would be on your way.



Yes it would be exploitable, but only if the player set the bounty like this...


How would you set it up so its not exploytable ?

Ship value over 150m. Bounty at 20m? Yes I cant exploit that by myself anymore. But who is going to make a profit out of it when you need to bring a ship that is
a) powerfull enough to kill a 150m ship in time before concord arives and
b) cheap eough to have someting left of the bounty.

Its the same problem with the current setup in highsec. In order to get something out of the bountys, you need to find a target in a ship that is worth a lot and killable with little ISK effort to make a profit.

As soon as we go into lowsec, people are going to kill each other bounty or no bounty.
Gangolf Ovaert
Zentarim
OnlyFleets.
#9 - 2016-11-14 15:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Gangolf Ovaert
for example for 200 Mil (rember ingame prices are not zkill prices)

Like i already said before, you set the conditions for the kill. If you belive, ISK doubler would double your isk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Everything is exploitable if you are stupid enough.

Set the Bounty not public, only for some Bountyhunters --> solved
Memphis Baas
#10 - 2016-11-14 15:42:35 UTC
Gangolf Ovaert wrote:


  • It must not be legible with Alts
  • It should not be manipulated by scams
  • It should be simple


  • It should allow killing missions
  • You should not simply kill players with head money.
  • Ship's value must be over amount X



The first 3 items are impossible. I can have Alts on completely separate accounts with completely separate emails logging in from a completely separate location. I can have "Alts" by just asking someone else to help me; they kill me and we split the bounty 50/50.

Easy to say "should be simple" but nothing is simple. Especially if you don't want people to be able to scam.

For the last 3 items, CCP can't control what players will do. I can check what bounties are on my character by using a neutral alt or asking a friend. Then I'll know what ship NOT to fly. And if you allow the bounty to create a kill mission without Concord, then it's just a war declaration / will be exploited as such.

You're asking for the pie in the sky. "I want a game where I can do anything I want, anything at all." Impossible.
Gangolf Ovaert
Zentarim
OnlyFleets.
#11 - 2016-11-14 15:48:58 UTC
I dont ask for something.. i made a suggestion.

Like i wrote in my FIRST post
Simple .... Hey seriously, this is EVE ¯ \ _ (ツ) _ / ¯

Yes it is not possible to prevent people using alts to kill themself, but you can make it less attractive (conditions)

Like i wrote in the Thread, everone can only see the accessible Bounty"contracts". Random Players can only see the the Details for Public Contracts, but the details for private contracts are hidden.
Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
#12 - 2016-11-14 17:28:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Ocean Ormand
Lorno Death wrote:
The main problem with bounties is: They are pointless!

It does not effect anything in EVE. When I got in touch with bounties at the first time I thought it es an amzing feature. Now it is pointless for me. For Low and 0.0 it could be a reason to hunt people with killrights. But especially for High Sec it is not possible due to Concord etc.


But generating a Killright with bounties seems to be too powerfull. Nearly everybody would be free to shoot...

Complicated issue. Best would be to remove this feature or to design it in a full new way.


Bounties are pointless in low and null because people dont need a reason to hunt someone. Bounties could be a thing in high sec if they allowed for aggro acquisition, but ccp long ago decided that having a bounty would not give anybody a right to to shoot you. Thus, bounties are meaningless in the only place where bounties could be a thing.
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#13 - 2016-11-15 01:05:29 UTC
Moved to Player Feature and ideas.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#14 - 2016-11-15 02:33:15 UTC
So, basically, a contract system.

I rather like that idea.

A few things though:

Bounties shouldn't generate killrights. You should, however, be able to attach killrights TO the bounty. Thus if you have a killright you can post the bounty contract with conditions and slot the killright on to it so that only the person that takes the contract gets the killright.

Also, I really do think collateral should be an option. This might seem silly, but keep in mind you're opting for what's basically an extension to the contract system here. A collateral payment could be useful in this system, essentially allowing creation of bounty contracts that are more like a wager. e.g. "I"ll bet you 400m I can find that guy's blingy rattlesnake and kill it within a week" means that the dude willing to put up collateral is probably a lot more confident in his ability to do the job, rather than some just that's just accepting contracts for the hell of it, which is a way to allow people that want to put up public access contracts a little extra control over the caliber of pilots doing their bounties. Even if its an alt metagaming the system, you still got X value destroyed, which is what you were paying for anyway.
Gangolf Ovaert
Zentarim
OnlyFleets.
#15 - 2016-11-15 07:51:13 UTC
Ocean Ormand wrote:

Bounties are pointless in low and null because people dont need a reason to hunt someone. Bounties could be a thing in high sec if they allowed for aggro acquisition, but ccp long ago decided that having a bounty would not give anybody a right to to shoot you. Thus, bounties are meaningless in the only place where bounties could be a thing.



Thats exactly the problem.

Bounty could be a big deal, but atm it is not worth...
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2016-11-15 10:17:53 UTC
Gangolf Ovaert wrote:
Yeah, thats exactly what i wrote.

Gangolf Ovaert wrote:

Players with bounty are protected in Highsec by Concord and will not be used as e.g. With a killright (free 4 all)


Gangolf Ovaert wrote:

Current system:

  • Cash out payments are often not worth the effort / risk



But this wouldn´t change after implementing such a system.

-1
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-11-15 13:44:13 UTC
Gangolf Ovaert wrote:
Ocean Ormand wrote:

Bounties are pointless in low and null because people dont need a reason to hunt someone. Bounties could be a thing in high sec if they allowed for aggro acquisition, but ccp long ago decided that having a bounty would not give anybody a right to to shoot you. Thus, bounties are meaningless in the only place where bounties could be a thing.



Thats exactly the problem.

Bounty could be a big deal, but atm it is not worth...


As soon as you make them worthwhile to hunt for, people will shoot themselves with their alts.
Hello Meow Kitty
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2016-11-15 20:18:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Hello Meow Kitty
Meow, nobody puts bounties on me, meow.

Meow, maybe they should just have any player with negative security status have a bounty and scales with the severity of his/her rating. meow.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#19 - 2016-11-15 22:45:55 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


As soon as you make them worthwhile to hunt for, people will shoot themselves with their alts.



This is why we can't have meaningful bounties.

To make bounties more worthwhile you need to get rid of insurance or make death permanent.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#20 - 2016-11-16 02:33:22 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
[quote=Gangolf Ovaert]
As soon as you make them worthwhile to hunt for, people will shoot themselves with their alts.


People can't shoot themselves with their alts if they have no access to a bounty contract. That's the major problem with bounties as a public system.

I think the basic idea here is that they can't shoot themselves with their alts because the bounty issuer has control over who can access the contract.

Use a killright to crate a bounty contract. You can make that contract avaliable to whoever you want, with whatever parameters. Thus, you don't have to place a public bounty. You could contract it to a reputable individual or bounty hunting group and have a provision baked in that it only gets paid if a vessel worth X is paid.

I'd even go so far as to disable "public" as an option for this kind of contract, since there's already a public bounty system that sort of works a little.

More something that sits on top of the existing system than replaces it.
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