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Wishful thinking and broken dreams

Author
Bentley Goodfriend
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-10-25 18:31:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Bentley Goodfriend
Ok, so there is a lot of citadels scattered everywhere. Some serve a purpose and some are just a massive waste of resources at the end of the day, but thank you and God bless. Now as of this writing, is there any citadels (owners) who are actually making an ongoing effort to establish a viable trade and market center? Or a successful niche trade center? I know there was lots of dreams, and probably still is, but are there any owners out there who are currently, or in the works to, putting in the effort and resources to make a market center happen? Someone with credibility, a plan, the connections and the ability to follow through? Or is it just a daunting task? Any region, low or high sec? Null follow largely different mechanics so not part of my question.

Any feedback appreciated.

-Bentley

edit; yes I listen to rumors and read reddit too.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#2 - 2016-10-25 20:00:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
Bentley Goodfriend wrote:
Some serve a purpose and some are just a massive waste of resources at the end of the day


Some would say that the latter is the former too ;-).

I don't really keep up with anything outside of Jita or reddit, but there was a citadel called Oasis in a WH system, however that's gone now. The New Eden Trading Company. Keepstars in Caldari low sec (Aunenen and Maila, I think a third is going up somewhere else) have been used for a fair few supercap sales.
u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
#3 - 2016-10-25 22:23:40 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Bentley Goodfriend wrote:
Some serve a purpose and some are just a massive waste of resources at the end of the day


Some would say that the latter is the former too ;-).

I don't really keep up with anything outside of Jita or reddit, but there was a citadel called Oasis in a WH system, however that's gone now. The New Eden Trading Company. Keepstars in Caldari low sec (Aunenen and Maila, I think a third is going up somewhere else) have been used for a fair few supercap sales.


The Oasis didn't last long? I remember they advertised it for months even before the launch of the Citadel expansion. It was supposed to be funded, guarded...well I guess dreams don't always come true.

As of the OP's statement - they may be waste of resources to the owner, but not to me, offshoring just saves me a lot of ISK. In fact the owners save the same amount of ISK too, so they are just 15-ish Billion back.

Eventually these new trade mini hubs are either going to be destroyed or grow into larger ones. Survival of the fittest. Blink

It just takes time...
Bentley Goodfriend
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-10-25 22:29:24 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Bentley Goodfriend wrote:
Some serve a purpose and some are just a massive waste of resources at the end of the day


Some would say that the latter is the former too ;-).



Indeed, hence the "thank you and God bless" :)
Bentley Goodfriend
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-10-25 22:34:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Bentley Goodfriend
u3pog wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Bentley Goodfriend wrote:
Some serve a purpose and some are just a massive waste of resources at the end of the day


Some would say that the latter is the former too ;-).

I don't really keep up with anything outside of Jita or reddit, but there was a citadel called Oasis in a WH system, however that's gone now. The New Eden Trading Company. Keepstars in Caldari low sec (Aunenen and Maila, I think a third is going up somewhere else) have been used for a fair few supercap sales.


The Oasis didn't last long? I remember they advertised it for months even before the launch of the Citadel expansion. It was supposed to be funded, guarded...well I guess dreams don't always come true.

As of the OP's statement - they may be waste of resources to the owner, but not to me, offshoring just saves me a lot of ISK. In fact the owners save the same amount of ISK too, so they are just 15-ish Billion back.

Eventually these new trade mini hubs are either going to be destroyed or grow into larger ones. Survival of the fittest. Blink

It just takes time...


Oasis...hmmm, wrong guy, challenging environment and setup, not sexy.
As for the tax havens, sure they serve a purpose. Which current "mini" tradehubs are you referring to?
Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#6 - 2016-10-26 01:51:38 UTC
Bentley Goodfriend wrote:
As for the tax havens, sure they serve a purpose.


Two purposes; you also can read Local sat in one without reading Jita Local. :-)
Bentley Goodfriend
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-10-26 05:51:31 UTC
Areen Sassel wrote:
Bentley Goodfriend wrote:
As for the tax havens, sure they serve a purpose.


Two purposes; you also can read Local sat in one without reading Jita Local. :-)


Ahhhhh yes, very true :)
Johans Chara
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-10-28 19:50:04 UTC
u3pog wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Bentley Goodfriend wrote:
Some serve a purpose and some are just a massive waste of resources at the end of the day


Some would say that the latter is the former too ;-).

I don't really keep up with anything outside of Jita or reddit, but there was a citadel called Oasis in a WH system, however that's gone now. The New Eden Trading Company. Keepstars in Caldari low sec (Aunenen and Maila, I think a third is going up somewhere else) have been used for a fair few supercap sales.


The Oasis didn't last long? I remember they advertised it for months even before the launch of the Citadel expansion. It was supposed to be funded, guarded...well I guess dreams don't always come true.

As of the OP's statement - they may be waste of resources to the owner, but not to me, offshoring just saves me a lot of ISK. In fact the owners save the same amount of ISK too, so they are just 15-ish Billion back.

Eventually these new trade mini hubs are either going to be destroyed or grow into larger ones. Survival of the fittest. Blink

It just takes time...



"Oasis" didn't last long. At all. In fact, "they" was only one person. His name's Alex. Seemed nice. I even liked him.
So when he asked for help, I didn't hesitate to offer the help of my alliance and friends.

You know what the problem was? It was him. He didn't care about the fate of Oasis at all. Not only was he negligent of Oasis, he even told me that he had succeeded his goal of having a citadel and that the 30bil he had loaned from various people weren't his loss anyways.

The root of the problem is that he had no viable defense plan. His plan was to hire locals who would be willing to go up against a better equipped, much larger invading fleet.

He had no experience in wormholes, and he didn't even have an alt at all. When he got one, it was blown up and I had to search for 2 days to find an entrance.

When I told him that we wold help him if he came up with a good defense plan, he said he was good sticking with his old plan.

The point is, I really love the idea of Oasis. It just cannot be what Alex envisioned - a free port without any influences. You still need corp to help you defend. Or at least create your own corp to defend your very own citadel that you should damn well love and cherish. I want another Oasis. Just not another Alex
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#9 - 2016-10-30 10:19:40 UTC
There are some projects happening outside of The Forge, Domain and Sinq. I personally have over 100b worth of stuff (not counting capitals and PLEX) seeded outside of those major regions. That's not much at all in EVE scale, but have enough people do this and something could happen.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#10 - 2016-11-10 23:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
Most of the hub action I've encountered is regional import/export centers on fringe hisec or losec. To make it work you can't just plop down a station. You have to be willing to invest effort in your stock and engaging your customers.

It's not difficult to set this up. Get to know the local groups, try talking to their leadership and ask them what sort of stuff they buy. (hint: faction ships, t2 ships, and structure fuel mats can make you everybody's best friends real quick if you can keep the stuff local groups actually use in stock)

It is however important to talk with the locals BEFORE you drop your hub. If you just show up and drop a structure without communicating your intentions people probably just want to shoot it for the KM becuase it looks like an obstacle or competition for the space.

Then you set up your trade hub in a "neutral" area at a nexus of as many local groups as you can find, and do the work of bargain shopping to fill their needs. Your over/under is a bit more managable becuase despite paying taxes on your buy orders in major hubs, you can sell order out at your station at a decent profit that is still attractively priced for locals. Most people don't mind paying an extra 2% to 5% on items if it saves them having to make 30+ jumps to go pick it up. Owning the station means you can absorb what would commonly be tax adjustments as income.

Keep talking to your customers, try and work out nominal buy order ratios. Most people will happily buy order slightly higher at your station rather than a main hub if you can reasonably guarantee them it'll get filled.

Put a low (but not zero) trade tax on the station and go out of your way to buy up anything on sell orders there you can flip when you go to major hubs for a pickup.

Try your best to communicate to all local groups that your intent is as a neutral entity, you're here to serve them, and you have no intent to interfere in their conflicts. Most EVE players are quite tolerant and even appreciative of local war profiteers if they can get the reships and ammo they need at a good price so they can spend more time shooting each other.

Congratulations, you're operating a trade hub with a greater than 50% chance of success! The more work you put in to it the more it starts to sustain itself. Once people get used to using your station, they start being more likely to buy/sell from each other there as well. The more people grow to depend on your station, the more they're likely to help you defend it if an outside actor decides to blow it up.

Keep in mind you aren't going to replace Jita or Rens or Amarr or whatever, but with the proper attention paid there are lots of stationless fringe losec and null systems with customer bases that happily support these types of endeavors if they can cut down on their personal logistics and hauling as it provides some local content hotspots, reduced hauling times, and in a lot of cases improved logistics chains.

There are just as many places where nobody wants you around and will tell you to **** off. Don't try to force your way in to a market that doesn't want you.

This is not magic, and it won't work everywhere, but you'd be suprised how far a littel dimplomacy gets you in EVE if you can offer people a win/win proposition.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#11 - 2016-11-11 05:35:37 UTC
Very nicely said Pope, but at the current rate I think it is possible to replace Rens :p

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#12 - 2016-11-14 04:06:31 UTC
Toobo wrote:
I personally have over 100b worth of stuff (not counting capitals and PLEX)...That's not much at all in EVE scale...

Shocked

Now I want to cry...
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#13 - 2016-11-14 09:31:15 UTC
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
Toobo wrote:
I personally have over 100b worth of stuff (not counting capitals and PLEX)...That's not much at all in EVE scale...

Shocked

Now I want to cry...


I'm solidly space middle class - worth a bit under a quarter trillion ISK.

Space rich is people with a trillion in assets or more.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#14 - 2016-11-14 09:51:36 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
Toobo wrote:
I personally have over 100b worth of stuff (not counting capitals and PLEX)...That's not much at all in EVE scale...

Shocked

Now I want to cry...


I'm solidly space middle class - worth a bit under a quarter trillion ISK.

Space rich is people with a trillion in assets or more.

Then I would be on New Eden welfare program. Shocked
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#15 - 2016-11-14 13:17:38 UTC
According to CCP data and our estimates, 50% of EVE population have 100M or below ISK on their wallets. Gini index can be estimated at ~ 65. This means there is indeed a middle class, but Sabriz doesnt really fit into it.