These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Mission loot stealing issue and how to fix it

Author
Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
#41 - 2016-11-12 12:05:30 UTC
So many people that want on my ignore list... so little space.

Maybe it would be a good idea to clean up this forum of PvP wannabe-whiners that downvote everything that could even remotely be considered anti-pvp even if it is pro-pvp but that would mean to actually read and think before starting the default whine. Discussing issues helps, crying and whining doesn't. See USA right now.
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2016-11-12 12:25:55 UTC
Raw Matters wrote:
So many people that want on my ignore list... so little space.

Maybe it would be a good idea to clean up this forum of PvP wannabe-whiners that downvote everything that could even remotely be considered anti-pvp even if it is pro-pvp but that would mean to actually read and think before starting the default whine. Discussing issues helps, crying and whining doesn't. See USA right now.

As much as I see, people not just downvoting things about making the game slightly more friendly to those who don't want to do PVP, but they generally downvoting anything and everything that would change their current way of playing the game.

By the way PVP in EVE is like sex (with an awful amount of rapists...)

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.

Dark Lord Trump
0.0 Massive Dynamic
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2016-11-12 12:27:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Dark Lord Trump
Raw Matters wrote:
So many people that want on my ignore list... so little space.

Ah, so when confronted with reasonable solutions directly contradicting your complaints, you stick your fingers in your ears and shout "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" as loudly as possible. That's one way to handle cognitive dissonance, I suppose.

Raw Matters wrote:
Maybe it would be a good idea to clean up this forum of PvP wannabe-whiners that downvote everything that could even remotely be considered anti-pvp even if it is pro-pvp but that would mean to actually read and think before starting the default whine.

You literally just suggested making the vast majority of ways to mess with mission runners a suicidal act. Including tackling anything inside a limited engagement or while at war. How on earth does this increase the number of ships exploding? I read, I thought, I provided suggestions to stop ninja looters. You chose to lash out with ad hominem attacks.

Raw Matters wrote:
Discussing issues helps, crying and whining doesn't. See USA right now.

Oh, the irony.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Dark Lord Trump
0.0 Massive Dynamic
Pandemic Horde
#44 - 2016-11-12 12:56:46 UTC
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Raw Matters wrote:
So many people that want on my ignore list... so little space.

Maybe it would be a good idea to clean up this forum of PvP wannabe-whiners that downvote everything that could even remotely be considered anti-pvp even if it is pro-pvp but that would mean to actually read and think before starting the default whine. Discussing issues helps, crying and whining doesn't. See USA right now.

As much as I see, people not just downvoting things about making the game slightly more friendly to those who don't want to do PVP, but they generally downvoting anything and everything that would change their current way of playing the game.

By the way PVP in EVE is like sex (with an awful amount of rapists...)

All I see are people "downvoting" a request for a magic bubble of safety. His ideas basically make it impossible for anyone to mess with his mission short of suicide ganking him, which he would naturally complain about next. I see no reason to remove mission invasions beyond "the mean people took muh damsel" and that's no reason at all. Why should he be safe from player intervention in his mission pocket?

Frankly you should be ashamed of yourself for implying a comparison between player vs player combat and ****. You consent to the potential destruction of your space pixels when you undock. If you have a problem with that, the test server is always online. You can PvE there unmolested to your heart's content.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2016-11-12 13:54:52 UTC
I'm -8, so I'm perma-suspect in highsec.

Your suggestion makes it a criminal act for anyone to tackle me, which makes it even easier for me to zip through highsec on the rare occasions I have to.

I support this product and/or service.
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#46 - 2016-11-12 14:35:57 UTC
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Raw Matters wrote:
So many people that want on my ignore list... so little space.

Maybe it would be a good idea to clean up this forum of PvP wannabe-whiners that downvote everything that could even remotely be considered anti-pvp even if it is pro-pvp but that would mean to actually read and think before starting the default whine. Discussing issues helps, crying and whining doesn't. See USA right now.

As much as I see, people not just downvoting things about making the game slightly more friendly to those who don't want to do PVP, but they generally downvoting anything and everything that would change their current way of playing the game.

By the way PVP in EVE is like sex (with an awful amount of rapists...)


Actually its more a case of this is an established and accepted mechanic....and career choice (looter/vulture is a career, same as say piracy) by even ccp. The old boards this was at one point in time running neck and neck with AFK cloak threads at times. CCP on record many times about this....falls under their HTFU guidance the long story made short.

I played in the old days. No can turnover, no crime watch, hell gankers had insurance. And there was something called agent quality so if like me and a heavy CN runner....you had to go to cesspits like Mostu was years ago (if changed I don't know...when quality removed I moved my ass away ASAP to quieter spaces). It had the one of the few top paying CN level 4 agents at the time. Want to talk about bad vulturing....motsu was text book worst case really.

Rule I applied then, same one I apply now. As mentioned....

I don't put a mission ship in jeopardy for crap loot in cans. MTU and such adds a new twist...same rule applies. even if popping these made them shootable...you wouldn't be advised to do it imo. Unless you can take the crap storm that follows. See its not the well they fit to kill you in the mission. They bait, you bite and they go we have a live one. This may not end in the deadspace that night. It could drag on.

Now I have known 0.0 types on empire alts run 1 man wars (official or hit and run stuff off the books as it were). They had the skills (and alt army to be honest) to do this. Have that, by all means feeling froggy, leap.

Me, I like avoidance. Off and on empire alts pay for combat's chars bills when out of empire. I don't need heat in empire. I make my isk, try to be a ghost in the machine and just do my thing. Works well...more than enough righteous rage bears rile up the crews looking for just that very thing.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#47 - 2016-11-12 14:54:00 UTC
Raw Matters wrote:
So many people that want on my ignore list... so little space.

Maybe it would be a good idea to clean up this forum of PvP wannabe-whiners that downvote everything that could even remotely be considered anti-pvp even if it is pro-pvp but that would mean to actually read and think before starting the default whine. Discussing issues helps, crying and whining doesn't. See USA right now.

This brings us right around to the initial problem with your discussion points though.

You have yet to establish that there is any issue here.

Taking from wrecks has a consequence, please tell us in a concise manner why this is not enough?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#48 - 2016-11-12 15:12:19 UTC
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Raw Matters wrote:
So many people that want on my ignore list... so little space.

Maybe it would be a good idea to clean up this forum of PvP wannabe-whiners that downvote everything that could even remotely be considered anti-pvp even if it is pro-pvp but that would mean to actually read and think before starting the default whine. Discussing issues helps, crying and whining doesn't. See USA right now.

As much as I see, people not just downvoting things about making the game slightly more friendly to those who don't want to do PVP, but they generally downvoting anything and everything that would change their current way of playing the game.

By the way PVP in EVE is like sex (with an awful amount of rapists...)



You think its better to whine on the forums until the whole game is changed to YOUR current way of playing?

Or maybe you are just playing the wrong game.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2016-11-12 16:24:26 UTC
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

Frankly you should be ashamed of yourself for implying a comparison between player vs player combat and ****. You consent to the potential destruction of your space pixels when you undock. If you have a problem with that, the test server is always online. You can PvE there unmolested to your heart's content.

Sorry for being insensitive and pointing at the elephant in the room, but if PVP isn't a choice you make but a choice others make for you - as I keep hearing it - then my comparison is quite accurate. And staying home isn't a solution. My problem with the game isn't the PVP aspect, or losing my stuff, that's part of the game.
My main issue is that unlike other games, EVE doesn't encourage players to be heroes, but to exploit the literal worst traits a human possibly can have, without any consequence at all. And this goes from mission loot stealing and tricking inexperienced players to legal duels that they have no chance to win to becoming the real life best friend of an enemy CEO just to get your alt in the second-in-command position in that corp to destroy it from inside.

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.

Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2016-11-12 16:32:38 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:

You think its better to whine on the forums until the whole game is changed to YOUR current way of playing?

My way to play quite flexible: I do what I want, when I want, be it mining, missions, exploring, events, PI, anything.
it's quite easy for me to adapt to changes. People with 5+ and so years of game time on the other hand usually have a style that they managed to perfect, changing that isn't easy.

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#51 - 2016-11-12 16:38:33 UTC
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

Frankly you should be ashamed of yourself for implying a comparison between player vs player combat and ****. You consent to the potential destruction of your space pixels when you undock. If you have a problem with that, the test server is always online. You can PvE there unmolested to your heart's content.

Sorry for being insensitive and pointing at the elephant in the room, but if PVP isn't a choice you make but a choice others make for you - as I keep hearing it - then my comparison is quite accurate. And staying home isn't a solution. My problem with the game isn't the PVP aspect, or losing my stuff, that's part of the game.
My main issue is that unlike other games, EVE doesn't encourage players to be heroes, but to exploit the literal worst traits a human possibly can have, without any consequence at all. And this goes from mission loot stealing and tricking inexperienced players to legal duels that they have no chance to win to becoming the real life best friend of an enemy CEO just to get your alt in the second-in-command position in that corp to destroy it from inside.


The game doesn't encourage you to be a hero nor a villain. You make the choice yourself, and to say there are no consequences just shows how much of a liar you are.

This isn't a warm cuddley carebear game. It's mad max in space. Kill or be killed, be a victim or choose not to be a victim. That's what makes the game so great. But not for everyone.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#52 - 2016-11-12 16:43:22 UTC
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:

You think its better to whine on the forums until the whole game is changed to YOUR current way of playing?

My way to play quite flexible: I do what I want, when I want, be it mining, missions, exploring, events, PI, anything.
it's quite easy for me to adapt to changes. People with 5+ and so years of game time on the other hand usually have a style that they managed to perfect, changing that isn't easy.


So what? You think all the people disliking this idea are mission thieves and do nothing else?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy
Dead Terrorists
#53 - 2016-11-12 16:51:05 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:

You think its better to whine on the forums until the whole game is changed to YOUR current way of playing?

My way to play quite flexible: I do what I want, when I want, be it mining, missions, exploring, events, PI, anything.
it's quite easy for me to adapt to changes. People with 5+ and so years of game time on the other hand usually have a style that they managed to perfect, changing that isn't easy.


So what? You think all the people disliking this idea are mission thieves and do nothing else?

I dislike the idea, and I'm not a mission looter (I tried it in the past, not my cup of tea). I was invaded in missions myself a few times in the past, so what? Once I arty insta-popped the frigate looter, didn't stay for his PVP Raven to land when he came back.

Other times I blued the wrecks or ignored the looter. Big deal. I the grand scheme of things, the loss of time/ISK is minimal.

If the OP is repetetively invaded, I suggest he get out of the (likely) cancerous mission hub he's running L4 and find a quieter place. This a MMO sandbox, learn to live with other player interracting with you, even if it is not always to your liking.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#54 - 2016-11-12 18:45:06 UTC
Agents doesnt care how you aquire the item from mission, so I have a solution, steal it from someone else If someone stole from you. Pirate
Dark Lord Trump
0.0 Massive Dynamic
Pandemic Horde
#55 - 2016-11-12 19:54:09 UTC
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

Frankly you should be ashamed of yourself for implying a comparison between player vs player combat and ****. You consent to the potential destruction of your space pixels when you undock. If you have a problem with that, the test server is always online. You can PvE there unmolested to your heart's content.

Sorry for being insensitive and pointing at the elephant in the room, but if PVP isn't a choice you make but a choice others make for you - as I keep hearing it - then my comparison is quite accurate. And staying home isn't a solution. My problem with the game isn't the PVP aspect, or losing my stuff, that's part of the game.
My main issue is that unlike other games, EVE doesn't encourage players to be heroes, but to exploit the literal worst traits a human possibly can have, without any consequence at all. And this goes from mission loot stealing and tricking inexperienced players to legal duels that they have no chance to win to becoming the real life best friend of an enemy CEO just to get your alt in the second-in-command position in that corp to destroy it from inside.

Staying home is absolutely an option, if you can't stomach the idea that you could encounter nonconsensual PvP then maybe EvE is not for you. In any other game, entering a PvP server/zone is considered consent to PvP, why should EvE by any different?

EvE doesn't encourage you to do anything. It just has less restrictions than real life, and no one really gets harmed. Do with that knowledge what you will.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#56 - 2016-11-12 21:37:50 UTC
Dior Ambraelle wrote:
Sorry for being insensitive and pointing at the elephant in the room, but if PVP isn't a choice you make but a choice others make for you - as I keep hearing it - then my comparison is quite accurate.
Did you choose to log in to the client?

That's your choice to PvP right there.

As for the OP, as a mission bear I thumb my nose at you and call thee carebear.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Deckel
Island Paradise
#57 - 2016-11-12 22:28:20 UTC
Well my solution to Mission loot thieves would be to implement Trap Items which will primarily temporarily hinder and disable a ships ability to warp:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6696969#post6696969

Good for implementing additional content and keeping thieves from being able to get away, as the PVE mission ship can then engage without the worry of the PVP ninja being able to one sidedly warp away.
Dark Lord Trump
0.0 Massive Dynamic
Pandemic Horde
#58 - 2016-11-12 22:42:25 UTC
Deckel wrote:
Well my solution to Mission loot thieves would be to implement Trap Items which will primarily temporarily hinder and disable a ships ability to warp:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6696969#post6696969

Good for implementing additional content and keeping thieves from being able to get away, as the PVE mission ship can then engage without the worry of the PVP ninja being able to one sidedly warp away.

You are aware that a) the ninja is looting wrecks, which you can't put anything into and b) you shooting the ninja is exactly what he wants?

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Deckel
Island Paradise
#59 - 2016-11-13 00:41:40 UTC
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
Deckel wrote:
Well my solution to Mission loot thieves would be to implement Trap Items which will primarily temporarily hinder and disable a ships ability to warp:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6696969#post6696969

Good for implementing additional content and keeping thieves from being able to get away, as the PVE mission ship can then engage without the worry of the PVP ninja being able to one sidedly warp away.

You are aware that a) the ninja is looting wrecks, which you can't put anything into and b) you shooting the ninja is exactly what he wants?


Of course they want you to attack them, but now if you catch them in a trap they will have a handicap so it becomes an extra incentive for engagement, and you get the satisfaction of hassling them like they are hassling you.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#60 - 2016-11-13 00:50:07 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
One thing you're seeming to forget, Donnie, is that once someone loots a can, anyone can shoot them. Provided the carebear isn't stupid enough to shoot, his friends in their PvP ships can warp in and engage the suspect while he stays nice, safe, and limited engagement timer free. Yes, this works, and in most major mission hubs, there's usually people chasing suspects around, at least when I was last there.

I am not forgetting anything, perhaps you need to train dictionary to a higher level than you currently have it. To protect someone is to prevent any harm from coming to them, as in not being shot at and having their ships damaged or destroyed. If you were protecting someone then you would destroy the gankers or looters as soon as they appeared in the pocket. Problem is if you try this in high sec you end up with the distinct pleasure of watching from your pod as the gankers destroy your friend anyway all courtesy of Concord.

You and the rest of the PvP crowd can try and spin this which ever way you want, but in high sec there simply is no such thing as "protecting" your friends. You can retaliate once they have been attacked, and within a limited amount of time you can extract your revenge on them, but you cannot protect them.