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DONT NERF MY DRAKE PLEASE I BEG OF YOU
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Famble
Three's a Crowd
#21 - 2012-01-18 16:40:12 UTC
I had no idea Drake tears were this delicious.

If anyone ever looks at you and says,_ "Hold my beer, watch this,"_  you're probably going to want to pay attention.
DeLaBu
CAF Industries
#22 - 2012-01-18 16:41:16 UTC
First off, yes, I am a Drake pilot too.

But I think I'm fine with the nerf. It will change the approach to flying it somewhat, but won't make it useless. HAMs may even be an option again.

Sadly, missiles are not good for lag, giving CCP double the reason to reduce the use of this ship in big fights. At least with the current proposal, it could still be good in small fights.

Forcing pilots to use the range advantage will also make it more rewarding for skilled players.

I will miss the "good ol' days" of it being OP, but guess we all get our turn at the nerf bat.
Progray
The Initiative.
#23 - 2012-01-18 16:58:50 UTC
mkint wrote:
"I want to keep my easy mode ship that requires no thought nor talent to fly!"

Drake sucks. People fly it because it's made for stupid people. Anyone defending it is revealing their intelligence.


This above, is some real ignorant bullshit, if you have to proove to yourself that you are not stupid and intelligent by not flying a drake it doesnt mean everyone else is that insecure as you are.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#24 - 2012-01-18 17:02:51 UTC
Remove drakes abillity to passive tank by reducing its base shield recharge by 75%, removing a midslot or 2, and reduce its drone bay by 60% to bring it "in line" with the caracal and the raven. Cool
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#25 - 2012-01-18 17:07:16 UTC
We Gallente pilots feel for our soon to be Caldari (Drake flying) brethern in our little club of nerfed ships. :-)

Welcome to the club and be prepared to think creatively about how to fit and fly.

Nothing clever at this time.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#26 - 2012-01-18 17:13:55 UTC
Nick Bison wrote:
We Gallente pilots feel for our soon to be Caldari (Drake flying) brethern in our little club of nerfed ships. :-)

Welcome to the club and be prepared to think creatively about how to fit and fly.

Oh heavens no, I cross trained to winmatar and amarr ages ago. Only caldari ships I still fly are tengu and falcon. I just think its amusing that CCP's idea of balance is bringing a ship into line with the caracal or raven.
Sunny Rin
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-01-18 17:19:54 UTC
Oh noes pls dont nerf battlebears!
OmniBeton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-01-18 17:25:52 UTC  |  Edited by: OmniBeton
LOL.
Drake was only Caldari ship I flown for PVP.
And only in gangs.
And looks like those days will be gone.

Well, good I cross trained winmatar.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-01-18 17:58:38 UTC
Aldeskwatso wrote:
One must wonder. Does the potential overpoweredness of a Drake really unbalance the scales that much to justify a nerf on it?

Some ships tend to be more desirable then others during certain applications. Could be of reasons of tank, firepower, adaptability or a combination of the lot. Fact is that there are ships and fits that can beat any Drake out there. A Drake is a powerfull ship, easy to get into and with relatively low skills it can be a major workhorse to any pilot. But so are other ships. A Myrm, Ferox, Cane or Harb can all be considered powerfull used in the right application and all can overpower a Drake being it's a matter of SP and skills or how it's fitted conventional or not.

I have a feeling that a lot of players find it hard to deal with Drakes and blame it's strength. While I believe it's more a matter of Drakes just being popular among pilots that reveals a Drakes strength more than it does others. So it just looks like it's way more overpowered and thus justifies a nerf on it. Infact it's just powerful but not something so powerful that it actually creates an unbalance. If there is any reason for any tipping of the scales it's because of its popularity due to its easiness and power. But as I said before so are other battlecruisers. So I don't agree with a nerf on it. But I also don't think a nerf on it would be so terrible as some might plea. I think putting a nerf on it now would just be for the wrong reasons because it would get nerfed because it's a good ship and pilots recognize it as such. You could say then that all other popular ships should just get nerfed as well to give other ships a better chance. Then they get popular and considered to powerful and it's their turn. It would never end.

For the record tho, I don't fly a Drake^^


The Drake is too good at too many things. Its a Swiss Army knife with a chainsaw, flamethrower, machinegun, fork, spoon, hemi v8, etc etc etc. Ergo its too good it has become and outlier, streamlining this game requires the outliers be brought back into line. Some get nerfed [Drake] [Cane?], some get buffed, [Prophecy?], [Omen?], et al.

I don't fly one but I've seen corpies use them to great effect in too many situations to ignore the fact that they are too good and have been for a long time.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-01-18 18:18:55 UTC
my only problem with the drake came with PVP. Able to go super fast, have a decent tank, and spit out decent damage over long distances. No other ship can do all that at the same time, not even Gallente (which are supposed to). It's like having your cake and eating it too.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-01-18 18:26:11 UTC
Nerfs based on PvP butthurt that affect PvE always end poorly.

The Drake is a bread and butter boat for new players to survive
and get a foot-hold on some isk. Making the game harder and
take longer for a new player to get in to a comfortable spot
isk wise will lower the new player retention rate imo.

This whole nerf affects ALL the uses of the ship just because of
one current popular PvP use.

Nerfing is a good sign of lazy game management.
Famble
Three's a Crowd
#32 - 2012-01-18 18:36:31 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Nerfs based on PvP butthurt that affect PvE always end poorly.

The Drake is a bread and butter boat for new players to survive
and get a foot-hold on some isk. Making the game harder and
take longer for a new player to get in to a comfortable spot
isk wise will lower the new player retention rate imo.

This whole nerf affects ALL the uses of the ship just because of
one current popular PvP use.

Nerfing is a good sign of lazy game management.


I'm not convinced. From a PVE perspective (which is all I do and care about) the Drake takes a fraction of the time to train for when compared to the other battlecruisers and has a tank that rivals my missioning battleships. It's kind of insane near as I can tell.

Frankly it doesn't affect me one way or the other but in the interest of fairness it's totally out of whack what this ship can do considering the meager time investment necessary. Some posts earlier I took a brand new pilot (no training), two respected Battleclinic PVE fits, one for a T2 fitted Hurricane and one for a T2 fitted Drake. The T2 fitted Drake could be piloted from nothing in some fifty days. The Hurricane took over a month longer to train for. That's crazy!

If anyone ever looks at you and says,_ "Hold my beer, watch this,"_  you're probably going to want to pay attention.
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-01-18 18:51:08 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:
my only problem with the drake came with PVP. Able to go super fast, have a decent tank, and spit out decent damage over long distances. No other ship can do all that at the same time, not even Gallente (which are supposed to). It's like having your cake and eating it too.

Give me a break.

The Tengu does it all waaaay better than the Drake, but that's not
the issue here is it? It's not truely about what's better, or the Drake
being over-powered, it's about how often people see it in PvP.

If the Tengu and the Drake cost the same to fit, the Tengu would be
the ship getting the nerf, because none would use the Drake.

So, we will ruin a ship that has a good price/skill cost for newer players
just to help heal the PvP butthurt some people have. Meanwhile the
Tengu continues to coast through Carebear level 4's better than any other
ship, even the over-powered Drake. Roll

Yeah, none is flying the Nighthawk because the Drake is "too good at everything"
LOL

But really, the Nighthawk excuse is just that, an excuse. If they wanted more people
tp fly one, they would make it more attractive to ALL pilots rather than just nerfing
Drake pilots into another ship. Btw, this will only put more people in Tengus,
not Nighthawks because umm, well, the Tengu is better than it, AND the OP Drake.

The Drake is used for uses other than PvP more than it is used for PvP, nerfing it wil
hurt the newer PvE players while the PvP whiners find something else to maon
about.

Anyone claiming that it needs to be nerfed for any other reason than PvP is just
full of it and using excuses to make PvP easier for their chosen ship.
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-01-18 19:01:03 UTC
Didn't read the whole thread so this may have already been said but, the proposed changes do NOT nerf the drake.

ROF bonus means more damage using all types of missiles which means the drake will deal more dps for PVP and PVE. What's one of minmatar's main strengths? Selectable damage type, coming to a drake near you.

The velocity bonus means more range, it already hits out to 70 km, what's that gonna be after the velocity bonus? You figure it out, pretty damn far no doubt.

"But my EHP is being nerfed". So what. Fit it appropriately as a long range dps ship and you won't need that EHP. Put some nano's/overdrives whatever on it and spew 100 percent em/thermal/kinetic/explosive damage on your target from at range.

For PVE, will it be able to passive shield tank lvl 4's, maybe not but you shouldn't be doing that in a drake anyways, and now, if you decide you need to use a drake for lvl 4's you'll finish them quicker due to selectable damage type, yay.

The only nerf this is bringing would be to brawler fit HAM drakes. However, I'm not even sure that counts. Yes you'll have less EHP but you'll be able to shoot the proper damage type therefore dealing more actual DPS in many situations. More gank less tank is a good thing IMO.

So all of us drake pilots should be for this change. If drake haters wanna call it a nerf, please let them. It'll be more fun when our drakes kill them still, despite being "nerfed".

/My thoughts while bored at work.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Riall
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-01-18 19:09:05 UTC
Don't nerf my Drake, my tanky missile Drake
I just don't think it'd understand.
And if you nerf my Drake, my tanky missile Drake,
It might blow up and foil this plan.

[center] "Buy PLEX, don't be a space butt"[/center]

[center] Keepin' it... me.[/center]

Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-01-18 19:15:40 UTC
Rath Kelbore wrote:

The only nerf this is bringing would be to brawler fit HAM drakes. However, I'm not even sure that counts. Yes you'll have less EHP but you'll be able to shoot the proper damage type therefore dealing more actual DPS in many situations. More gank less tank is a good thing IMO.

You can already select the propper damage type, and it doesn't do more DPS. Removing te kinetic bonus wont
make the other damage types do more damage than they do now.

Rath Kelbore wrote:
So all of us drake pilots should be for this change. If drake haters wanna call it a nerf, please let them. It'll be more fun when our drakes kill them still, despite being "nerfed".

You're assuming that they will actually offset the nerfs as they have suggested. Bet you
it ends up more nerf and less compesation.
Texty
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-01-18 19:53:27 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:

You can already select the propper damage type, and it doesn't do more DPS. Removing te kinetic bonus wont
make the other damage types do more damage than they do now.


RoF bonus?
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#38 - 2012-01-18 20:01:22 UTC
CCP is starting down the slippery slope here. Nerf = Nerf = Nerf and so on

The Hurricane in mr potatoes guys analysis doesn't really argue anything other than training time. the dps of the Hurricane fit is considerably higher with a lower EHP when compared to the drake. what you could argue for is to bring the drake training times in par with the Hurricane if that is the basis of your argument.

Now they could make the drake a little less effective at close range but then that would present a problem to Heavy Assault fits.

players use different ships and fits for different reasons. i see Hurricanes more often then Drakes but no one makes a fuss about them.

If CCP nerfs the Drake it will be the beginning of an endless cycle of NERFS.
Vigrioth Stoneclaw
Daskak Verskaffers
#39 - 2012-01-18 20:01:26 UTC
mkint wrote:
"I want to keep my easy mode ship that requires no thought nor talent to fly!"

Drake sucks. People fly it because it's made for stupid people. Anyone defending it is revealing their intelligence.


Congratulations, you win the Shallow End of the Eve Pool Award for this thread! Good job, way to be simple minded! :)

Let me break this down as best as I can for the thread at large...

COMMUNITY: Fix Incursions, FW, Assault frigates and Botting!

CCP: Ok, I see, I see. Oh, I know, let's nerf the Drake!

SHALLOW THINKERS: Nerf the Drake? Brilliant! Hurray CCP!

DEEP THINKERS: Nerf the...wait, wha?

CCP: Aren't you happy now?

DEEP THINKERS: How does that solve the real problems plaguing this game?

CCP: Lookee here! *holds up wand with spinning wheels and bright lights* This is the visual representation of the Drake nerf! Isn't it awesome?

SHALLOW THINKERS: *mesmerized* Wow, it's better than I ever imagined...

DEEP THINKERS: Wait, no! How can this be a solution? We have bigger issues to worry about here than one ship!

SHALLOW THINKERS: Shut-up! Your dumb because you are opposing the nerf! You must be ridiculed and silenced!

DEEP THINKERS: It's spelled 'you're' with an apostrophe and an E at the end! We still want to know how this addresses problems that truly need to be fixed.

SHALLOW THINKERS: Shut-up noob! L2p!

DEEP THINKERS: Surely you aren't buying this...

SHALLOW THINKERS: DEATH TO DRAKES!

DEEP THINKERS: *fingers pinching the bridge of their noses* You have got to be kidding me, you really don't get it do you?

SHALLOW THINKERS: Umad bro? Lulz!

CCP: We knew you guys would approve! =)


I think that just about sums it up.
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-01-18 20:22:58 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Rath Kelbore wrote:

The only nerf this is bringing would be to brawler fit HAM drakes. However, I'm not even sure that counts. Yes you'll have less EHP but you'll be able to shoot the proper damage type therefore dealing more actual DPS in many situations. More gank less tank is a good thing IMO.

You can already select the propper damage type, and it doesn't do more DPS. Removing te kinetic bonus wont
make the other damage types do more damage than they do now.

Rath Kelbore wrote:
So all of us drake pilots should be for this change. If drake haters wanna call it a nerf, please let them. It'll be more fun when our drakes kill them still, despite being "nerfed".

You're assuming that they will actually offset the nerfs as they have suggested. Bet you
it ends up more nerf and less compesation.


Removing the kinetic bonus won't make the other damage types do more damage than they do now, that is of course until you apply the ROF bonus. Roll

As far as what they actually implement who knows, I'm going off of what it says in the minutes. If that changes then obviously my view point may change.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.