Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I really liked the tiericide changes (last summer?) and I think there's a few additions that could be done.

1) Tech 1 modules are still relatively useless

Meta 1-4 modules have similar skill requirements, increased performance, and almost universally at least one of a set cost less than their tech 1 equivalent.

Removing compact modules and giving their fitting requirement to tech 1 modules would give purpose back to tech 1, while giving all performance enhancements still to higher meta items, of course at increased fitting (and sometimes isk) cost.

I would also recommend removing tech 1 modules from npc drops to give more opportunity for newers industrialists to build something off the relatively cheaper bpos of tech 1 modules. This should be pretty appealing for any upcoming alpha clone industrialists.

2) There variance in price gaps between tech 2, faction, and deadspace items is wildly variable

The reason for this is because there several different ways in which faction items receive a bonus over their tech 2 equivalents. Some of which are good, some are not.

The good, items that receive a performance buff, example faction warp scramblers/disruptors webbers, shield extenders, damage mods. These items generally don't have a deadspace progression, and I think for most of them that's fair; I could see how dead space webs and such would be very unbalancing.

The bad, items that only receive fittings or capacitor bonuses at faction level but receive a performance bonus at deadspace level. Example shield boosters, armor hardeners. Some general performance boosts and cost reductions in the LP store should make these viable again.

The ugly, items that just aren't used very often, example a gist x-type explosive hardener cots 2 mil, a caldari navy one costs 14 mil. I look to the success capital flex armor/shield hardeners for this one. Make all hardeners adaptive, but scriptable to single types. Its a little trickier for passive resistance modules, but I think a similar system where they all begin as adaptive, but when at a fitting service (docked, near a capital or mobile depot) you can select a damage type, or for armored layered plates. For shield shield recharges could also be merged into this item as they are not widely used either.

There are probably some other modules that don't really fall into these categories I missed but this should cover most items.

3) The meta names of weapons is still confusing

This one is pretty obvious, scoped, enduring for lasers or extra capacity (expanded?) for the rest, hybrids could be either or both, and possibly a new one for increased tracking (perhaps 'stabilized'), is really all we need.

All in all they aren't huge changes, but are still significant enough to improve the game.

Problem 1: Tech 1 is the baseline.
If these were dropped, then whatever became the new baseline would in a few weeks at the most become relatively useless. The key word being relatively meaning 'in relation to'. None of the tiericided are useless, as they work best to solve specific problems. Use the right tool for the job. To me there is no one-right-choice for every situation. That's good game design.

Problem 2: Tech one is manufactured while the Meta's are dropped or purchased with LP (usually with needing the Tech 1 version to turn in as well).
Removing the manufacturing components would upset the whole industry dynamic. Not a good idea.

Problem 3: Tech 1 is needed for Tech 2.
See elitatwo's response.

Prices are due to a) an open market, and b) rarity and location of dropped modules.

As for the naming system. It's extremely simple for the parts that have been tiericided. Once you get used to one set of nomenclature, the adjectives apply the same meaning to all modules.

--Informative Gadget

I agree, but the problem is tech 1 doesn't fit into that, it has no 'right tool' situation. Why not give it one? I believe the 'compact' role is where it belongs in that balance.



Sure, but that doesnt exclude them from also being useful as fittings too.



Yes, i mentioned i was only talking about the weapon naming convention but I guess people are missing that. I realise they are going to change that as well, I only brought it up to mention theres potential for a couple new adjective types they could use here.



I feel like you didnt read most of what I said but this tidbit was at least good news. Again, I like the compact/scoped/enduring naming system, I was talking about scout/compressed/arbalest whatever adjectives for weapons.

1. T1 will always be useless. Its cheap and easy to make. Meta has to be found via rng gods favoring you on loot tables. Price wise...take that up the runners and ratters. Market saturation or they just want to sell the stuff off on a jita run and leave.

T1 is for base item in t2 production for mods...accept this and move on.


2. Valid points in there a little. Save you e-stalking, this one of my rants for years. Usually in why are faction guns so expensive...and not so great threads.. LP and tag and other costs need to be adjusted, they are antiquated and terrible, imo, at this point.

Exploration has turned was used to be billion+ fits into chump change. Nice for the new stuff I buy. Feel sad for my legacy tengu fit which has parts from the good old days. If I sold them off the loss would be immense selling 2011 valued pith a at 2016 prices. Lemons into lemonade, day comes I get ganked....it won't be the say 1 bill fit (just mods, hull price not included) it was in 2011 anymore.


T2 has a set base price...take that up with the moon goo barons. Even with free mins (just using for example, free mins correction "its not free" zealots chill), free cores, and free install fees T2 will have a base price it cannot go under (as its now a loss to builder).

Unless rolling your own ferrogel....if you picked up 10 mil of this stuff you will sell at 10 mil plus some extra to make profit. And no one, with a brain in their head anyway, if they roll their own "free mins" t2 materials. Trit...sure. Nano-transistors....hell no.

Tech 1 has more "right tool" situations than most modules. They're just not immediately apperant from the viewpoint of the single player that buys and fits just his own ships.

It can be mass produced literally anywhere for cheap.
It is a required component of all t2s and many meta and faction modules.
The BPOs are quite easy to get.

If you've never done cost/benefit analysis when buying a doctrine or refit fleet t1s might seem useless, however, trying to acquire 400 of a meta module versus acquiring 400 of a t1 module for mass deployment can make a world of difference in logistics.

The t1 will achieve acceptable performance on most of your line fits, it is cheap, AND it is still pretty useful if you retire that doctrine since you can use it for crafting supplies.

Every meta module added to a fit makes that fit substantially more difficult to stock in most cases compared to a doctrine fit that is comprised of only t2/t1 gear.