EVE General Discussion

As was to be expected, the entire issue of Industry and especially Mining was utterly forgotten within the Summit
Minutes. After all, this is the least important aspect of the game and is worthless. Those ships and Modules and POS fuels just magically appear on the market by themselves, provided by the game server (some actually DO believe this or something).

What struck me in the shower this morning was CCP Dr.EyjoG's comment concerning caution about the ASSUMPTION that all is well with the skillpoint system.

The GROSSEST imbalance here in Industry, especially for the New Player Experience, is the requirement to fly the poppable paper bags known as Exhumers. They are the T2 Mining Barges. The Mackinaw has 2 strip miners and has bonuses for Ice. The Hulk has 3 strip miners and is best used for 'regular' mining.

Sorry to be so pedantic, but since all things Industrial are so trivial and unimportant to the game, I MUST assume that most know nothing of how any of this is organized. (Read: SNARK).

Now these 2 mining ships are made, of course, from T1 Hulls, the Retriever (2 strips) and the Covetor (3 strips).

The unbelivable thing is that the Covetor is the only T1 ship in-game that requires not only ONE skill at LEVEL 5, but TWO.

Yes, TWO Level 5 skills for the privilege of flying a paper bag that sucks in Ice and Rocks. That is ALL they do.

TWO LEVEL 5's. REALLY ? For T1 ??

The best part...wait for it.......after achieving that, one sticks in a single skill (Exhumers) for EIGHTEEN (18) HOURS......and one is sitting in the T2 Hulk.

Now, the 2 skills I'm referring to are HARD SLOGS, especially for the New Player. Astrogeology is Rank 3...and Mining Barges is Rank 4. Both must be at 5 to sit in a T1.

This utterly obsoletes the Covetor except for making Hulks and using them in risky situations, normally by experienced players.

Nobody even bothers with the Covetor, what with the T2 literally HOURS away.

How many of you would have stuck around if you had to train 2 higher rank skills to Level 5 just to get into an Osprey ??

Name me ANY other ship in-game that the T2 skill requirement beyond T1 is mearly HOURS away (again).

The other effect of this is that after the tremendous time it takes to get into the Mackinaw for Ice-ing, the new player is already capable and able to earn much better ISK/hour at other things, leaving the entire Ice industry to 3 Groups:
- Those mining for their own POS fuels
- A trickle of Noobs Ice-ing just for the novelty
- BOTS FLOODING THE MARKET WITH ICE

Seriously CCP, Rank 3 Astrogeology AND Rank 4 Mining Barge BOTH to 5 ??? for a T1 Hull ???

Again, I invite anyone to demonstrate another gross example such as this with any other ship class.

Two Level 5's for a T1 Barge is WAY more than harsh for the New Player, and no wonder they get turned off and onto other things. Those 2 skills should be at requirement of 4......then take those two skills to 5 for the Exhumer T2 class.

I know, I know, it's like this since 'day 1'. But, as we are in an era of examination in EVE, it's time to give this a re-think, especially as to it's effects on discouraging (and it DOES) from Industry (but then who cares (SNARK)).

I don't have any real solutions here, I'm just sayin' if this was the case with ABSOLUTELY ANY T1 COMBAT SHIP....we would NEVER EVER EVER hear the end of it.


Let loose the dogs of war (ducks and covers).

Thanks, but this was about the Skill disparity in T1 Industrial ships and combat ships and NOT the Drone Regions.

Industry is ****** up big time.
And i think that's because that expansion when we got few new mining ships.
It had to be all indy expansion with many changes and overall re-do of industry, but, CCP had better things to do and didnt have time to finish it and then they just put few new ships in the game (its well known concept of taking care of things in EVE).

Bringing up the past is useless. And that Apoc did NOT require ANY level 5's.

True, but it does make things more interesting. I myself shall have a bit lower Sec Status to grind back up here in a few weeks.

My concern is mainly the turned off Noobs and Casuals.

These should stay IMHO as is.

Anything defensively added to Industrial ships needs to come in an entirely NEW ship, and NOT be easy to get into (to prevent so much botting). Make IT the 'pain to train'.

Good point though.

But they don't need us AT ALL and never will. They are allowed, and seemingly encouraged and helped, in unleashing thier BOTS to do the 'service industries' grunt work, and add that on top of the Moons they SUCK DRY...'but we are not Industrialists and have nothing to do with it.'

Pah!
Pathetic.

So something like a new set of Tier 3 Barges/Industrials from ORE?

Have them be "Deep Space Extraction" ships or something along those lines. They could be to Exhumers what Deep Space Transports are to Industrials. Give them an extra slot of each type (maybe an extra two lows), buff their Cap/CPU/EHP/PG by a healthy amount (25% or so) and then make their prereqs Exhumers 5, Ore Industrial 5, Transports Ships 3 or something like that just to train the new skill which would allow you to pilot them (Even then, have that new skill be set up similar to Barges with the 1-3-5, in addition to being a Rank 6 skill).

After all, IIRC, new combat ships that have been introduced to the game far outnumber the amount of new Industry focused ships. Isn't it about time that Industry got a buff too?

The SP used for a hulk do not lead anywhere.

As a noob I looked at hulks, but noted running missions was a better choice because when i was done the skills transfered to more ships.
I also had a new ship at regular intervals to reward me and a bunch of ship choices. at each new ship tier.

Progressing towards battle cruiser gave access to lots of frigates and cruisers along the way and all diffrent.
Progresing towards a hulk gave me nothing but the 3 ore ships and then the t2's.

There not only should be fewer SP for a covetor but more variety, maybe an ore hauler/miner with only 1-2 strip miners but more cargo or something faster, or tankier. Not better but more specialized and diffrent ships. As a noob out in 0.0 a tanker one would have been nice besides the hulk....or when solo minning a few jumps out from a stationa larger hold but less minning would have been nice.

I know access to a tanker 2 strip miner ship would be nice for some belt mining in 0.0 or even low sec.

Yes. My Alliance leader and I have discusssed this a bit.

Except for the Noctis (not just for Industrialists) NO ship has been added since Orca/Rorqual, etc.


And yes, a bot-unfriendly HARD train for a kind of miniature High sec Rorqual sounds about right. (No Clone Bay).

And lessen those skills for the Covetor so noobs can have a descent ship without having to go all the way to Hulk IF industry turns out not to be their thing.

Right now they are TRAPPED into all BUT 18 HOURS of Hulk training left after the Covetor.

Really weird honestly