These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

After tutorials, some remaining PI questions

Author
Selene Dukat
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#1 - 2016-11-03 21:56:56 UTC
Hello all,

I've been reading a lot of planetary interaction guides, both on the web and on youtube. But after studying a lot, I still have some unanswered questions:

(1) Are there costs in ISK associated with each part of the set up on a planet? Does placing an extractor cost isk, does setting up routing cost ISK? What is the average ISK cost I can be expecting to pay when I want to set up a complete production site on a planet?

(2) How difficult is it to move from one planet to a new one? This is sort of related to (1).

I was thinking that I might start my first PI in highsec, as I kind of learn how to set things up and what to expect, and then move out to low sec for better yeilds later..

Any thoughts or tips about all this?
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-11-03 22:20:47 UTC
Some 10M per planet, usually not a big deal. You can setup everything and only when you press submit, the buildings will be "bought" and placed (except the command center, which needs to be placed and submitted first). Re-placing the extractor unit costs ISK, moving just the heads does not.

Setting up a planet is a clickfest, you don't want to move often ... Roll

I'm my own NPC alt.

Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#3 - 2016-11-03 22:45:55 UTC
Yes, construction and upgrading costs ISK. Expect to spend about 5-10m a planet if I recall correctly.

Get to know this awesome website if you plan on doing highsec factory PI.

@lunettelulu7

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#4 - 2016-11-03 22:57:14 UTC
Selene Dukat wrote:
(2) How difficult is it to move from one planet to a new one? This is sort of related to (1).

In addition to the answers above, for this it's not difficult at all.

Once a Command Center is placed on a planet, there is no way to recover it. You can however decommission it:

http://puu.sh/s5B6g/2e75004643.png

So if you are running the maximum number of planets for your skills and want a colony on new planet, you can decommission the one you don't want anymore and then proceed to start a new one.

The decommissioning is quick. You just click and confirm and then that colony is removed.
Memphis Baas
#5 - 2016-11-04 00:32:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Setting down the structures costs ISK; the biggest cost is upgrading the Command Center to the level you need to support your other structures. You're looking at several million ISK for that. As a contrast, extractors only cost something like 45k to install.

So as a result, I would guess that most setups that people use have fixed factories (processors), grouped close together to minimize link lengths, and then they chase the resource hot spots around the planet by moving the extractor (daily?) and re-linking it.

Pay attention to where the hotspots are on the various types of planets. Gas giants, for example, usually have rotating bands at the two temperate latitudes, so you can either place your "processing base" at the equator to try to catch resources from both bands as they rotate past, or at one of the poles so no matter where the hot spot rotates, you have an equal drop-down link from the pole to extract it.

Ultimately, you'll feel the need to train the Command Center Upgrades skill to 5, just to be able to fit "typical" setups like 2 extractors -> 2 processors -> 1 combined processor. It's the way CCP balances things (ships too); you don't unlock the full listed potential of your ships until you've trained the powergrid and CPU skills to 5 on your character.

EDIT: The hardest part is extracting your materials from the planet and safely transporting them. If you look at possible transport ships, you have basic T1 industrials, T1 industrials with a large PI bay, and T2 transports (with a large fleet bay). The T1 ships have NO defenses (T2 transports have some, not that much though), and the large cargo bays are a huge temptation to transport hundred-million ISK loads in one go, in a ship that can be ganked by an 800k ISK Catalyst. Don't do that.
Selene Dukat
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#6 - 2016-11-04 01:14:04 UTC
Thank you, you all have been immensely helpful. :)
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-11-04 03:49:09 UTC
Selene Dukat wrote:
Hello all,

I've been reading a lot of planetary interaction guides, both on the web and on youtube. But after studying a lot, I still have some unanswered questions:

(1) Are there costs in ISK associated with each part of the set up on a planet? Does placing an extractor cost isk, does setting up routing cost ISK? What is the average ISK cost I can be expecting to pay when I want to set up a complete production site on a planet?

(2) How difficult is it to move from one planet to a new one? This is sort of related to (1).

I was thinking that I might start my first PI in highsec, as I kind of learn how to set things up and what to expect, and then move out to low sec for better yeilds later..

Any thoughts or tips about all this?


I make around 70 mill a day across 4 chars with PI. Not much, i know, but its the most i can make with the least amount of effort.

The important thing with PI is to understand what you want to build, how many planets you will need to set up in order to make the end product, how much the end product will sell for and if its in demand or not.

You should calculate all of this BEFORE you set it up, as it will save you both time and isk.

You should also scout the planets you want to use AHEAD of time. Key things to look out for are:

1. How much Tax is the Customs office charging you? You dont want to set up on a planet that charges 25% when theres a 15% tax next door. Customs offices are largely player-owned so the tax they charge will vary a lot.

2. Is the PI materials abundant on the planet, or non-existant? Hisec is terrible in some regards to the availability for some materials on some types of planets.

Otherwise, good luck. If you need help, send me a mail, id be happy to correspond with you.

Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#8 - 2016-11-04 09:02:36 UTC
In highsec there is a NPC tax levied 5% import and 10% export in addition to whatever the POCO owner charges. The tax rate you see is combined. You can reduce this tax by up to 50% (10%/level) with the customs code expertise skill. It's a rank 2 skill - a couple of days to train to level 4 - well worth it if you intend to do PI in highsec.

The NPC tax does not apply in low or nullsec.

I structure my colonies to make P2 - it is reduced workload. In highsec I use the P2 I harvest in T2 module production. In nullsec I send it to a factory planet that makes P3 and P4 for drones and mobile structures.

PI is ideal for multiple characters on the same account. My PI ALTS are also trained to research and copy blueprints which I sell on contract - a couple of months training and they'll produce 150-200 million/week forever with an hour or so attention each week to update PI programs and harvest.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-11-04 09:52:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
Memphis Baas wrote:

EDIT: The hardest part is extracting your materials from the planet and safely transporting them. If you look at possible transport ships, you have basic T1 industrials, T1 industrials with a large PI bay, and T2 transports (with a large fleet bay). The T1 ships have NO defenses (T2 transports have some, not that much though), and the large cargo bays are a huge temptation to transport hundred-million ISK loads in one go, in a ship that can be ganked by an 800k ISK Catalyst. Don't do that.

If they can catch you.
improved cloak + 4 warp stabies + MWD and you can fly as safe as a Blokaderunner if you can do the MWD trick
Memphis Baas
#10 - 2016-11-04 10:40:32 UTC
That's a big if.

And, some T1 industrials do not have enough powergrid to install the (appropriately sized) medium MWD. Those that do, you have to completely remove any buffer tank to make enough powergrid for the MWD. You're lowering your defenses from (pathetic) 30k EHP, to (non-existent) 9k, so you can do a dance move.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-11-04 12:21:09 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
That's a big if.

And, some T1 industrials do not have enough powergrid to install the (appropriately sized) medium MWD. Those that do, you have to completely remove any buffer tank to make enough powergrid for the MWD. You're lowering your defenses from (pathetic) 30k EHP, to (non-existent) 9k, so you can do a dance move.

Yes, I have to remove the shield extrenders and I really don't care. Do you really think 30k will save you when they target you? In the end I'm swapping "being at the mercy of the gankers" against "am I good enough to reliably pull the MWD trick".
With the same argument you could argue for shield extenders on covert ops frigs. If they catch you, you are dead and it doesn't matter if you have 9 or 30k tank. The 30k tank will only save you if the ganker is really bad at what he is doing. I personally don't like to rely on the mercy or stupidity of gankers.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#12 - 2016-11-04 16:09:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
Some extra information, you should decide where you are going with PI,

1. Selling raw materials - easiest way to earn a small weekly profit (few million), every week, cheapest set up.

2. Refined materials - still easy, P-2 offers better returns bit more clicks (time), and small investment to get more power/CPU to have an extractor, and basic, advanced facilities to produce products.

2A. If you plan on getting into the game as an industrial player or just want to cut cost for T-2 modules then at this tier level you can stop here and just have your advanced facilities make products for your T-2 builds as many T-2 builds will be covered by advanced facilities.

3. Tier 3 and 4 products, more clicky, longer waits for profit, doesn't make sense to be at this level unless you are actually building stuff with it, such as a POS (might be going away soon), and related labs/structures, moble depots, etc.

----note---- because of the changes coming soon (POS removal), and all those things related to run a POS products prices may not hold for 3/4 products at their current level because a drop in demand as those items that use them (3/4), are not in higher demand.

4. Final product, tier 4 high tech products, as above, not worth it if you are not building serious products as you will find unless you are in a WH or Null keeping your facilities running with products will be a big challenge in high sec set ups, I find myself buying millions in base products just to make a few tier 4 products and have grown tired of the running around to get stuff, this is the price of making these products in high sec tho.


Final thoughts, if you want stuff purely for profit then produce stuff related to weapons, guidance systems, robotics (T-2 drones), etc, produce products that are consumed by the game play of others by combat and you will see more movement of products, I found that because I do make many T-2 builds that it is better for me to build up to tier 3 products, I have numerous basic and advanced facilities but only 1 high tec facility, it's mostly idle.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#13 - 2016-11-04 16:27:36 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
Some extra information, you should decide where you are going with PI,

1. Selling raw materials - easiest way to earn a small weekly profit (few million), every week, cheapest set up.

2. Refined materials - still easy, P-2 offers better returns bit more clicks (time), and small investment to get more power/CPU to have an extractor, and basic, advanced facilities to produce products.

2A. If you plan on getting into the game as an industrial player or just want to cut cost for T-2 modules then then at this tier level you can stop here and just have your advanced facilities make products for your T-2 builds as many T-2 builds will be covered by advanced facilities.

3. Tier 3 and 4 products, more clicky, longer waits for profit, doesn't make sense to be at this level unless you are actually building stuff with it, such as a POS (might be going away soon), and related labs/structures, moble depots, etc.

----note---- because of the changes coming soon (POS removal), and all those things related to run a POS products prices may not hold for 3/4 products at their current level because a drop in demand as those items that use them (3/4), are not in higher demand.

4. Final product, tier 4 high tech products, as above, not worth it if you are not building serious products as you will find unless you are in a WH or Null keeping your facilities running with products will be a big challenge in high sec set ups, I find myself buying millions in base products just to make a few tier 4 products and have grown tired of the running around to get stuff, this is the price of making these products in high sec tho.


Final thoughts, if you want stuff purely for profit the produce stuff related to weapons, guidance systems, robotics (T-2 drones), etc, produce products that are consumed by the game play of others by combat and you will see more movement of products, I found that because I do make many T-2 builds that it is better for me to build up to tier 3 products, I have numerous basic and advanced facilities but only 1 high tec facility, it's mostly idle.


Just wanted to add to this, finding an empty C1 WH with a lowsec static is pretty easy, and is safer to do manufacturing/research in than HS or LS, in my opinion. With a properly set up large POS, no one is really going to bother taking it down. As a side benefit, you have access to the best PI in the game.
Selene Dukat
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#14 - 2016-11-04 16:34:19 UTC
Quote:

Just wanted to add to this, finding an empty C1 WH with a lowsec static is pretty easy, and is safer to do manufacturing/research in than HS or LS, in my opinion. With a properly set up large POS, no one is really going to bother taking it down. As a side benefit, you have access to the best PI in the game.



That sounds..... a little out of my league. I'm a person that's dabbled in eve across 10 years, but only dabbled. After siphoning off a couple million SP to give to a hauling alt, I only have about 15mil skill points to my name.

Wormholes? I've never been to one in my life and POS? I can't do that I don't think. I suppose I could look for a corp that operates out of WH space. But I've been trying to avoid jumping in and joining a corp that's out of my league.

In previous stints in EVE I rushed right out to nullsec convinced good corps to take me in, then got my noob butt handed too me, embarrassing myself because I don't even have some of the basics.

THIS TIME.... I want EVE to last. I am willing to start from the beginning and go slow until I really learn fundamentals. I went back and did all the career missions, I'm sitting in highsec slowly relearning all the facets of eve.

I just now think I can responsibly set up some PI for myself..... but I feel like if I try to go all elite WH and stuff I will just fail because I dont have the foundation to support stuff like that yet.
Selene Dukat
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#15 - 2016-11-04 16:39:01 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:

Final thoughts, if you want stuff purely for profit the produce stuff related to weapons, guidance systems, robotics (T-2 drones), etc, produce products that are consumed by the game play of others by combat and you will see more movement of products, I found that because I do make many T-2 builds that it is better for me to build up to tier 3 products, I have numerous basic and advanced facilities but only 1 high tec facility, it's mostly idle.


Thank you, your post was really helpful in trying to figure out what tier to produce. I just want the passive income generation, as one leg of my 3-leg ISK generation for myself. Because I don't plan to make my own goods, I'll take your advice about weapon related products.
Selene Dukat
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#16 - 2016-11-04 16:43:51 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
That's a big if.

And, some T1 industrial do not have enough powergrid to install the (appropriately sized) medium MWD. Those that do, you have to completely remove any buffer tank to make enough powergrid for the MWD. You're lowering your defenses from (pathetic) 30k EHP, to (non-existent) 9k, so you can do a dance move.



I can fly transport ships, fit cover ops cloaks and micro jump drives and such. I don't plan to do any of this in nullsec unless down the road I make a move to a nullsec alliance. In lowsec I would make more trips with a blockade runner rather than make less trips with something with more cargo space but more easily targetable.

I know you still have to be careful in any ship, even a cloaked one.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#17 - 2016-11-04 16:44:32 UTC
Selene Dukat wrote:
That sounds..... a little out of my league. I'm a person that's dabbled in eve across 10 years, but only dabbled. After siphoning off a couple million SP to give to a hauling alt, I only have about 15mil skill points to my name.

Wormholes? I've never been to one in my life and POS? I can't do that I don't think. I suppose I could look for a corp that operates out of WH space. But I've been trying to avoid jumping in and joining a corp that's out of my league.

In previous stints in EVE I rushed right out to nullsec convinced good corps to take me in, then got my noob butt handed too me, embarrassing myself because I don't even have some of the basics.

THIS TIME.... I want EVE to last. I am willing to start from the beginning and go slow until I really learn fundamentals. I went back and did all the career missions, I'm sitting in highsec slowly relearning all the facets of eve.

I just now think I can responsibly set up some PI for myself..... but I feel like if I try to go all elite WH and stuff I will just fail because I dont have the foundation to support stuff like that yet.


I definitely understand. I was just throwing it out as a potential long term goal if manufacturing/etc. is something you enjoy doing. Paradoxically, even though wormholes are the most dangerous places in EVE, C1 wormholes are some of the safest places to do industry (in my opinion)
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2016-11-04 17:10:09 UTC
You will love wormholes for exfiltration. Blink Seriously, my farm is in deep nullsec, the only safe way out are wormhole chains ...

My recommendation, stick to simple P2 which can be build on one planet for now, saves the hassle of exporting/importing P1.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Selene Dukat
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#19 - 2016-11-04 20:17:04 UTC
You guys are the best. I'll try to make and update on how to goes as I get started.

(Funny noob story: last night I started to search for planets for the first time. I spend an hour trying to figure out why I couldn't ever find the materials I was supposed to find on certain planets. Until I realized I forgot there was a P ZERO and was looking for P1. Big smile )
Memphis Baas
#20 - 2016-11-04 22:20:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
P0 -> P1 allows you to find one resource and maximize its collection; some P1 mats are in demand, and even though they're priced cheaply, you can take advantage of volume. With only 1 extractor, you have enough CPU/Grid for 5-8 processors, meaning you process 5-8x the rate of mats that others process. If it's a rich resource, this works out well. It's a lot of material to export, though, so if the POCO taxes are high, this won't work.

P0 -> P1 \
P0 -> P1 -> P2 requires 2 extractors, so you'll likely only have power and CPU for a single line of processors, meaning you get 5 - 8x less than the scenario above. You also have to find a planet that provides BOTH P0's, which isn't easy; most planets in high sec have one of the P0's in abundance, but the other is rare / low quantity.

Third option is to find the richest P0 -> P1 planets and apply 5-8 processors, and then export and import the mats into a barren or some other terrestrial planet where you can do the higher reactions (P1 -> P2 etc), also with multiple processing lines. Also very dependent on the POCO taxes; you pay taxes when you export (lift stuff off the planet) and when you import (drop stuff to the surface).

Fourth option is to find profitable end tier (P4) reactions, buy the P3 mats from the market, and use a bunch of planets with as many factory lines as possible to make the P4 product. This works because the end tier is the most expensive in the whole P0 - P4 chain, and so the variation in price from day to day be HIGH. Kinda like daytrading in PLEX; you're flipping high-value materials, the profit can be huge. Loss can be huge too.

Otherwise, keep in mind, for expanding your operations, that each character is limited to a maximum of 6 planets. It's arguably faster to train 2 alts to do 5 planets each, than it is to train 1 character to 6 (because taking the skills to 4 takes less time than training to 5). You can make a PI alt (PI skills, trading skills to reduce taxes a bit, and ability to fly a T2 transport with covops cloak) with under 5 million skillpoints, so injecting skills is an option. It's expensive, but you get the full 500k points from each injector, no loss. You also don't need to activate multi-character training or anything like that; you can just apply the injectors one by one without the need to activate a skill queue.

It depends on market prices and what taxes you find on planets, but I'd say typically 100 mil per week per character (5 planets) should be possible.
12Next page