These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Looking for a Definitive answer on Docking in for Eng Complex

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Androxian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2016-11-04 12:41:26 UTC
I don't see the big deal in not allowing a Rorqual to dock in the large complex.
These buildings don't have any bonuses to refining, so like any other ISK aware person that want to maximize profit would still want the mined ores to be refined in a upgraded Minmatar station for the +10% bonuses.

But if the future Large Drilling platform would not allow the Rorqual to dock. That would be bad.
TrippyHippy
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2016-11-05 21:48:23 UTC
Androxian wrote:
I don't see the big deal in not allowing a Rorqual to dock in the large complex.
These buildings don't have any bonuses to refining, so like any other ISK aware person that want to maximize profit would still want the mined ores to be refined in a upgraded Minmatar station for the +10% bonuses.

But if the future Large Drilling platform would not allow the Rorqual to dock. That would be bad.


Because at some point Stations are going away. You also certainly can get a repro bonus out of citadels via rigs.

Ideally consistency of docking requirements across the Citadel/Complex/Platform sizes would be ideal. But industrial ships of any-stripe should be frankly allowed to dock in any Engineering Complex. If you can dock Freighters and Jump freighters rorquals should be included. Yeah I know "battle rorqs" but 95% of them will be used for a variety of industry purposes and while not optimal for moving materials, forcing industrialists to spend 2bn isk to get a freighter just to move between citadels is derpy. There is no logic that I can see behind it.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#23 - 2016-11-06 14:20:20 UTC
Lupercus Mars wrote:
Cee Two wrote:

2. An Azbel is a capital shipyard and will want to be fed millions of m3 of minerals, orcas cant handle that. As I said in my previous post this is how you would have to get minerals there with the system as it is.
a) Rorqual mine ore in a site or belt
b) Ore has to be brought to a Fortizar (20bn) unless you are being super-risky and bringing a freighter to the site.
c) Ore has to be hauled to an Astrahus (5bn rigged) via freighter because L/XL T2 Rigs are broken pricewise (20bn each! for 2%)
d) Ore now has to be hauled AGAIN via freighter to an Azbel (10bn rigged) to make the capital ship.

You are replacing a single pos costing 2bn (generous) with 3 citadels totalling 35bn ISK to do the same job (and more than tripling fuel costs). You are also making people use freighters which is highly unsafe, AND on top of that they have to haul the ore to at least 2 not 3 different structures to make this happen. This is not only clicky clicky but 1700% cost increase to do the same thing you can do now. CCPlease.


Man you must have hated to live in nullsec befor citadels because this was my route:

1. Import ore from either staging or jita with jf's to Minmatar station
2. Move refined minerals from Minmatar station to amarr station via jump bridge
3. Build parts in amarr station

So even not accounting for the hauling of ore to refinery part, that ment freighters with minerals had to warp 2 times of both times they could be bubbled along the way. It ment I needed an upgraded minmatar station(80 billion isk give or take) and an upgraded amarr station(80 billion isk give or take), 2 posses with jump bridge(ehh lets say 2 bill each), coz god slinging freighters through a gate is pretty suicidal.

Now in the new world its this

1. Import ore to the Engineering complex through jf's
2. undock freighter from engineering complex full of ore to instaundock raitaru refinery(20 second warp max on grid so can see bubbles)
3. undock freighter from raitaru full of minerals and instawarp back to azbel or sotiyo(again 20 seconds warp as you are on grid)

Or hell, you can just throw in a t1 refining rig on your building azbel or sotiyo and not have to worry about hauling what so ever. Yeah om my god you lose what 1% effeciancy, oh no


All im seeing is you get more chooices what to do. You can go maximum effort and get maximum profit or you can be lazy as **** and settle for lower margins but pretty much zero effort. Just the option of building with bonus in the same place as you can refine is an absolute masterfull idea.


Also there are soooo many miners out there who haul with freighters its not even funny lol. And saying warping a freighter between citadels/engineering complex is risky is just laughable. You can instawarp between structures, they are on grid so you can see hostiles once you undock. So where is the risk in this?
As your not addressing ANYTHING to do with the post you replied to, you just wasted a whole lot of time writing nonsense.
But then this is the Eve forums, where much of what is said is just as irrelevant and off topic as your reply.

And seriously, if you are as you say, a super/capital builder, you would know that 1% loss in reprocessing can cost billions at most, your profit margin at best.


You seem to have forgotten, getting the ore from the belt to a citadel to put it in your "invulnerable insta warping freighters". Or do miners now have to take (invulnerable?) freighters to belts. I mean really, there is no risk having a Rorqual sitting in a belt or anom long enough to collect a freighter load of ore and of course warping a freighter to a loaded Rorqual holds no risk either.


-- - -- - -- - --
It seems with the restrictions on Rorqual's docking, CCP's plan is for only the largest richest groups to undertake any sort of industrial/mining activities.
This is only 100% the opposite of FozzySov (also a bit of a failure) where all groups, big and small had the same opportunities.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lupercus Mars
Hawking Applied Sciences Institute
#24 - 2016-11-06 23:04:23 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Lupercus Mars wrote:
Cee Two wrote:

2. An Azbel is a capital shipyard and will want to be fed millions of m3 of minerals, orcas cant handle that. As I said in my previous post this is how you would have to get minerals there with the system as it is.
a) Rorqual mine ore in a site or belt
b) Ore has to be brought to a Fortizar (20bn) unless you are being super-risky and bringing a freighter to the site.
c) Ore has to be hauled to an Astrahus (5bn rigged) via freighter because L/XL T2 Rigs are broken pricewise (20bn each! for 2%)
d) Ore now has to be hauled AGAIN via freighter to an Azbel (10bn rigged) to make the capital ship.

You are replacing a single pos costing 2bn (generous) with 3 citadels totalling 35bn ISK to do the same job (and more than tripling fuel costs). You are also making people use freighters which is highly unsafe, AND on top of that they have to haul the ore to at least 2 not 3 different structures to make this happen. This is not only clicky clicky but 1700% cost increase to do the same thing you can do now. CCPlease.


Man you must have hated to live in nullsec befor citadels because this was my route:

1. Import ore from either staging or jita with jf's to Minmatar station
2. Move refined minerals from Minmatar station to amarr station via jump bridge
3. Build parts in amarr station

So even not accounting for the hauling of ore to refinery part, that ment freighters with minerals had to warp 2 times of both times they could be bubbled along the way. It ment I needed an upgraded minmatar station(80 billion isk give or take) and an upgraded amarr station(80 billion isk give or take), 2 posses with jump bridge(ehh lets say 2 bill each), coz god slinging freighters through a gate is pretty suicidal.

Now in the new world its this

1. Import ore to the Engineering complex through jf's
2. undock freighter from engineering complex full of ore to instaundock raitaru refinery(20 second warp max on grid so can see bubbles)
3. undock freighter from raitaru full of minerals and instawarp back to azbel or sotiyo(again 20 seconds warp as you are on grid)

Or hell, you can just throw in a t1 refining rig on your building azbel or sotiyo and not have to worry about hauling what so ever. Yeah om my god you lose what 1% effeciancy, oh no


All im seeing is you get more chooices what to do. You can go maximum effort and get maximum profit or you can be lazy as **** and settle for lower margins but pretty much zero effort. Just the option of building with bonus in the same place as you can refine is an absolute masterfull idea.


Also there are soooo many miners out there who haul with freighters its not even funny lol. And saying warping a freighter between citadels/engineering complex is risky is just laughable. You can instawarp between structures, they are on grid so you can see hostiles once you undock. So where is the risk in this?
As your not addressing ANYTHING to do with the post you replied to, you just wasted a whole lot of time writing nonsense.
But then this is the Eve forums, where much of what is said is just as irrelevant and off topic as your reply.

And seriously, if you are as you say, a super/capital builder, you would know that 1% loss in reprocessing can cost billions at most, your profit margin at best.


You seem to have forgotten, getting the ore from the belt to a citadel to put it in your "invulnerable insta warping freighters". Or do miners now have to take (invulnerable?) freighters to belts. I mean really, there is no risk having a Rorqual sitting in a belt or anom long enough to collect a freighter load of ore and of course warping a freighter to a loaded Rorqual holds no risk either.


-- - -- - -- - --
It seems with the restrictions on Rorqual's docking, CCP's plan is for only the largest richest groups to undertake any sort of industrial/mining activities.
This is only 100% the opposite of FozzySov (also a bit of a failure) where all groups, big and small had the same opportunities.



I pretty much stated plenty of miners use freighters to haul ore, yes they are vulnerable but they arent that long in a belt.

And as a supercap producer if 1% loss in reprocessing is all my profit margin im doing something wrong
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#25 - 2016-11-07 08:06:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Lupercus Mars wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Lupercus Mars wrote:
Cee Two wrote:

2. An Azbel is a capital shipyard and will want to be fed millions of m3 of minerals, orcas cant handle that. As I said in my previous post this is how you would have to get minerals there with the system as it is.
a) Rorqual mine ore in a site or belt
b) Ore has to be brought to a Fortizar (20bn) unless you are being super-risky and bringing a freighter to the site.
c) Ore has to be hauled to an Astrahus (5bn rigged) via freighter because L/XL T2 Rigs are broken pricewise (20bn each! for 2%)
d) Ore now has to be hauled AGAIN via freighter to an Azbel (10bn rigged) to make the capital ship.

You are replacing a single pos costing 2bn (generous) with 3 citadels totalling 35bn ISK to do the same job (and more than tripling fuel costs). You are also making people use freighters which is highly unsafe, AND on top of that they have to haul the ore to at least 2 not 3 different structures to make this happen. This is not only clicky clicky but 1700% cost increase to do the same thing you can do now. CCPlease.


Man you must have hated to live in nullsec befor citadels because this was my route:

1. Import ore from either staging or jita with jf's to Minmatar station
2. Move refined minerals from Minmatar station to amarr station via jump bridge
3. Build parts in amarr station

So even not accounting for the hauling of ore to refinery part, that ment freighters with minerals had to warp 2 times of both times they could be bubbled along the way. It ment I needed an upgraded minmatar station(80 billion isk give or take) and an upgraded amarr station(80 billion isk give or take), 2 posses with jump bridge(ehh lets say 2 bill each), coz god slinging freighters through a gate is pretty suicidal.

Now in the new world its this

1. Import ore to the Engineering complex through jf's
2. undock freighter from engineering complex full of ore to instaundock raitaru refinery(20 second warp max on grid so can see bubbles)
3. undock freighter from raitaru full of minerals and instawarp back to azbel or sotiyo(again 20 seconds warp as you are on grid)

Or hell, you can just throw in a t1 refining rig on your building azbel or sotiyo and not have to worry about hauling what so ever. Yeah om my god you lose what 1% effeciancy, oh no


All im seeing is you get more chooices what to do. You can go maximum effort and get maximum profit or you can be lazy as **** and settle for lower margins but pretty much zero effort. Just the option of building with bonus in the same place as you can refine is an absolute masterfull idea.


Also there are soooo many miners out there who haul with freighters its not even funny lol. And saying warping a freighter between citadels/engineering complex is risky is just laughable. You can instawarp between structures, they are on grid so you can see hostiles once you undock. So where is the risk in this?
As your not addressing ANYTHING to do with the post you replied to, you just wasted a whole lot of time writing nonsense.
But then this is the Eve forums, where much of what is said is just as irrelevant and off topic as your reply.

And seriously, if you are as you say, a super/capital builder, you would know that 1% loss in reprocessing can cost billions at most, your profit margin at best.


You seem to have forgotten, getting the ore from the belt to a citadel to put it in your "invulnerable insta warping freighters". Or do miners now have to take (invulnerable?) freighters to belts. I mean really, there is no risk having a Rorqual sitting in a belt or anom long enough to collect a freighter load of ore and of course warping a freighter to a loaded Rorqual holds no risk either.


-- - -- - -- - --
It seems with the restrictions on Rorqual's docking, CCP's plan is for only the largest richest groups to undertake any sort of industrial/mining activities.
This is only 100% the opposite of FozzySov (also a bit of a failure) where all groups, big and small had the same opportunities.



I pretty much stated plenty of miners use freighters to haul ore, yes they are vulnerable but they arent that long in a belt.

And as a supercap producer if 1% loss in reprocessing is all my profit margin im doing something wrong
I wouldn't say "plenty" and it is far from common practice - Neither should it be. Devs need to take a closer look at the play styles they are designing for - We don't all belong to blob alliances and we certainly aren't all mega rich so can afford structures we could in no way defend due to the overly long commitment required to defend them.

Buying a 3 bil Rorqual is very different to being forced to buy a 30 bil EC to dock it in.

I never said it was all your profit - just cuts into profit. Or do you charge the customer for your supbar building practices?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#26 - 2016-11-07 08:15:47 UTC
... why is it so unbalanced if L could dock capitals i mean hell i can dock supers in a M pos and they are much much cheaper. with the addition of fatigue small groups finally got to capitals semi regularly if they were so inclined if the only player structures able to dock a capital are going to be 12b+, hard to put down and hard to move once POS are removed they will go right back to being something only wealthy groups can be expected to use

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Previous page12