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Privateering License as a concept for ISk sinking/Eve income

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#61 - 2016-11-03 04:54:46 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:




To be honest... the DEVs could have (and should have) gone much further. The time window they gave was too short (something like 2 months would have been better) and they should have produced some actual numbers regarding retention...

But now that I think about it... newbie retention numbers for any MMO will drive any laymen up the wall. If I recall correctly from a DEV (at another company) that I spoke to... MMOs aim to retain 20% of the newbies that come in. But often fall WAY short of that. Anything higher is simply unrealistic.


Yes, this was not a comprehensive analysis of ganking and its effects on players. But something like this could be expanded.

I would have liked to see how the determined retention rates. Was it an average? What about other summary statistics, and what about interval estimates. If the interval estimates for player retention between the ganked and the never killed contain the point estimate of the two groups well...then the point estimates are indistinguishable.

Another take away, is that it isn't just ganking, but more likely player interaction. I would not be surprised that players who join player run corporations and alliances do better too in terms of staying with the game.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
John Yatolile
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#62 - 2016-11-03 17:28:42 UTC
Gou Litvyak wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:

PS CCP collected statistics given at fanfest about player retention would be a good place to start your search.

Yeah that is leaving out the fact that the ganking/griefing caused more players to leave initially, but the few who stayed stayed longer(which was the point). In the end it hurts player retention on the big scale.


Good riddence

Also ganking in newbro systems is bannable if I remember, but carebears need their Jita
As long as you have a brain, you shouldn't be murdered as a newbro in the current state of the game
Don't afk mine, don't autopilot, don't move expensive stuff (that newbros without brains shouldn't have anyway)
easy
If they get in a wardec then whatever corp they joined should have briefed them already
Stupid is not a treatable disease in any way other than erradication
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2016-11-03 18:00:46 UTC
OK, thanks for the replies folks.

Looks to me like ganking isn't in a bad place necessarily right now, but this may be indicative that they should investigate how to retain more of the people who don't want to PvP, alongside how to entice them into trying it in some form.
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#64 - 2016-11-04 00:17:15 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
OK, thanks for the replies folks.

Looks to me like ganking isn't in a bad place necessarily right now, but this may be indicative that they should investigate how to retain more of the people who don't want to PvP, alongside how to entice them into trying it in some form.

Unfortunately, this is a PvP game. People are going to encounter PvP whether they like it or not. What needs to be done with newbies is getting them ready for it. If they know it is a PvP game, then they can learn to protect themselves.

The newbies who join a player run corporation is the responsibility of the CEO, which most likely is a newbie themselves with a couple of months of experience, thinking they know the game. A wardec occurs and they have no clue what to do. I got so many newbie kills when I did highsec wardecs it wasn't even funny. They had no clue what was going on because the CEO and all of the directors were newbs themselves and had no clue. I still stand by the statement that most highsec corporations are badly run and the newbies are better off not being in them at all. They learn the game the wrong way and get bad habits that are hard to break, and believe me I tried to help some of these corps learn how to protect themselves...only for them to ignore me and go do their own thing...and fail badly.

Now, in regards to CCP, 85.5% of new players under 15 days old don't experience PvP at all. Only 1% of them get ganked, which in the grand sense of Eve Online is actually small. Newbies dying isn't really an issue in regards to retention. I think it is more the lack of gameplay.

I think they need to put in a few more missions and maybe make them more interactive.
I think they definately need to make mining more interactive to deter afk mining that is prevalent in the game.
I think they need to fix locater agents so mercs can go back to focused wardecs and let blanket wardecs drop.

This could be a start...
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2016-11-04 03:34:46 UTC
Morgan Agrivar wrote:

...
Now, in regards to CCP, 85.5% of new players under 15 days old don't experience PvP at all. Only 1% of them get ganked, which in the grand sense of Eve Online is actually small. Newbies dying isn't really an issue in regards to retention. I think it is more the lack of gameplay...


If only 1% are ganked then you can not use ganking as a reason why < 15 day old characters choose to quit *or* choose to stay. If it's that low a % then it's effectively a non-issue.

I agree that the NPE should address wars and ganking in some way, and that a corp CEO is responsible for teaching new players how to PvP, mitigate risks or outright avoid combat if need be. All the tools are there already and some of the best adrenaline rushes I had early on were crashing lo-sec gatecamps in a stabbeb nereus whilst fetching PI.

In terms of mining the current system should be left as is. I'd still like to see comet mining anomolys though for active mining options.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2016-11-04 08:09:21 UTC
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
OK, thanks for the replies folks.

Looks to me like ganking isn't in a bad place necessarily right now, but this may be indicative that they should investigate how to retain more of the people who don't want to PvP, alongside how to entice them into trying it in some form.

Unfortunately, this is a PvP game. People are going to encounter PvP whether they like it or not. What needs to be done with newbies is getting them ready for it. If they know it is a PvP game, then they can learn to protect themselves.

The newbies who join a player run corporation is the responsibility of the CEO, which most likely is a newbie themselves with a couple of months of experience, thinking they know the game. A wardec occurs and they have no clue what to do. I got so many newbie kills when I did highsec wardecs it wasn't even funny. They had no clue what was going on because the CEO and all of the directors were newbs themselves and had no clue. I still stand by the statement that most highsec corporations are badly run and the newbies are better off not being in them at all. They learn the game the wrong way and get bad habits that are hard to break, and believe me I tried to help some of these corps learn how to protect themselves...only for them to ignore me and go do their own thing...and fail badly.

Now, in regards to CCP, 85.5% of new players under 15 days old don't experience PvP at all. Only 1% of them get ganked, which in the grand sense of Eve Online is actually small. Newbies dying isn't really an issue in regards to retention. I think it is more the lack of gameplay.

I think they need to put in a few more missions and maybe make them more interactive.
I think they definately need to make mining more interactive to deter afk mining that is prevalent in the game.
I think they need to fix locater agents so mercs can go back to focused wardecs and let blanket wardecs drop.

This could be a start...


I would say that the key to players staing in game longer is player interaction. Logging in and interacting with just NPCs is not going to be fun for very long for most people. And PvP is one form of interaction. Why ganked players stay the longest? No idea. Maybe after being ganked there is quite a bit of latitude on what you can do in game and they can pursue directions they did not think were possible....IDK, I'm just babbling. But more player interaction strikes me as the way to secure the future for the game.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#67 - 2016-11-04 13:23:51 UTC
Well Teckos, I can see where you are coming from but usually positive player interaction is what keeps people together. The problem is how quickly that devolves when mistrust is one of the cornerstones of this game. Paranoia is another.

This is a game where just joining a corporation involves background checks more stringent than the FBI does. Mistrust and greed fuel the dissolution of alliances, just for some game currency that has no real value outside of it. Scams take place on a daily basis with no thought of consequence for the victim. This game is a HTFU game, with little to no empathy for those who have just discovered it.

As I have said before in another thread, alpha clones will mostly be alts of returning or veteran players and I doubt we will actually see more new players coming into this game. When someone asks me about Eve Online, the first thing that comes out of my mouth is 'Eve Online is not for everyone', and I stand by that.

I love this game because it is so harsh. It is that unforgiving. People come into these forums and complain about it and we just laugh at them, since I guess it was much harder and harsher way back when. I have only played for a bit over three years and I have seen it become much easier to not interact with others and wish to be left alone and much, much harder to create content in order to 'enrich' the experience of others.

I also laugh when I see the forum posts of 'Eve is dying'. It is not dying, it is just stagnant right now. And a privateering license will not correct that.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#68 - 2016-11-04 19:33:00 UTC
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
I have only played for a bit over three years and I have seen it become much easier to not interact with others and wish to be left alone and much, much harder to create content in order to 'enrich' the experience of others.


I think that might be the key. Not that Eve should be impossible for solo, but that CCP should be looking to encourage more interaction. Problem is it is easy to say that vs. doing it. The whole idea of Sov is to get people to interact. You need to cooperate to take/hold sov, and you need to not cooperate to have warfare. People complained about the old systems (using POS, then sov structures, and now Fozzie sov). Which one was best? IDK, but if we looked at the Eve Offline numbers....I'd say the POS sov system. Of course, that is not the best metric...so maybe not.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online