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Mining Laser Skill Progression
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Rorik Banesmith
EDI Logistics
#1 - 2016-11-02 04:56:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Rorik Banesmith
Hello,

I've encountered a bit of a brick wall with my mining skill progression. I've decided to specialise in mining frigates, and 'am using the Miner II. However, I'm looking for ways to improve my mining yield, and have decided to take the tech II mining frigate route instead of Mining Barges.

Now the problem is that I would like to use the mining crystals. But the only mining laser which can use these are the Deep Core Miner II's. This means that I will have a very long training time. As I will need Resource Processing V, Resource Processing Efficiency V, Mining V, and Deep Core Mining II.

This is pretty harsh, as there is a non-deep core strip mining option which allows Barge operators to get into crystals for general non-deep core mining. But sadly, no such option exists with the mining lasers.

Is there an easier way of getting more yield from my mining frigate than Miner II? Or is that pretty much it?
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#2 - 2016-11-02 05:16:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mephiztopheleze
The Deep Core miners are for mining Mercoxit. I believe, but I'm not sure, that you can use those miners with other crystals to mine other stuff. I could be very wrong however.

You'll probably find the most profitable thing to mine with the ORE frigates is Gas. Either the Cytoserocin clouds for booster production or the high-end Fullerite gases in wormholes used for T3 production, this stuff can run upwards of ISK50m/Venture load. T-II Gas Harvesters are a big step up from the T-I.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2016-11-02 05:23:54 UTC
I can't speak specifically to advanced mining (which is what you are talking about)...

But I can say that you are looking at things a little wrong.


While Tech 2 equipment offers straight upgrades over the Tech 1 versions (at the cost of higher CPU-Powergrid and capacitor needs)... Tech 2 ships do not follow this paradigm.


Tech 2 ships are specializations of Tech 1 ships. They are better in some areas, worse in other areas, and/or don't change in other areas.

In the case of Mining Frigates; The Venture is a good mining ship. However, the Tech 2 variants do nor offer that much of an increase in terms of mining yield. Instead, they offer the ability to cloak... which is a BIG DEAL because you can pick and choose when you are vulnerable to others and hide for as long as you want/need to.
This allows you to mine in more hostile places that a Mining Barge would be extremely vulnerable in.


No matter what, you will not reach the mining yields of Mining Barges with Mining Frigates.
But if you choose to fly Mining Barges... they will come with their own set of strengths and weaknesses that will require different fittings and tactics.


Now... you could try to get some "booster" ships involved. Ships like the Porpoise, the Orca, and the Rorqual can offer bonuses and can fit special "energy field probes" that increase your mining laser range, shorten cycle time, and reduce capacitor cost.
But this requires teamwork and organization.

How did you Veterans start?
Rorik Banesmith
EDI Logistics
#4 - 2016-11-02 06:47:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rorik Banesmith
Thanks,

Yes I understand that the primary benefit of the tech II mining frigates is covert ops cloak - which is for mining in hostile territory. That is why I'm taking this rout instead of mining barges. As such, the nature of this work rules out booster ships or fleet coordination. As I believe the Mining foreman ships would be better complimented by Barges.

The kind of mining which I have in mind is solo, independent operations in high risk areas.

To this end I have already had a lot of success with the Venture. As I have been using the fit below:

Quote:
[Venture, Low Sec Miner]
Warp Core Stabilizer I

Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Small Tapered Capacitor Infusion I
Rash Compact Burst Jammer

Miner II
Miner II
Prototype Cloaking Device I

[Empty Rig slot]
Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I

Cap Booster 150 x2


Essentially, I can get most of the benefit of a Prospect. But fitted to a Venture hull. I do not have the full covert ops capability. But I can sit cloaked in the belt, align, de-cloak and warp out when trouble comes. The warp core stabiliser brings my core strength to +3. The increased agility from my astrometric module means that my time to warp is very short.

I added the Cap Booster and ECM Burst as a last ditch counter-measure to break locks and escape multiple warp scrambles. But, honestly, I've never needed to use this. My attention to D-scan is now so good that I have the confidence to mine even in busy Low Sec systems.

Most importantly, this Venture fit is extremely cheap and I am gaining valuable survival skills for when I'm able to fly the Prospect. Though, I have been so incredibly successful with the Venture that I'm starting to think a Prospect is no longer required. Smile I have never been killed while flying this fit.

I will also look into gas mining. If I can bring in the kind of ISK you're talking about it would be well worth it.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#5 - 2016-11-02 06:54:57 UTC
You may wish to investigate the Path of Jedi Mining in hostile space.

FYI: One Venture load of C320 is around ISK58m.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Rorik Banesmith
EDI Logistics
#6 - 2016-11-02 07:11:48 UTC
I watched the Jedi mining video's. I'm impressed, though, that is definitely a job for the Prospect.
Memphis Baas
#7 - 2016-11-02 12:37:52 UTC
So, to answer your original question, combined with Shah's insight:

The way to get more yield from your (T2) mining frigates isn't an improvement of the mining lasers past the T2 ones; it's to use the ships' cloaking and escape abilities to go into even more dangerous space, so you can grab bites of the more valuable ores/gases.

The mining barges are for increased yield. The mining frigates are for increasingly risky ninja-ing.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#8 - 2016-11-02 18:56:04 UTC
Rorik Banesmith wrote:
Hello,

I've encountered a bit of a brick wall with my mining skill progression. I've decided to specialise in mining frigates, and 'am using the Miner II. However, I'm looking for ways to improve my mining yield, and have decided to take the tech II mining frigate route instead of Mining Barges.

Now the problem is that I would like to use the mining crystals. But the only mining laser which can use these are the Deep Core Miner II's. This means that I will have a very long training time. As I will need Resource Processing V, Resource Processing Efficiency V, Mining V, and Deep Core Mining II.

This is pretty harsh, as there is a non-deep core strip mining option which allows Barge operators to get into crystals for general non-deep core mining. But sadly, no such option exists with the mining lasers.

Is there an easier way of getting more yield from my mining frigate than Miner II? Or is that pretty much it?



You need to look at Strip Miner I

Then Modulated Strip Miner II which can use every crystal apart from Mercoxit. For both of these you need Mining IV and Mining V respectively.

The problem with the Deep Core variant is that yes it can use Merc crystals, but has a much lower yield when used with the others. It's more specialised than the above two.

If they won't fit to the Expedition Frigate then the Endurance has a 300% bonus to Ore Mining yield and Prospect 100% bonus (I've only used the Endurance for ice mining and Prospect for ninja Gas mining)

Fitting Mining Laser Upgrades will also increase your yield.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Rorik Banesmith
EDI Logistics
#9 - 2016-11-03 01:52:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Rorik Banesmith
Drago Shouna wrote:
You need to look at Strip Miner I

Then Modulated Strip Miner II which can use every crystal apart from Mercoxit. For both of these you need Mining IV and Mining V respectively.

The problem with the Deep Core variant is that yes it can use Merc crystals, but has a much lower yield when used with the others. It's more specialised than the above two.

If they won't fit to the Expedition Frigate then the Endurance has a 300% bonus to Ore Mining yield and Prospect 100% bonus (I've only used the Endurance for ice mining and Prospect for ninja Gas mining)

Fitting Mining Laser Upgrades will also increase your yield.


Hmm. I hadn't noticed that. I was getting all excited about the 300% mining yield on the Endurance. That is until I noticed that it only has one turret allowance for the high slot fittings. Even with only one miner, it will still be pulling in more Ice or ore than the Prospect. Added to this, the need for mining consumables is now halved, and that is a pretty good deal.

Endurance is also a capable covert ship in it's own right. Without the cloak speed penalty it could use an improved cloak, and gain most of the benefits of a Prospect. Considering the success I've had with a cloaked Venture, I'm really looking forward to trying out a cloaked Endurance. Smile The only thing that I'm not too keen on is loosing the +2 warp stab. It means I'm going to be much more reliant on my D-scan and cloak for defence.

As for strip miners. Those are Barge/Exhumer only. I do have alt characters with barge mining skills, so if I want brute hisec mining efficiency then I'd just use that character. But, that is not what I have in mind for this character.
Memphis Baas
#10 - 2016-11-03 01:58:37 UTC
But... but... your character portrait gives the impression of a brute efficiency kind of character! If you're going to use high tech cloaky ships, you need to shave, put on some delicate glasses, maybe wear an outfit with a shirt and tie of some sort, and stand in front of higher tech background with less rust.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#11 - 2016-11-03 02:43:55 UTC
Rorik Banesmith wrote:
Hmm. I hadn't noticed that. I was getting all excited about the 300% mining yield on the Endurance. That is until I noticed that it only has one turret allowance for the high slot fittings. Even with only one miner, it will still be pulling in more Ice or ore than the Prospect. Added to this, the need for mining consumables is now halved, and that is a pretty good deal.


Actually, they'll both yield the same when mining ore. Two mining lasers with a +100% bonus to each (so four effective miners) is the same as one mining laser with a +300% bonus, still four effective miners.

Between the T2 Expedition Frigates, Prospects are a better gas huffer, Endurance is a better ice miner. It's worth noting that the Venture is equal to the Prospect in terms of gas m^3/m huffed. I really wish they'd rejig the Prospect's Expedition Frigate bonuses for a Gas Harvester bonus.

Rorik Banesmith wrote:
The only thing that I'm not too keen on is loosing the +2 warp stab. It means I'm going to be much more reliant on my D-scan and cloak for defence..


If you're relying on the +2 warp strength of a Venture to save you, you're doing it wrong. Anyone hunting Ventures is going to be packing at least a three point scram.

I find bookmarking the actual gas cloud I want to huff out, warping to it, dropping a jetcan and orbiting said jetcan at 1,000m is one of the best defenses against cloaky interlopers. They won't be able to get inside point or scram range without getting decloaked by the gas cloud.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Rorik Banesmith
EDI Logistics
#12 - 2016-11-03 03:53:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rorik Banesmith
Actually, I'm not totally reliant on the +2 warp stab for defence. Because that bonus is common knowledge it becomes redundant - in that most PvP'ers and lowsec ratters will not even bother to target me. Though, to counter the above I add one additional warp stab to bring my core strength to +3. In addition to my cloak, and +3 warp core, I also have ECM Burst and Cap Booster. This is my last and final layer of defence, to break locks and get to warp.

Not that makes much difference of course. I am usually able to identify ships on an intercept from D-scan before they even arrive. By the time they are out of warp and in range, I'm already gone... Or cloaked. So I have never allowed myself to get into a situation where I needed the warp stab, or ECM Burst.

I suppose this is just due to paranoia. As I'm worried about the covert ops ship or bomber, sneaking up, and tackling me. Though, TBH if a stealth bomber is prepared to waste time killing a 1.5 Million ISK fitted ship (and reconfiguring his ship for the tackle). He's probably earned the kill - and I have a whole hangar full of Ventures ready to go.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2016-11-03 05:54:48 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
I can't speak specifically to advanced mining (which is what you are talking about)...

But I can say that you are looking at things a little wrong.


While Tech 2 equipment offers straight upgrades over the Tech 1 versions (at the cost of higher CPU-Powergrid and capacitor needs)... Tech 2 ships do not follow this paradigm.


Tech 2 ships are specializations of Tech 1 ships. They are better in some areas, worse in other areas, and/or don't change in other areas.

In the case of Mining Frigates; The Venture is a good mining ship. However, the Tech 2 variants do nor offer that much of an increase in terms of mining yield. Instead, they offer the ability to cloak... which is a BIG DEAL because you can pick and choose when you are vulnerable to others and hide for as long as you want/need to.
This allows you to mine in more hostile places that a Mining Barge would be extremely vulnerable in.


No matter what, you will not reach the mining yields of Mining Barges with Mining Frigates.
But if you choose to fly Mining Barges... they will come with their own set of strengths and weaknesses that will require different fittings and tactics.


Now... you could try to get some "booster" ships involved. Ships like the Porpoise, the Orca, and the Rorqual can offer bonuses and can fit special "energy field probes" that increase your mining laser range, shorten cycle time, and reduce capacitor cost.
But this requires teamwork and organization.


pff, an assault frigate is better in every way to normal frigates, a T3D is better in every way to T2D or T1D.

it might be true of mining frigates, but then why are Tech 2 mining barges completely better than tech ones, and not just "specialized but not better"?

And I wouldn't be using an orca in any space where you want the tech 2 cloaking power of mining frigates.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-11-03 08:19:02 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:


pff, an assault frigate is better in every way to normal frigates, a T3D is better in every way to T2D or T1D.


Theyre not better in price or skill requirement.
Rorik Banesmith
EDI Logistics
#15 - 2016-11-03 10:20:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Rorik Banesmith
Well I'd imagine there are times when you'd want to operate a tech I barge instead of it's tech II variant when you stand a high chance of loosing the ship. When operating at the more unforgiving end of the risk vs. reward spectrum a tech I variant becomes a serious contender. Because, (assuming it can survive the mission), it will repay itself much faster than a tech II.

Tech II mining ships only become viable if their enhanced abilities are critical for mission success. Or if they survive for long enough for their increased yield to pay dividends... At least that is my understanding anyway.
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2016-11-03 12:46:36 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
I can't speak specifically to advanced mining (which is what you are talking about)...

But I can say that you are looking at things a little wrong.


While Tech 2 equipment offers straight upgrades over the Tech 1 versions (at the cost of higher CPU-Powergrid and capacitor needs)... Tech 2 ships do not follow this paradigm.


Tech 2 ships are specializations of Tech 1 ships. They are better in some areas, worse in other areas, and/or don't change in other areas.

In the case of Mining Frigates; The Venture is a good mining ship. However, the Tech 2 variants do nor offer that much of an increase in terms of mining yield. Instead, they offer the ability to cloak... which is a BIG DEAL because you can pick and choose when you are vulnerable to others and hide for as long as you want/need to.
This allows you to mine in more hostile places that a Mining Barge would be extremely vulnerable in.


No matter what, you will not reach the mining yields of Mining Barges with Mining Frigates.
But if you choose to fly Mining Barges... they will come with their own set of strengths and weaknesses that will require different fittings and tactics.


Now... you could try to get some "booster" ships involved. Ships like the Porpoise, the Orca, and the Rorqual can offer bonuses and can fit special "energy field probes" that increase your mining laser range, shorten cycle time, and reduce capacitor cost.
But this requires teamwork and organization.


pff, an assault frigate is better in every way to normal frigates, a T3D is better in every way to T2D or T1D.

it might be true of mining frigates, but then why are Tech 2 mining barges completely better than tech ones, and not just "specialized but not better"?

And I wouldn't be using an orca in any space where you want the tech 2 cloaking power of mining frigates.


Assault frigates are slower than T1.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!