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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Cloaky Camping] I-Hub Upgrade: covert-cyno blocker
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Commander Montgomery Scott
Todos Somos Uno
Destiny's Call
#1 - 2016-11-02 15:38:48 UTC
Hello,

Here is an idea regarding the great problems you have, if someone cloaky camps your sov.systems.

What about an I-hub upgrade in addition to the normal cynojammer. Which also prevents covert cyno and the BLOP s fleet who can get into your system within seconds.

Benefits are definitely safer rating, so the downside could be a reduced bounty payment ( 15-20% less bounty if the upgrade is active ) AND a long activation timer ( 5 hours to bring it online ).

There is still the possibility for the.camper.to tackle you and survive long enough, for your buddies who are safe log offed or traveling via gate into system to join you. Maybe you could tackle in your pimped.t3 cruiser to survive long enough instead by your throwaway bomber.

People.could.decide, if they want to rat with a large bounty reduction or with more risk if they get cloaky camper and maybe you could even add a.cooldown. e.g. 48 hours max "safe" rating before 36 hours recharge time.for.your upgrade.

I hope.for a.good discussion here.

Greetings
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-11-02 15:49:30 UTC
There is a sticky on this topic already. It is currently locked for cleanup but will be unlocked soon.

Reported for redundancy.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#3 - 2016-11-02 18:01:32 UTC
There's a surefire way to avoid being cloaky camped.

Don't make enemies.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Commander Montgomery Scott
Todos Somos Uno
Destiny's Call
#4 - 2016-11-02 18:02:00 UTC
Anything to say about thw Topic ?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#5 - 2016-11-02 18:19:05 UTC
Commander Montgomery Scott wrote:
Anything to say about thw Topic ?


Yup. Please put it in the right place after this gets locked.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2016-11-02 18:22:06 UTC
Please explain why bombers should be removed from nullsec.

Because that's what this does.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#7 - 2016-11-02 18:27:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Vic Jefferson
Everything that can be said about this has been said. So many pixels have been spilled over it, and this variant of the idea is neither novel or original.

Local is too strong of a mechanic. Free, absolutely accurate and instant intel is hilariously strong. The only way to beat free, instant, reliable intel is by cloaky camping. Nullsec is not supposed to be safe, it's supposed to be something you can make safe via dedicated team work and communication. I've played the game from both sides, extensively; it's more fun to actively defend against real opponents, and it is more fun to actively hunt against active opponents. Sadly local pretty much says no to both of these. The only way to catch someone without cloaky camping requires them to be willfully negligent of their own safety.

Without cloaky camping, there would be no way to counter local. If you could not light covert cynos, then cloaky camping would be mostly defanged, and thus local would just do 99.99% of the work in null. That would be horrible game play, null would be even safer than it is...and null is already way too safe, way too little reward.

I am among the top hunters in the game for blops in null. I can say one thing - 95% of the time, it is not that the hunter is good, it is that the ratter is bad. This makes for extremely one sided gameplay, which struggles to be gameplay at all. Try playing the game when just being 10 jumps out means all your targets are already 5 moves ahead of you. Yes, hardly a game at all. That's just the thing though - most null bears aren't interested in a game - they just want risk free isk.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Commander Montgomery Scott
Todos Somos Uno
Destiny's Call
#8 - 2016-11-02 18:32:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Montgomery Scott
Vic Jefferson wrote:
There's a surefire way to avoid being cloaky camped.

Don't make enemies.


be Part of the Blue donut?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2016-11-02 18:50:18 UTC
Commander Montgomery Scott wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
There's a surefire way to avoid being cloaky camped.

Don't make enemies.


be Part of the Blue donut?



There isn't one, and there never was.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#10 - 2016-11-02 19:17:46 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Commander Montgomery Scott wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
There's a surefire way to avoid being cloaky camped.

Don't make enemies.


be Part of the Blue donut?



There isn't one, and there never was.



If there had been a blue doughnut, it would have been a veritable symphony of blueberry and cream flavors, culminating in a taste that simply could not be beat!

If you want to rat/mine in peace, be part of a really low-key renter alliance in the way out areas of space that no one wants to roam to, and that has overlords which generally are not players/movers on the New Eden scene. Cloaky camping requires far more logistical gymnastics to be enforceable as you increase the number of jumps the target area is from an NPC staging station.

There are some dedicated folks out there that have an army of cloakers and do project far. I'd just rent somewhere else if one of these guys is plaguing you. There's no way to get the collective will to break them out of renters.

That being said if your main/ratting alt is in an alliance that is making enemies, and is staging relatively close to NPC stations, you can expect people to either get paid to cloaky camp your alliance, or do it because that is how they get their jollies from the game. Part of breaking a modern aegis-sov holding alliance entails lowering ADMs, and generally chasing off newbies - that this is poor design is another discussion, but it is the reality.

On the other hand, back in the day when I used to harass Goons in Dek, they made it a REAL pain to actually run my blops there - this made it FUN. Counter-drops, big gate camps, all sorts of bait. Goons actually had enough sense of community and togetherness that they had a vested interest and goony pride in keeping Deklein safe of my filthwizardry. Cloaky camping was just an open invitation to get 50 supers dropped on you. Hi JU-!

Which....goes back to the modern Aegis-Sov state. Most alliances don't give a toss about their players, and just recruit renters to buffer their ADMs with no regard to their fun or saftey - there's no shared group identity to motivate people to actually work together. Rather, it is all just renters who are there for them and theirs, rather than a cohesive group.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#11 - 2016-11-02 21:50:46 UTC
What I am curious about is why someone from the School of Applied Thought is concerned about Null Sec Sov?

But back to the simple point: you can't have everything in life: you cannot have perfect security and freedom, for instance.
You cannot have the ability to suppress a Cyno and Covert Cyno, for instance.
One or the other but not both.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#12 - 2016-11-02 22:01:41 UTC
Petrified wrote:
What I am curious about is why someone from the School of Applied Thought is concerned about Null Sec Sov?


Obvious forum alt? Doesn't want to feed whomever is cloaking his pocket, and let him or her that the tactic is working?

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#13 - 2016-11-03 12:09:22 UTC
I'v always been a huge fan of Black Ops drops. They keep things interesting.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Commander Montgomery Scott
Todos Somos Uno
Destiny's Call
#14 - 2016-11-03 12:37:20 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
I'v always been a huge fan of Black Ops drops. They keep things interesting.


I agree about the fascination of black ops. But only if you hunt different targets in different systems and regions. Camping a system for weeks is.just boring and bad for all sides.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#15 - 2016-11-03 14:12:05 UTC
Commander Montgomery Scott wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
I'v always been a huge fan of Black Ops drops. They keep things interesting.


I agree about the fascination of black ops. But only if you hunt different targets in different systems and regions. Camping a system for weeks is.just boring and bad for all sides.


The only time cloaky camping is bad is when the bads don't drop.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Merchant Rova
Tidal Lock
Vapor-Lock
#16 - 2016-11-03 14:15:15 UTC
Stop trying to make Eve more safe. We have a stickied megathread for this.

RIP Merchant Rova's cheekbones, YC118-YC119. Forever in our hearts.
Steffles
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-11-03 14:35:48 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Everything that can be said about this has been said. So many pixels have been spilled over it, and this variant of the idea is neither novel or original.

Local is too strong of a mechanic. Free, absolutely accurate and instant intel is hilariously strong. The only way to beat free, instant, reliable intel is by cloaky camping. Nullsec is not supposed to be safe, it's supposed to be something you can make safe via dedicated team work and communication. I've played the game from both sides, extensively; it's more fun to actively defend against real opponents, and it is more fun to actively hunt against active opponents. Sadly local pretty much says no to both of these. The only way to catch someone without cloaky camping requires them to be willfully negligent of their own safety.

Without cloaky camping, there would be no way to counter local. If you could not light covert cynos, then cloaky camping would be mostly defanged, and thus local would just do 99.99% of the work in null. That would be horrible game play, null would be even safer than it is...and null is already way too safe, way too little reward.

I am among the top hunters in the game for blops in null. I can say one thing - 95% of the time, it is not that the hunter is good, it is that the ratter is bad. This makes for extremely one sided gameplay, which struggles to be gameplay at all. Try playing the game when just being 10 jumps out means all your targets are already 5 moves ahead of you. Yes, hardly a game at all. That's just the thing though - most null bears aren't interested in a game - they just want risk free isk.

Yeah but the messed up thing is CCP has done absolutely nothing despite the feedback.

I own the corporation Cloakers, every character in it is a cloaky camper. I have spent the last 7 years or more cloaky afk camping and its by far the 2nd most overpowered tactic to use to cause people to die - the other of course being the related Opening the Portal of Doom on someone that is the instant pwn, able to fit on a rookie ship and costing you a couple of thousand isk cyno.

Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#18 - 2016-11-05 23:06:49 UTC
Steffles wrote:
costing you a couple of thousand isk cyno.


Wait a second... the last cyno I bought cost me 1,500,000,000... Where are you finding them for a couple of thousand ISK?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Steffles
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-11-06 01:28:35 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Steffles wrote:
costing you a couple of thousand isk cyno.


Wait a second... the last cyno I bought cost me 1,500,000,000... Where are you finding them for a couple of thousand ISK?

I'm talking about the isotopes

Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
Lugh Crow-Slave
#20 - 2016-11-06 02:00:12 UTC
"covert cyno bloacker"

so you want to counter the counter with what its meant to counter??

outside of HS you should never be safe from a cyno in k-space if you don't want to play with cyno mechanics go to wh

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble