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Free to play and plex prices
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Princess Adhara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2016-09-09 03:03:22 UTC
Subscription will basically stand for the monthly rental of a package of unlocks that basically encompass everything we have right now.

Everything new will be monetized. Nothing will be "free". Yes, they will call it "free" if you don't buy it even if you are subscribed.

New T3 frigate? Not included in the "omega package". But you can buy it piecemeal for 500 "CCP coins".

Everything will be sold for prices in multiples of 500 coins, but you can only buy coins in multiples of 499 coins.

Everything we ask from the devs will be monetized:
- Want the old camera back? Not included in the omega package, 1500 coins, please.
- Locator agents telling if someone is offline or online? 500 coins per week.
- Want to see local in your wormhole? 5000 coins per month.
- Want to block afk cloaking in your nullbear system? 50000 coins per month.

There's no limit to what can be monetized in F2P game. Even if you subscribe, don't be entitled to any of it.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#42 - 2016-09-09 03:17:16 UTC
Adhara, nothing makes me think they will restrict it to Alpha toons only for long term. And yes, I can also foresee that kind of posts coming. But I would imagine these things will come gradually into EVE, so maybe start with Alpha as specific target customers, then expand onto other things eventually. As long as CCP sticks to the principle that everything can be bought with ISK on market, and that ISK is made from in-game activities, there is room for integrating microtransactions.

I think we could have golden ammo eventually, with option to buy it in cash or in ISK.

You could say that EVE already accomodates for this. Anyone can buy PLEX and sell for ISK and everyhing can be bought with ISK.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
Ze Chelien
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2016-10-31 12:48:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ze Chelien
Princess Adhara wrote:


If they go the way of microtransactions, what makes you think they will restrict them to alpha clones? Other games with a freemium model don't.

Soon new skills/ships/structures will require EVERYONE (omega clones included) to buy an unlock via microtransaction. Then we'll see lots of forum threads like:

PLAYER 1: w00t? Greedy developer, I already pay my subscription!
PLAYER 2: Your subscription only pay for server maintenance, electric bill etc. You have to pay for NEW CONTENT like everyone else!
PLAYER 1: But I never had to! Expansions should be free for subscribers!
PLAYER 2: Don't be an entitled kid, you shouldn't expect things FOR FREE! Developers have to eat, too!
....


The only way CCP might even think of doing that is if they lose a lot of subscribers because they switch to F2P but even then they might just say if you want this expansion pay $4.99 or pay for subscription and get it "free" (free meaning you don't pay for the expansion out right but rather just the subscription cost.)

Also, if anything server costs doesn't cost $10/$15 a month per player but the alpha players won't be paying for their share of server cost so, the money the omegas are paying to contribute to their content and server cost have to be shared with the alpha clones. Therefore if CCP doesn't get a lot of subscribers from this you might be right because the subscription cost that you pay to play and have more content is being redirected to alpha clones instead of new content.

Also, I know this is an old topic but I wanna spark the conversation again :)
General Muller
Pecunia Infinita
#44 - 2016-11-01 10:04:11 UTC
Ze Chelien wrote:

The only way CCP might even think of doing that is if they lose a lot of subscribers because they switch to F2P but even then they might just say if you want this expansion pay $4.99 or pay for subscription and get it "free" (free meaning you don't pay for the expansion out right but rather just the subscription cost.)

Also, if anything server costs doesn't cost $10/$15 a month per player but the alpha players won't be paying for their share of server cost so, the money the omegas are paying to contribute to their content and server cost have to be shared with the alpha clones. Therefore if CCP doesn't get a lot of subscribers from this you might be right because the subscription cost that you pay to play and have more content is being redirected to alpha clones instead of new content.

Also, I know this is an old topic but I wanna spark the conversation again :)


Alpha players will be subscribing and buying plex to unrestrict their accounts.

The amount of Alpha players however won't "double" the game's player base.

Guild Wars 2 for instance had far less new players when the game went free-to-play compared to old buy players who have left the game and after the first financial quarterly report following the first expansion release only about 1 million out of total 10 million accounts upgraded.

Only a small portion of Alpha players who give EVE a try for the first time will stick around, because as a reasonably new player and fairly experienced gamer I can tell you the learning curve and level of entry due to time gated skill training is ****!

The greatest factor hampering CCP right now are veteran players who probably make out the majority of the player base and don't pay because of already having all the necessary skills leveled to make easy ISK to buy plex with.

EVE needs the veterans to keep the game active and the veterans need new players to feed them plex for game time.

As with Guild Wars 2, everyone who wanted to try the game and check it out have pretty much already done so, so finding new players is becoming a lot more tricky and the number of annual adolescent people aren't enough to rely on.

For CCP to keep their revenue stream healthy they need to adopt an approach to convince former players to return to the game. "Doing new things" is all part of that and riding the fascination and nostalgia wave has a lot to do with it, because these people either have to subscribe or buy plex.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#45 - 2016-11-02 14:36:59 UTC
I'm on the fence.

I don't way to pay sub anymore even though that restricts a lot ships and skills.

That said, if I choose to PVP those ships are mostly cruiser and below anyways.

Which leads me to the question, would buying PLEX be viable for F2P players?

If they let you buy ships bigger than a cruiser than I would say the need for selling PLEX for ISK would be there.

Even if I was in FW, I doubt I would go through 1 billion isk worth of ships per month.

It might be something every 6 months or so.

Still that's something for CCP.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
motie one
Secret Passage
#46 - 2016-11-04 22:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Overall, in the early stages the effect of alpha clones will be a wash.
Plex may go up or down slightly, some will pay to get some starting isk, and some will grind to become omega.

As time passes however the wash so to speak becomes less balanced and players may become more extreme in their behaviour.
For the first six months the purchase of choice will be skill injectors, probably funded fby buying plex and selling.
Beyond that, It is not possible to predict at this time.

However, CCP are reducing skin prices massively in ascention, so that will soak up a fair bit of that extra alpha isk, and encourage plex purchases to buy isk.

Alphas aside, the new structures will soak up a lot of alliance isk stockpiles and increase the sale pressure on Plex and reduce demand as a safe haven, the uncertainties of the new mechanics of player grades will also reduce the security of plex as a safe asset as well.

When Beta, Gamma, delta, epsilon clone grades arrive, plex may appear to be as desireable a safe haven as cowrie shells, the economy will be turned into a completely different mechanic. The old "sure thing" will not be and a great diversification of stored wealth will occur.

So TLDR, The free lunch is no longer a sure thing, hedge your risk.
Cista2
EVE Museum
#47 - 2016-11-25 07:20:29 UTC
Yes yes, so far PLEX have reach a six-month low. I pity those who bought heavily into PLEX at 1200 based on advise such as given in this thread :)
Time for some comments?

My channel: "Signatures" -
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#48 - 2016-11-25 08:38:50 UTC
Cista2 wrote:
Yes yes, so far PLEX have reach a six-month low. I pity those who bought heavily into PLEX at 1200 based on advise such as given in this thread :)
Time for some comments?


I did not bought a single PLEX over 1 b (yet ;) ) but it seems to me, that current PLEX price drop related to new toys ppl buy right now. All those Raitaru, excavator drones etc... As soon, as new toys will not be that new any more, price will get back to 1,2 b, IMHO.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
Ore No More
#49 - 2016-11-25 22:20:07 UTC  |  Edited by: u3pog
I expected a Black Friday at some point and here we go. PLEX is going down the roller coaster. I wonder how long will that ride be...
Clair Bear
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2016-11-27 08:10:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Clair Bear
Plex drop so far looks 100% related to the Black Friday sale. And, both the sale and the drop appear over.

The training time for new alphas is brutal. It's going to take many, many days for them to do anything useful. They're not going to stick around OR buy skins for their crappy starter ships. OTOH, the same amount of time means "free" SP farmer accounts won't be showing up for 5 more months.

So far I've seen a ton of bittervets (like me) returning to ship spin and chat. A few are PLEXing up, others like me are perfectly content to be alphas (even if the 100M or so more a day I spend on bonus transaction taxes means not plexing is a lose).

There's little demand for new players to buy skill injectors for hogtied alpha clones, and absolutely nothing to spend microtransaction (if you can call $20 a microtransaction) money on. Newbies don't know about meta4 or faction gear, and earning miserable level1 mission money can't see the ROI of spending big.

OTOH, plenty of old crappy (e.g, long mothballed industry alts with whatever horror Material Efficiency V turned into) characters can now be logged on for free and melted down into valuable skill injectors. I'm shocked skill injectors aren't plummeting while extractors and PLEX aren't rocketing up; but give it another month.

I concur with a price target of over 2 billion "long term", subject to other changes by CPP of course.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#51 - 2016-11-27 21:14:08 UTC
Princess Adhara wrote:
Subscription will basically stand for the monthly rental of a package of unlocks that basically encompass everything we have right now.

Everything new will be monetized. Nothing will be "free". Yes, they will call it "free" if you don't buy it even if you are subscribed.

New T3 frigate? Not included in the "omega package". But you can buy it piecemeal for 500 "CCP coins".

Everything will be sold for prices in multiples of 500 coins, but you can only buy coins in multiples of 499 coins.

Everything we ask from the devs will be monetized:
- Want the old camera back? Not included in the omega package, 1500 coins, please.
- Locator agents telling if someone is offline or online? 500 coins per week.
- Want to see local in your wormhole? 5000 coins per month.
- Want to block afk cloaking in your nullbear system? 50000 coins per month.

There's no limit to what can be monetized in F2P game. Even if you subscribe, don't be entitled to any of it.



If EVE goes to that level of paid cheating, I will liquidate all of my assets, sell my characters, and give the ISK to the New Order.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#52 - 2016-11-28 04:39:10 UTC
Clair Bear wrote:
I'm shocked skill injectors aren't plummeting

Their traded volume is up and it's mostly going to sells, so it would appear they are in demand for someone.

I personally sold off 200B worth of injectors during the market peak ~28 days ago and they flew out of the door then too.

Clair Bear wrote:
PLEX aren't rocketing up; but give it another month.

I'm expecting it to saunter downwards during the next couple of months, but it really does depend so much on CCP's behaviour that I wouldn't make any strong bet on it. I sold off my stockpile of ~500 PLEX at 1.2B at the same time as I dropped my injectors, now I've picked up another 100 PLEX at the recent minimum (~980m) and I'm holding off on buying more on the chance that I'm right, CCP performs as I expect and the PLEX price slumps down to ~900m over the winter.

Clair Bear wrote:
I concur with a price target of over 2 billion "long term", subject to other changes by CPP of course.

Long term maybe, but I'm expecting the usual wave before that and no 2B pricetag until summer, maybe not even this summer.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#53 - 2016-12-02 02:29:56 UTC
What Bad Bobby said is pretty much what I have been thinking and been saying here too regarding PLEX prices. I also did pick up a lot of PLEX when they crashed earlier this year after Citadel patch (many bought at even below 900m mark at that point outside of Jita), and I sold them at around 1.1b mark later, and then they crashed again when CCP did crazy good sale on PLEX with discount PLUS extra PLEX (I think it was early summer or just before that). Then PLEX crashed again and went up to again, only to drop a bit again later, etc.

Through these cycles and 'new' PLEX prices we have been seeing, and with the changes CCP have been talking about, I imagined PLEX will drop to around 900m mark again over the winter. They could reach 2b 'long term', but anything could double its value over 'long term' depending on your definition of 'long term' and such.

PLEX is a bit different though, and when you look at the market history it does get affected very heavily by CCP's PLEX sales/discounts/etc. It's not purely player driven prices based on 'in-game factors', because CCP doing discounts on them have big impact on their prices, which is an out of game factor and totally out of player control.

I could have held on to the cheap PLEXes I bought earlier in the year, and maybe they hit 2b mark some day, but I just didn't feel that it was worth it to keep too much ISK tied up to PLEX for such long term. Theoretically, if you make 20% profit on 100b principle every month, you only need 5 months to 'double' your 100b and reach 200b mark (well very simplistically speaking). PLEX ain't gonna 'double' its value in 5 months time. If I have to keep them for 1 year+ I think there are other things I can flip which will generate more ISK than PLEX doubling.

But of course, if you already have many other things going on, and if you can get them at below 1b mark or even at around 900m, it's quite alright to keep some quantity as a long term thing. But I would definitely not put majority of my ISK into PLEX and hold for long term. Riding the cycles of PLEX with majority of your ISK is a different story though, as that's not the same as 'holding' them with majority of your ISK.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
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