Test Server Feedback

let me add to your headache: CCP intends the as yet unreleased drilling platform structures to actually be the repreocessing bonused ones, so by design you would have to move the material from a drilling platform to your engineering complex anyhow

I understand CCP not wanting Rorquals on the Medium Citadels. But not allowing them on the Large is just derpy, so is not allowing capitals to dock in a capital shipyard... I get not wanting to have a 6bn isk capital hideout thats "easy" to deploy. But this is a non-issue. With a 24hr anchoring timer that is seen anywhere in space the idea of using one for forward basing is very costly and risky to lost 6bn of tinfoil if attacked.

Rorquals should absolutely be allowed to dock in Large Citadels, its frankly nuts if they are not able to. Let I knew you were not able to use fleet hangers while tethered.


And fix L/LX Repro Rig prices ffs.

So wheres the dislike button?
Im sorry but you guys really are making this stuff ********, youre forcing us to use these things but yet only the biggest ones let rorquals dock and is just f**king assinine that you can build supercapitals/capitals in them but they cant dock? well how the f**k can you build them in it if they cant dock in it? Im sorry but a one way ticket is just super ********, structures are getting worse and worse the more of them you add and add to them, you obviously arent really listening to players, at least not the majority.

Yeah, I think the Rorqual should be able to dock in the Large. Anything else penalises smaller corps who might want to put a Rorqual at risk but can't afford an XL.

Other than that, the docking restrictions for capitals are just plain common sense. Otherwise these structures would be used as cheaper mid points than Fortizars.

Masterplan, with respect I would like to know the thought process that went into these decisions because I think they are based on some false assumptions.

1. Nobody in 0.0 does, or will use an Orca, regardless of the upgrades I cannot even offload a single Rorqual's ore bay into one to move it to a Raitaru or Azbel making it worthless as it will not keep up with the Rorquals. This is further exagerated by the fact the 'Ore Hold' is not fleet-sharable which means i need to seperate my ore into 10 piles and move them one at a time to the fleet hanger (30km3) and wait for the hauler to take before moving another pile. Nobody in their right mind would do this. If you have a mining fleet with 3-4 Rorquals which would not be uncommon you would need at least 5 if not 8 Orcas to keep up with the ore output. Its just not tenable, and neither is bringing a freighter out.

2. An Azbel is a capital shipyard and will want to be fed millions of m3 of minerals, orcas cant handle that. As I said in my previous post this is how you would have to get minerals there with the system as it is.
a) Rorqual mine ore in a site or belt
b) Ore has to be brought to a Fortizar (20bn) unless you are being super-risky and bringing a freighter to the site.
c) Ore has to be hauled to an Astrahus (5bn rigged) via freighter because L/XL T2 Rigs are broken pricewise (20bn each! for 2%)
d) Ore now has to be hauled AGAIN via freighter to an Azbel (10bn rigged) to make the capital ship.

You are replacing a single pos costing 2bn (generous) with 3 citadels totalling 35bn ISK to do the same job (and more than tripling fuel costs). You are also making people use freighters which is highly unsafe, AND on top of that they have to haul the ore to at least 2 not 3 different structures to make this happen. This is not only clicky clicky but 1700% cost increase to do the same thing you can do now. CCPlease.

3. An Azbel will cost when fit roughly 10bn ISK not allowing Rorquals to dock in it is lazy and stupid and does nothing but add extra "clicky clicky" to the game without any game benefit or player enjoyment. My prediction is Azbel's will basically be non-existant, only alliance will build Sotiyos and all capital/significant production will happen in single citadels under each alliance control further making corporations reliant on their alliance which is exactly the OPPOSITE direction CCP has been taking with Citadels to this point.

4. I have not seen any logic behind the Rorqual Docking setup, nor L/XL repro rig pricing (or rig slots in Eng Complxes being small in ratio to the number of service modules they will likely use). This bears some explanation of thought process.

The docking restriction on the Sotiyo makes a lot of sense; it's substantially cheaper than the Keepstar and the ability to dock supercaps is one of the defining features for that structure. Allowing this ability on the Sotiyo would really undermine the incentive to make Keepstars.

However the same can't be said about the Azbel / Fortizar. Once fittings & services are factored in, the Azbel is a bit over half the cost of its Citadel counterpart while being significantly more vulnerable. Even when rigged purely for combat, an Azbel is barely comparable to an Astrahus in terms of defensive power with a large vulnerability window. These things will die when placed on the front lines.
Unlike supers, the ability to dock with capital ships is pretty ubiquitous in EVE already and even when outposts go away we'll still have NPC stations to use them with. Realistically I think the worry of people using Azbels as a budget Fortizar to base capital ships from is unfounded, and easily balanced by the much higher vulnerability factors.

Let's give the Azbel exactly the same docking restrictions as the Sotiyo and be done with it. It reduces the barrier of entry for smaller groups to use their Rorquals without some special casing, while leaving the door open for them to upgrade with a Fortizar later if they wish.

Edit: if you really want to differentiate between Azbels and Fortizars, remove the Market service (and/or PDS module) from the former in exchange for less restrictive docking

Wait, are you saying there is some sort of intent to take risks in a pvp game?

That blows my mind!

Why can't we all be friends, make a campfire and sing a song and do a joined mining op together? Hugs for everyone

Also they are adding dropbox for structures so ships can drop stuff from outside to inside, which would solve your whole rorqual cant dock situation

Basically you have your Fortizar which will allow everything except suppers to dock where you park your Rorqual when not in use.
You build and refine at your Azbel to produce everything but capitals and reprocess.

That dropbox needs to arrive very soon. Because installing at reprocessing service on the Fortizar just to compress to move it then to the Asbel is plain silly.

But in reality, it would be better if you allowed the Rorqual to dock at the Azbel considering it's importance to mining support.

Even better would be if you kept the docking restrictions consistent between all the Structure classes. Remembering whether you can dock Ship X at structure A but not at structure B is inconsistent. Please: keep the docking restrictions based on the size of the Structure consistent across all classes.

Considering the Ligature and Zeugma data analyser's had their material requirements adjusted down dramatically decreasing the cost and rarity of those Analyzers, it would not be terribly off for CCP to do to the rigs what they did to the analyzers (including returning the excess materials for the units in storage).

I don't use T2 rigs precisely because the cost far outweighs the benefit provided. (ie: volume of reprocessed materials won't see a return on the cost for years - which is a looong time in video games).


But the Rig issue is not central to this thread despite lending to the problem posed: docking inconsistencies between the same structure size.