EVE New Citizens Q&A

Ok, maybe you just have poor communication skills. This is from the OP " Both of us never died even once, but we saw over 100 people who did and we have no idea why. One time while in a 0.9 place, 11 red people...(snip) " So grammatically, the "11 red people" is an example of the 100 people. So IF this is a valid example then I know exactly why the 100 died. Because the people in your example died from concord. If my answer is wrong, it can only be because your example is inaccurate. I don't have to specify 100 specific examples if the you do not specify 100 specific examples. In other words, an answer is given with the same degree of error as the question. If you want specifics, then you have to give specifics.

If you want to know why people die in a video, then you need to provide a link to the video.

#1 is not a problem, it's a strength. I'm almost three years into the game and have done a lot but there are still aspects to it I've never experienced. EVE doesn't really ever get old like you seem to be experiencing with LoL, unless you deliberately put yourself in a rut. And I personally like the lack of tutorials and guides, as it lets me experience the rush of discovery. Encountering the same ol' known thing over and over gets boring fast.

#2 I guess I got lucky by falling in to a group of folks who make it a point to welcome in and teach new players. Are you trying to go it alone? I suggest joining an established newbro alliance to start - then you'll have some great experience and enthusiasm to draw upon.

#3 Nothing fun to do? There's tons of fun to be had. PvP. War. Market manipulation. Propaganda creation. Surprise attacks. Home defense. Escaping surprise attacks. Watch a super take a gate and blap a frig. Cloak up a few thousand klicks from a 1000-person battle and watch the explosions, then ninja salvage valuable modules. What have you tried so far that you didn't have fun with?

Alright... I will see what can be salvaged from this...

*chugs some whine*


So... a few things...

Yes. The game is complex. So complex that not even veterans like myself (I have been playing since 2009) know everything. And even when you think you know everything about a certain subject, have specialized in every aspect of it... someone will come along and "school you" in such a way that you feel like a nubbin all over again.
Or you will make a colossal mistake and die in a fire because you forgot one tiny detail.

That is the challenge.
That is the point.
That is what gets you engaged with other players (for better or worse).

It is the "rat race" of EVE!!



You tried to talk with players that earned so much ire from other players that they have a monetary sum placed on their heads for their destruction... and you are surprised that you were given the proverbial finger?

That is like a couple of fresh-faced 20-somethings asking the biggest dickheads at the roughest biker bar how to succeed in a new town.
A town where everyone just so happens to be armed with anti-matter and nuclear warheads.


Go back to square one. Start small.
Understand that "experiential learning" (learning by doing, failing, doing again, rinse and repeat) and "social learning" (being tutored and invested in by others) is rewarded FAR more than doing tons of personal research before "taking a step forward."

This is why many veterans recommend that newbies join up with established corporations** that have been around for awhile.


**NOTE: when I say "established corporation" I mean a corp that has been around for more than 6+ months.
Corporations are a dime a dozen in EVE and most are burned or consumed by other corporations. So you want to be with people who know how to defend themselves and survive in the hostile environment that is EVE.



It sounds like your Mammoth encountered an age old tactic of EVE: "Suicide Ganking"

Basically... no where in EVE is "safe" by the contemporary standards of other MMOs.

You can be blown up by others players in "High Security" space if...
- another corporation/alliance pays a fee to the NPCs for the privilege to shoot you.
- players are willing to sacrifice their ships to the NPC police (the police will kill them anywhere between 5 to 15 seconds after they attack you... the NPCs will not make any attempt to save your ship).

Understand... "High Security" does not mean "total security." It never has. It never will.
It means "high safety relative to other areas of the game."

And you can be shot at with relative impunity in other areas of the game.


As for corporations...

"How to Make a Successful Corp in EVE"
(yes... it is parody... but there are kernels of truth in it)

People say you will be war decced probably because you are too new. You have not established yourself. You have no record. You have proven nothing.
If you successfully blow up a few ships and/or survive a few months... that may change.
These things take time.
No instant "HAY!! Join us giaz and lets go raiding! La dee da dee da...!"


Attitude also plays a part in it as well. It is pretty easy to identify people who are too naive and/or may fall apart when faced with a situation that has gone "sideways" (as things in EVE often do).

People who also "expect" results (see: entitlement) are a universally favored target among the playerbase. The tears of such players are so, very savory... mmmmmphgffff... *shudders*


Again... we recommend that newbies attach themselves to established veterans.
I would go further and say to attach yourself to a PvP veteran.

Show some spunk and decorum. They love that! They may even reward you for your ballsiness!

Don't bother shah, she doesn't want to hear it.

@ShahFluffers: (p.s: the quote did not appear, it will not appear for some reason)

"not even veterans like myself (I have been playing since 2009) know everything": this proves #1 more than me typing: The game is impossible to understand, and thus more un-enjoyable.

"You tried to talk with players that earned so much ire from other players that they have a monetary sum placed on their heads for their destruction"

I said bounty hunters.

"This is why many veterans recommend that newbies join up with established corporations** that have been around for awhile." tried this multiple times, they all kicked us for unknown reasons - it is assumed that we were thought as a spy, but fairly certain not what spy means in english - to this day we are baffled on what thehy meant as a spy and why they would kick a spy or what a spy could even do lol.

"Basically... no where in EVE is "safe"", in other words the game is always risky, thus more un-enjoyable.

"Show some spunk and decorum. They love that! They may even reward you for your ballsiness!" I told several people they could trust me and that I would send them my 1.2bil wallet and they could send it back to me so we could trust each other and I was usually blocked immediately after that. We both tried many different tactics in an attempt to stay in a corporation but we never succeeded. Usually the harder we tried, the more we were called spies - we were denied applications sometimes after saying we would send the person our wallet.

Maybe we were verrrrry unlucky in our ~40 day test across these accounts, but that is improbable.

What is your gain from this? What are you hoping out of this discussion? Sounds like you've made up your mind already. I don't think discouraging players is helpful no matter what you believe.

I didn't make it past my first trial but I came back.

for you. The problem here is you don't like bananas so you claim bananas are bad fruit. It is not a case of the fruit being bad, it is a case of you not having a taste for the fruit.




You said you did a month of research. Did you really? This is exactly the kind of thing that a MONTH or research should have covered. You said you have a large group of people and you split over several corps. OF COURSE you were all considered spies. Spy means simply that you were in a corp for the benefit of another corp, or have alts in other corps. Spies cannot only give intel to hostile corps/alliances and steal assets, they can literally break alliances when they get higher privileges. Eve is a game of risks. As long as a spy steals within game mechanics, that is not against the EULA and the devs will not reim the theft. Players are responsible for their own goods. You all should have stuck together and joined the same corp, not a bunch of different corps, which were likely at war, or potential enemies.



Again, this is a matter of personal taste, and it shouldn't surprise someone who spent a month researching the game.



/headdesk. Many scams are based on the this kind of transaction. So yea, they probably blocked you as a reflex. Trust is not something you build in eve by artificial means. You have to earn it, slowly over time. You're actually lucky they didn't take your isk first, then block you.

I think a large part of the problem is that your group was just too big to be absorbed the traditional way. But the tactics you used to to improve relations, which may work in other MMOs, actually have exactly the opposite effect here.

Not understanding everything is a good thing in my book. It means I can find a niche I am good at and, if I can lure other players into my area of expertise, I will have the advantage over others.

The same is true for other players if I wander into their particular specialty.


Getting there takes time. You are not going to "get it" overnight. No one does. And the point of the game is that you are not supposed to... that way you have to rely on other players, each with their own specialties.


It took me well over a year (and hundreds of losses and hundreds more kills) before I became proficient enough in PvP to be considered "deadly" to other players.
And I still know diddly squat about wormholes, SOV mechanics, or advanced industry... forcing me to rely on others to assist me in those areas.



There is no such thing as a "bounty hunter" in EVE. Not in any official sense anyways.

A bounty can be collected by any player in the game. Simply grab your guns and shoot.



Then take a step back and consider for a second what you may be doing wrong.

Are you refusing to do certain things asked of you?
Are you saying certain things that rub people the wrong way?
Are you making statements rather than asking questions?
Are you asking "sensitive" questions about the corporation and its structure?

If yes to any of the above, you may want to modify your behavior a bit.

Corporations are fickle.
Remember... you are trying to join their "cool kids club." The onus is on you to prove that you are worth their time. Do what they ask (but not to the point where they ask you fork over your stuff... you can tell them to "get stuffed" at that point).


To each their own.

But the lack of safety anywhere in the game is the reason I, and most of my corporation, joined this game. We LIKE the riskiness of simply flying about. It is FUN to us.




In which case... I would suggest going out and simply "doing stuff."

Yes... you will all probably die in fire and fail miserably... but you will be gaining valuable experience and creating a reputation for yourself and your friends.

And along your travels you will meet people. Get to know them. Chat with them. Stay in contact. Do stuff with them. EARN their trust.

In EVE, simply saying you can be trusted is not enough. You have to SHOW, through your actions and history, that your big white van really does have candy in it and not chloroform and some leather straps.

"I can find a niche I am good at "

you did say this earlier: "And even when you think you know everything about a certain subject, have specialized in every aspect of it... someone will come along and "school you" in such a way that you feel like a nubbin all over again."


Responding to these questions:
Are you refusing to do certain things asked of you? I was asked several odd things, like to meet people in 0.0 areas or stations with no other people at it, sometimes I would wait for hours then be kicked. There was nothing asked of us that we did not do.

Are you saying certain things that rub people the wrong way? There were several people that said there was something wrong with me and that I was a spy but when asked why they said things like "its just a feeling" or "the way you ask questions"

Are you making statements rather than asking questions? Ask Mike how many questions I asked, on average I would say in rookie chat I would ask 10 legitimate noob questions, in the first 5 days of playing.

Are you asking "sensitive" questions about the corporation and its structure? Neither of us asked or queried anything about how the corporation ran or why it made certain decisions (other than why it kicked us), we specifically avoided this because we wanted to naturally learn about how it operated.

"the lack of safety anywhere in the game is the reason I, and most of my corporation, joined this game" I understand your viewpoint and the fact there is insurance, police etc, etc, but really fun games have at least one "safe" area where 99.9% chance you will be safe, only pirate (RL pirates) style of people like risk, most people are not pirate-ish that I know in my culture...

You are confused if you think eve is dying. The metrics that used to work to monitor Eve health (concurrent logins) is no longer effective. Since the introduction of dual account training, skill queues greater than 24 hours, skill transfers, and some other smaller details there is no longer a general need to have multiple accounts subscribed and logged in. In fact, I consolidated my accounts a while back because there was no longer a need. Eve is more profitable now than it ever was, and more profitable means not dying.

Eve is constantly growing. As Ralph said earlier, next month a much anticipated HUGE fix to the NPE will be implemented. Hopefully it will make the transition from other MMOs with their "you are special, please save the world" themepark to the EVE "you are not special, here's a ship, try not to die" sandbox easier. But there is no way to make it _easy_ for people who expect a themepark experience.

That is simply not what Eve is about. Eve is about risk, because the greater the risk, the greater the sense of accomplishment. The number one rule of eve is don't fly what you can't afford to lose. It is that sense of impending loss that makes the adrenaline truly kick in when one is in danger. It simply doesn't compare to any other game where one simply respawns in an inconvenient location.

Also, there are the odd 98% safe spots in EVE. The starter systems are declared safe zones for newbies, and killing, scamming, or otherwise harming a new player's experience is not ok, in those systems only. This is the only place where scams, baiting, and other behavior are reportable offenses.
https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing