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Or maybe you could not be so deliberately obtuse....

At large I'm with you Teckos.

Now to the nitpicking details:
"A game of chance is a game whose outcome is strongly influenced by some randomizing device,..."

Can one or a group of humans be called a randomizing device? I would say no, but what is a device? Let's see what Wikipedia has to say to this:

"A device is usually a constructed tool,..."

In the following text people are not mentioned. If you look for "randomizing device" then the result is even clearer, that this term does not include humans.

-> So as long as the winner is selected by humans, maybe even by the participants themself without using dices, numbered balls, randomizing software etc. then it's not a game of chance.

"...and upon which contestants may choose to wager money or anything of monetary value."

-> If there are no wagers, it's not a game of chance.

Conclusion:
1. A x-up in chat for participating on a give away is not a game of chance and therefore not gambling if the participants don't have to pay a wager.
2. Even if a wager or fee is needed to participate, as long as the "drawing" is done by a human, it's still not a game of chance if there is no randomizing device involved.



This soo much!

Well we are getting a bit into the weeds, but maybe that is good IF CCP devs and even GMs are reading this (hahahahahaha who am I kidding?!?!)....


I would say that not, humans cannot be the randomizing device because then it is more a game of skill. For example, suppose we set up a contest where we use the in game dual mechanic and the person with the most victories wins some item. While we could state the outcomes in terms of subjective probabilities, those probabilities will be heavily influenced by the player skill levels. That is we'd have probabilities of the nature like,

P[V(i) | Skill Level(i),Skill Level(~i)]

That is, the probability of victory for player i is determined by the skill level of player i (read the ~ as "not" as in "not player i).

So while we could say, "Ah ha! Look, probabilities! Thus a game of chance." That, IMO, would be wrong. A game of chance usually depends on a randomizing device such as a (pseudo) random number generator of some sort. Now people can gamble on something like is which is what we see with gambling on various sporting events. But so long as there are no such side bets taking place, IMO, it is not a game of chance nor is it gambling and it should be fine with regard to the changes to the EULA.

Even a game of chance that is completely in game--i.e. there is nothing outside the game should also be fine, by my reading of the EULA. The way I read it is CCP is the first party. Players are the second party (parties) is 2 or more second parties start interacting they are still second parties from CCP perspective.

But again...it would be awesome if CCP confirmed this and was explicit instead of leaving everyone to wonder and risk possible bans. This is really a topic that should be entail clear and plain English responses from CCP even if one of their legal team has to sit down and hold CCP Falcon's or some other Dev's hand while doing this. Frankly, CCP's utter silence on this is baffling to me. I work in a highly regulated industry and our lawyers are very involved in EVERYTHING we do. They get right down in the weeds not just with managers in various departments, but with the analysts as well. Then again our revenues make CCP's look like chump change....so maybe it is that.

Yes it is possible. You can use the capsuleers themselves as randomizing factor for example.

If the next capsuleer who jumps through a gate is male or female, what's his security status, what kind of ship he's in, what race he is, the third letter in his name, or a combination of all those things.

There are other, much better ways too, but I'll leave that to everyone's own imagination.

No, why should it?

Do you think scams are games of chance? Who is the third party? Seriously, why do people keep asking this? If you got burnt by a scam learn from your mistake and move on.

Not unless they are doing so via a third party.

No clarification is the baffling part. No game of chance involving a third party, to me, is at least clear. That would rule out classic tools like Chribba's dice or the third number on UK lotto for next week or any other out of game RNG tools.

But I did receive GM confirmation that I cannot set up a website and run ISK funded pvp campaigns and competitions hsing kill records pulled from API (so all real in game records and no third party RNG involved).

If the same logic is applied (which is a funny thing because CCP can choose to apply their 'logic' where/when they want - they are under no 'obligation' to apply same policy to all) then in-house/in-game prize reward based on existing third party killboard is also not approved. Neither can you in game 'pay outs' based on third party tools such as using discord/TS to track fleet participations or miner payout calculations tools or whatever.

This is really broad application and CCP reserves right to ban/confiscate any in game asset transferred/rewarded based on a third party pay out system, even if that third party system does NOT involve game of chance.

Like I said, people know I was a heavy gambler at IWI and raged about ban on ISK gambling. But I accepted that and moved on. But CCP not allowing hse of third party tools for in game pay out decision maker has huge implicaitons and puts people on the risk of getting banned/wallet zeroed even if no 'gambling' is involved.

This certainly needs clarification.

Now I get the feeling CCP is being deliberately unclear so they can just shut stuff down and confiscate in game stuff on a whim in the first sign of trouble. :p 'we never said such and such is ok' kinda thing.

It's pretty bad though as per EULA and TOS CCP can just take whatever you have in game as everything on the server belongs to them lol (players don't 'own' anything if I understand correctly, CCP just needs to grant access to the server for paid subscribers and their responsibilities end there)

There can/probably will be some legal trouble at some point though. A different example, but the German authorities are now probinh into whether Facebook is dealing/had dealt sufficiently with 'hate messages' on their site. Facebook does look into stuff that get reported and sometimes take actions but hate speech and allowing that to happen on your online platform is a serious crime in Germany, more so than what Facebook understood it to be.

When you have a global operation online there is always legal risk that something that seemed ok in one place is suddenly criminal in a particular country. Whether it be gambling or any other stuff that CCP has not clearly dealt with can always backfire. Can happen to any company where people can access their service from all over the world.

EDIT; Just for record, despite what happened with IWI, I do wish that EVE continues and thrive. But whether being vague on issues is a smart thing or will later be penalised as negligence remains to be seen :p

What does this mean exactly ?
I could go to coffee shop and try to play eve online on my notebook, but because their wi-fi is free and open, someone 150 meters away could also try to play eve online with alpha character via their wi-fi (same ip).

Does this mean i will not be able to connect via the same ip or is this locked onto device (as per device) ?

REQUIREMENTS TO PLAY
To play EVE, you must: (i) download a copy of the Software; (ii) establish a valid account within the Game (an "Account"); (iii) obtain and maintain your own Internet access (Internet access is required to play EVE; CCP is not responsible for your access to the Internet); and (iv) comply with the EULA.

Nice change CCP, just in time