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[Ascension] Phenomena Generators

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Author
dantes inferno
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#41 - 2016-10-26 21:11:23 UTC
Another 8k m3 mod !

Have you considered giving more cargo bay to supers and titans ? With all the new cap mods you added recently the cargohold starts to be tight !
Ali Virgo
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#42 - 2016-10-26 21:12:48 UTC
may be ccp wants us to stop playing eve
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#43 - 2016-10-26 21:59:54 UTC
While I'm not a Titan owner as of yet, I am one of those people you described as enjoying the tactics and fleet combat.

It might be worth looking into having two Phenomena Gens for each faction, one thats more based on giving good bonuses and one thats more about the harmful bonuses. They could do the same things but at different scales or do different things. Stacking would be the issue if they did the same things as you would have to decided how they overwrite each other, but it would open more doors and make these even more potent when used properly.

I am aware that this and these in general make titans even more powerful than they already are in the current meta. It would be wise to look at spreading out Titan functionality a bit to other ships, with some penalty of course.
RedHand
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#44 - 2016-10-26 23:20:08 UTC
Holy ****, I swear it's actually impossible for EVE players to like an upcoming change. Mack, stfu. If you want a decent answer maybe you should consider writing a well-worded and perhaps slightly less aggressive post.

As for the actual topic... I like the concept of the changes. It's been a while since I owned or flew a titan so I'm not so sure of how it'll affect the 'current meta' but I think the core concept, the mechanic itself, is good. Few things:

- Perhaps the fuel usage is going overboard? Titans have to fit a shitload of mods in the cargo to swap between different guns, different doomsdays, different fits, etc. You're eating a huge chunk more having to fit that much fuel.

- I like the idea of negative and positive debuffs (i.e. you're fighting a Nightmare fleet in something that deals EM damage, you can basically create a resist hole to shoot into) but I'm not sure about the last effect of each module. There are a hell of a lot of potential options for effects, plenty more I'd like to see, like possibly tracking bonuses, range bonuses... I don't agree with the fourth minnie bonus however, why should there be no option for projectiles/missiles? Maybe make each one have a debuff to their 'primary enemy' while buffing their own weapon systems (e.g, minmatar reduces laser optimal by 25% and increases projectile falloff by 20%, or something)

- Locking it to a specific titan is maybe not as good as enticing someone to fit the right one to their titan? So you can fit any of them to a Levi, for example, but the bonus is significantly more worthwhile if you fit the Caldari one.

- The gallente and caldari phenomena currently get significantly better bonuses than the other two. Unless you've specifically designed your fleet to be fast and hard to hit, there's no use for the Minmatar one, and the Amarr one is basically a joke. The Gallente and Caldari will be the primary choices for almost everyone because why would you take anything else over a big shield/armour amount buff?

I think there are a few factors that need to be taken into consideration, and realistically the actual bonuses need to be changed before they get implemented to be reasonable. However, as I said I do really like the concept itself.

The rest of you salty shitlords need to go find something better to do than whinge without any reasoning. Just saying 'Waaah I don't like it!' doesn't do you any favours and doesn't add to the discussion.
The Clockyard
The Clockyard Industrial Corporation
#45 - 2016-10-27 00:04:10 UTC
If you want to nerf titans, just do it. Dont take a roundabout way that is this clumsy. One of the worst ideas I've heard of since Fozzie Sov.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#46 - 2016-10-27 00:40:51 UTC
I'm not really opposed to these changes, but I guess I don't really see the point in adding these modules. At least as it is currently planned. The Titan has to be on grid to use these modules. The effect goes away if there is a session change. So, unless you have a large enough Supercapital fleet that you can afford to put Titans on grid to support subcapital fleets, you won't ever get the benefit of this module.

And if you have that many Supercapitals, why do you care about buffing and debuffing the subcapitals? You've already guaranteed that you cannot lose the fight. All this module does is basically give someone who has already won the fight another way to drag their metaphorical nuts across the loser's face. I guess that's the point?

So, for anyone without Supercapital superiority, the bonus has to be really extreme to put a Titan on grid, but these bonuses seem kind of underwhelming in a typical fight. And if you buff the effect more, then you make it even more oppressive if one side can use Titans with impunity and the other side cannot. In that case, you just make it even more overwhelming in a situation where one side has already lost.

Additionally, as a Titan owner, I'm getting really sick of adding new modules to the refit pack, on the off chance that I ever get to use the damn thing for anything other than bridging. Is it possible that you could combine some of the hardpoints on the Titan to allow us to be combat fit and use more than one of these snazzy new modules at a time? Not everyone has so many Titans available that they can specialize them within a given fleet.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#47 - 2016-10-27 00:45:05 UTC
dantes inferno wrote:
Another 8k m3 mod !

Have you considered giving more cargo bay to supers and titans ? With all the new cap mods you added recently the cargohold starts to be tight !


Apparently making fitting decisions for your Titan also includes deciding how many large, expensive modules you have to cram into the ship to be prepared for multiple contingencies.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Cyrus Doul
kotitekoinen sissijuusto
#48 - 2016-10-27 00:59:21 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
These modules are on SISI now and available for testing. We welcome your feedback. Thanks!


Since remirroring would be a giant pain, could you seed / redeem titans and skill injectors please? some of us are in that fun window where we have the stuff on TQ, but are a month or so behind on getting it on SISI. Makes it hard to theorycraft and test when you don't have the ship :)
Boson Dubstep
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
United Federation of Conifers
#49 - 2016-10-27 10:28:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Boson Dubstep
People are going to whine and complain because its something new, but i think this will force people to make very interesting decisions and will add a lot of depth to the game.

I am already thinking about all the dank things you can do with this, and don't see the added m3 as a bad thing... bring less cap booster charges if you want more fitting options.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2016-10-27 11:52:55 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
I'm not really opposed to these changes, but I guess I don't really see the point in adding these modules. At least as it is currently planned. The Titan has to be on grid to use these modules. The effect goes away if there is a session change. So, unless you have a large enough Supercapital fleet that you can afford to put Titans on grid to support subcapital fleets, you won't ever get the benefit of this module.

And if you have that many Supercapitals, why do you care about buffing and debuffing the subcapitals? You've already guaranteed that you cannot lose the fight.



I raised this point at some stage as well. These are not going to bring guys on field with titans outside of the supercap powerhouses. There's not really a feasible asset anyone with a small to medium sized group (hell, even a large one) is going to contest where bringing in a titan to pop this effect is ever worth that level of risk.

Now it is about at this point someone says "small entities, lol titans", however FT's point is correct. The people who are going to use these are only the groups who have massive superiority already.

I cannot envisage a situation where anyone not possessing substantial supercap superiority will use these and coupled with the current meta - that sufficient titans and supers will utterly decimate a subcap fleet without needing any subcap support if their own - it's not as if said powerhouses are shy about throwing these down on grid already. I mean, unless you're all planning a good sized HAW nerf some time this year at least.
Rthulhu Voynich
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2016-10-27 13:10:04 UTC
What happens to the effect if i warp away (from the Titan/the battlefield , over 20000km) in my ship? Is it like the new Command Bursts (the effect stays on the ship for 5 minutes) or goes the effect immediately away after i warp off the grid or the Titan is destroyed?
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#52 - 2016-10-27 15:46:22 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
For people familiar with the MTG personas, these are Johnny modules rather than Spike modules.


Oh, lordy. Had no idea you played MtG.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Ali Virgo
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#53 - 2016-10-27 20:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ali Virgo
can we have new ships then changing old stuff
Gevlin
HollowPoint Studios Inc.
#54 - 2016-10-27 22:15:57 UTC
Random thought

This makes Titans the new Bard class. Singing a song(buff/debug) for the grid to hear.


Who would ever think the bard being the most uber class in the game.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Lelob
H A V O C
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#55 - 2016-10-29 00:37:13 UTC
Can you jump out while one is active?
What happens if you die? Does the effect persist?
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2016-10-29 13:48:52 UTC
That's some overwhelming penalties...
MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
#57 - 2016-10-29 19:17:19 UTC
GOB III wrote:
2 of these modules seem like they might see regular use when applicable
1 seems situational
1 seems worthless


hmmmm

also: how will these modules interact with tethering on citadels

also stop posting mack

Seriously.

I know this is the EVE Online Forums where nothing CCP does is ever good, but at a certain point you need to haul back a bit when you're raging out about a module that gives you the OPTION of applying these bonuses.

Those modules are in no way required, and it's easy to see they benefit racial fleet comps. If you want to use such a generator, use a doctrine made of ships from that race and it'll probably give you a big boost. If you're enemy reinforces with ships that are buffed by that Generator, then you'll have to redo your own Phenomena on the fly, leading to a more dynamic playing field even when giant blobs are involved.

I think this is a compelling concept that can use more work but will undoubtedly lead to some crazy battle stories once people start using these modules.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Olmeca Gold
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#58 - 2016-10-31 07:42:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Olmeca Gold
Isn't it like %100 that big tidifest fights involving capitals are gonna happen under all 4 of these effects all the time? Is there a countering mechanic here really? If you got shield doctrines you go shield buffs, if you got armor you go armor buffs. If anything it restricts doctrines which does not benefit from one of these effects.

Let's say a fleet X needs both cap and velocity. It is now severely disadvantaged in capital fights. Everyone will be forced to use the effect which benefits their own side, except if you are fleet X no matter you do the effect or not the effects will be neutral,, which already puts your fleet to the disadvantage vs a fleet which benefits from these specific changes. I don't see a mechanic of interesting play and counterplay here. I see some fleets being discriminated out of meta and people using the others which won't, while everyone doing their own effect, in the end just end up in assumption that all 4 effects will be present in titan tidifests all the time. In the end all fleets will have %30 more hp, %5 less resists, less application for missiles and guns, less ability to remote rep and %10 less speed, and fleets which do not benefit on the plus side from all these changes will be discriminated for no reason

And that Minmatar bonus is just another reason to not bring bombers to big fights at all. People underestimate how a big factor sig radius is in general so I wonder the basis of equilaventing -%30 sig radius to +%30 cap recharge. I hope but fear its because it is the same number lol.

DICKS, -%30 sig for all ships at big titan fights. Just remove bombers from the game already.

Protip: If you want interesting play and counterplay design the effects so they neutralize each other once every 4 race is applied. Atm it seriously does not.

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.

Berianck Buch
ICE is Coming to EVE
Goonswarm Federation
#59 - 2016-10-31 15:04:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Berianck Buch
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Quick clarification on the goals of these modules. We know that quite a few people will not be interested in using them and that's completely fine and expected. These modules are primarily intended for the kinds of people who enjoy experimenting with fleet tactics as a form of creative expression, who see something like this and start having fun thinking about the buildaround possibilities. These are not intended to be modules that get used in every fight. For people familiar with the MTG personas, these are Johnny modules rather than Spike modules.


So, you are replacing a +37.5% passive bonus by a 30% active one that also diminishes your resists, while consuming a big chunk of fuel and capacitor, but we are not forced to use it ?

At one point, i though i was misreading all of this, and that finally the 37.5% passive would stay, with the Phenomena Generator bringing 30% more on top of that while diminishing resists, like we do when fitting capital extenders or plates.
So I went back to Singularity in order to test that, only to realize that I was correct the first time : the passive is going away.

Therefore, we can choose not to use them, and sit on +37.5% armor and shield, or use them (but just the caldari and gallente one in supercapital fleets) to have less than what we had, while having lower resistances : I've tried the minmatar one, without the PG, my resists were 90% Th and 89% Exp, upon activation of the PG, they changed to 90%Th and 87%Exp.

I must ask then, why are you people somehow happy about this change ? This is a new supercapital EHP nerf, while not giving any substantial new game mechanics (and also being a giant pain in the ass for the poor guys having to run the damn thing).

You want to make a change, put more fleet hangar, since weapon timer are supposed to make us think of our fits before engaging, we shouldn't have to think about what to bring and repackage stuff we used so it can fit.
Regarding PG, make it more extreme, and that only one can be used at a time on the same grid, so there is a reward for however takes the risk to show up first to set conditions for a battle if you want to bring something new.

As someone said previously, this change is designed to impact subcapital fights, but no one will ever put a single titan on a subcapital fleet, and large groups will just get the nerf I described above. Keep in mind people don't play the way you want them to play.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#60 - 2016-10-31 15:53:20 UTC
The bonuses do not line up at all with every single other ship in each faction.

Note that in order to do the following you will have to adjust the numbers on some of the titans so that the Avatar doesn't have insane EHP and that Erebus has a little bit better armor tank and the Ragnarok has a little bit better shield tank, due to the - remote rep debuff. Leaving them with the wonky bonuses you have proposed doesn't make any sense.

Amarr:
+30% armor hitpoints
+10% kinetic resists
-15% EM resists
-10% all missles velocity

Caldari
+30% shield hitpoints
+10% EM resists
-15% kinetic resists
-10% all turrets optimal range

Gallente
+30% cap recharge rate
+10% explosive resists
-15% thermal resists
-10% remote shield booster effectiveness

Minmatar
-30% signature radius
+10% thermal resists
-15% explosive resists
-10% remote armor repairer effectiveness

At least take the time to make the bonuses match each races design.

Not today spaghetti.