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What is the current status of high-sec ganking?
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JPC2501
Phalanx Armament
#61 - 2016-10-26 17:56:16 UTC  |  Edited by: JPC2501
Hey thank you all for the advice.
I was playing EVE for 5 years, and then was away for 5, now I feel like a total rookie again.
Right now I’m just trying to get organized and find stuff to liquidate for ISK, (having lived in a c6 WH its really scattered) then find something to do here.

A lot has changed from my perspective. Looks like all the cargo ships have changed in terms of fitting and intended use.

I didn’t even realize such a strong tank could be fitted to a transport now, and that what was previously the low end model is now the tougher of the two.
So from what I can see, we have 1 major strategy – Cargo Value vs Gank cost.
Thanks for the math on that.

And 2 Fitting strategies, both of which seem to have some merit.
1. Tank + warp stabilizers
2. Speed, Maneuverability, Cloak.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#62 - 2016-10-26 18:10:32 UTC
JPC2501 wrote:
That’s the info I was looking for, thank you Lasisha.
I didn’t realize this had become so much of an issue even on low value cargo.

In this regard nothing much has changed in the last 6 years. It was just as bad an idea back then as it is today, to put more than 50M worth into a T1 hauler.

T1 haulers with 100M or more have always been prime ganking targets, unless you took precautions.

Remove standings and insurance.
xXuber-NitsheXx
#63 - 2016-10-27 01:50:24 UTC
Galaxy Duck wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
for the record, permits are worth crap. code will try to gank ya anyway.

Lies like this are the reason so many miners are still dying. Their blood is literally on your hands.


no, their blood is in your hands for killing them after they paid cause your permit only counts "for the code representative you paid" "if we recognize you" "in the specific ship you were in" and "in the specific system"

theres alot more technicalities you pull out of your ass at will. but in the end it all comes down to this. pay for the permit is a scam, cause they use any loophole to get around it. or just flat out ignore it.

so you'll get ganked anyway, but if you pay for the permit you get ganked for your ship +10mill



Whom are you quoting here? Can you link any sources for these egregious allegations?

No? So you made those quotes up out of whole cloth? Figured...

The truth is, New Order permits are in fact honored, it's just that highsec carebears are terrible at following the few simple rules that everyone else in the game routinely adhere to.




,
I provide the link from an internal mail.


Permits are not honoured.


But hey, make JimJones315 rich, he is smart and you are his peon in the hierarchy of things.

Do you empty his chamber pot in the morning? Smile

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS. Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2016-10-27 07:42:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
Major Trant wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
I do it this way:
fill the lows with as much warp Stabies as you can.
put a cloak and an MWD on, arrange cloak and MWD in the hud (F1 and F2)
MWD Trick and be gone.
Remember: they have scouts so little break (at a planet/station) right before going through Udema is messing it up for them too.

This way the gankers have very little time to point you and he/they has/have to land a lot of points. Not likely. If you do the MWD right you have IMHO two secs to go into warp which is enough. 1 sec to target you (after you came out of cloak), 1 for the point to hit. When the point would hit you should be in warp.
Once someone got lucky, or I was careless, and landed a point and I just waved him goodby while Concord had a little talk to him. Thanks stabies.

You can't get a Medium MWD on a T1 hauler. Filling the lows with Warp Stabies isn't going to do a lot for you in high sec either as in most case you will be dead before you can go to warp and they will conflict with the need for cargohold mods.

???? Where is the problem with a 50 MWD + Cloak + stabis on a hauler? Sure you will have to cut into the tank but the idea is not to survive the ganking attempt but not getting caught in the first place. Tank on this configuration is superfluous because when you are caught you are dead. When fitting tank you are relying on the (lack of) skills of the attacker and my configuration relays on your own ability to pull the MWD trick.
And the good thing is: This is not limiting the value of your cargo. You aren't at the merci of the gankers if they want to kill you or not you are simply denying them the chance to do so. My config will limit your cargo space but not the value.

From my region I have to make 15+ Jumps to Jita and i will certainly not do that for 100K Isk. So I need a solution for high value goods. A Blockade runner will be the next best thing and something I will certainly invest in but at the moment a cloaky T1 is serving the same way and it's cheaper and less susceptible.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#65 - 2016-10-27 09:43:50 UTC
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
for the record, permits are worth crap. code will try to gank ya anyway.

Lies like this are the reason so many miners are still dying. Their blood is literally on your hands.


no, their blood is in your hands for killing them after they paid cause your permit only counts "for the code representative you paid" "if we recognize you" "in the specific ship you were in" and "in the specific system"

More lies to mislead people into bot-aspirancy. I think it is obvious to anyone but you how you are responsible for the actions we have to take against the miners who listen to your words. It's like you would tell some kids "drugs are fine, don't listen to the parents and the police, they are a corrupt system, you will be fine" and then you tell everyone it is the polices fault if they catch those kids.

Stop this insanity now and comply to the Code!

Evil RatKid
xXuber-NitsheXx
#66 - 2016-10-27 09:52:33 UTC  |  Edited by: xXuber-NitsheXx
Now she knows her place, she is the chamber pot. The wretched of the Universe.

Out there day after day ganking her hump for just one man, no recognition for her hard work.

N the man comes around each week for her filthy lucre.


A slap or some ridicule if she does not meet her quota.

Break free young lady, he treats you no good......

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS. Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2016-10-27 09:54:39 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
for the record, permits are worth crap. code will try to gank ya anyway.

Lies like this are the reason so many miners are still dying. Their blood is literally on your hands.


no, their blood is in your hands for killing them after they paid cause your permit only counts "for the code representative you paid" "if we recognize you" "in the specific ship you were in" and "in the specific system"

More lies to mislead people into bot-aspirancy. I think it is obvious to anyone but you how you are responsible for the actions we have to take against the miners who listen to your words. It's like you would tell some kids "drugs are fine, don't listen to the parents and the police, they are a corrupt system, you will be fine" and then you tell everyone it is the polices fault if they catch those kids.

Stop this insanity now and comply to the Code!

Yes the CODE

A protection racket, that does not even protect you from themselves let alone anyone else.
Born to kill mining bots and now reduced to ganking anything that moves, for profit or just killboard stats.

The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.

After all we are not just players, we are customers.

Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#68 - 2016-10-27 09:55:27 UTC
xXuber-NitsheXx wrote:

I provide the link from an internal mail.

Permits are not honoured.

Our fearless former alliance leader (may he rest in peace) obviously discusses in this link the validity of a gank if the suspect in question is in violation of the Code but still has a mining permit. I quote:

loyalanon #1 PvPer of EVE and fearless leader of the CODE. alliance wrote:

Also as far as I am concerned TCE does not recognise permits as a way for a miner to avoid justice.


I highlighted the important part for you.

Fact is there is not a single documented case of a wrongfully executed gank. We even have our internal affairs department which deals with such accusations and studies each case without bias.

As you can see this is a perfect system and the miners are in good hands if only they follow the Code.

Evil RatKid
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#69 - 2016-10-27 10:01:40 UTC
Mark Marconi wrote:
Born to kill mining bots and now reduced to ganking anything that moves, for profit or just killboard stats.

We often encounter this argument that we used to go after bots. It is actually not true. Can you elaborate how you came up or who gave you this idea?

We are probably the most open alliance and there is literally hundreds of pages of documentation about our motivation. But somehow the rebels are still confused. It says a lot about their ability to form a consistent thought and about why they fail continuously non-stop daily.

Evil RatKid
xXuber-NitsheXx
#70 - 2016-10-27 10:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: xXuber-NitsheXx
Ima, this song goes out to you. Pirate



You know you are close to my heart and forever in my thoughts. Smile

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS. Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2016-10-27 10:33:11 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Mark Marconi wrote:
Born to kill mining bots and now reduced to ganking anything that moves, for profit or just killboard stats.

We often encounter this argument that we used to go after bots. It is actually not true. Can you elaborate how you came up or who gave you this idea?

We are probably the most open alliance and there is literally hundreds of pages of documentation about our motivation. But somehow the rebels are still confused. It says a lot about their ability to form a consistent thought and about why they fail continuously non-stop daily.

I don't know

Might have been some of the Great James 315's statements
James 315 wrote:
Why Do Miners Violate the Code?
Whenever I venture forth unto the ice fields and asteroid belts of highsec to enforce the New Halaima Code of Conduct, there are always miners who vociferously object to the Code. Partly that's because they don't like the idea of being placed under someone else's authority. But some of the highsec miners genuinely disagree with the Code--often without having read it.

On occasion, I'll ask the miners what about the Code they actually disagree with, and what they would to improve it. I know they won't have any good ideas, but I ask the question out of respect. In fact, the highsec miners have to concede that they agree with nearly every provision in the Code; they oppose botting, for instance. And miners have different ideas about whether AFK mining is desirable.

At this time there was a huge botting problem and James 315 was actually helpful in solving it.
James 315 wrote:
Having degraded themselves through a career of minimal, repetitive activity for "fun," the miners slowly transform themselves into bots. Most highsec miners claim to hate the bots, but their actions suggest they aspire to become bots, or as close as they can get. Sadly, CCP has enabled them by providing them with the tools of their addiction. Miners are now just one mouse-click per hour from becoming bots.


As you will also denote miner bumping was about exactly that. Bumping miners out of the range of minerals. Not killing them or anyone else for fun or profit.
James 315 wrote:
The New Order began as a dream, as one man with a stabber bumping some miners in Halaima. They said it was impossible. They said I was a dreamer, and they were right--but I'm not the only one. We are the hope and the future of EVE. No one can stop the New Order. They can only join us, and love us. Highsec is ours.

You are nothing more than the repetitive clicking people James 315 set up Miner Bumping to stop. You have turned from your God and may he strike you down.

The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.

After all we are not just players, we are customers.

Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Ishido Attaka
Purity of the Iron Cold
#72 - 2016-10-27 11:00:24 UTC
JPC2501 wrote:
we have 1 major strategy – Cargo Value vs Gank cost.
Thanks for the math on that.
.


Wrong. It was valid year or two ago and only worked for procurers.

Today you will be shot by CODE. or ministry of luv losers just because you fly a hauler. Even empty one. Because of blackmail. As soon as they manage to destroy your defensless ship and cowardly eject from thiers before concord destroys it (apparently they are not able to care weight of responsibility for their own deeds) you will get a mail. Not one but more of them. They will demand money or you will be killed on sight because you are now on their list.

My guess that those loosers get much more money from stupid players, who think paying permit will help then avoid ganking. Reality is, that after first money you will be charged for more, for different reasons, pretty much regulary letters. Because they claim, that high sec is theirs and you are there... Even if you keep paying more and more you will be scanned and killed if you carry something, what they want. Because "transporting capital ship parts require extra permit", for example.

You are paying - that the whole reason why this will happen to you. All those idiots, who bought permits, are to blame for high sec ganking of even empty haulers.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#73 - 2016-10-27 12:27:20 UTC
Mark Marconi wrote:
rabble

Seriously, maybe you should start to read the blog from the time when all this started. Yes, James started out bumping miners, not bots and as soon as more people joined the fun they quickly started ganking as a much more effective way of dealing with the bot-aspirants.

Evil RatKid
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#74 - 2016-10-27 12:30:09 UTC
Ishido Attaka wrote:
and cowardly eject from thiers before concord destroys it

Lol, and why exactly should we eject?

Evil RatKid
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#75 - 2016-10-27 13:45:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Galaxy Duck
xXuber-NitsheXx wrote:
Galaxy Duck wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
for the record, permits are worth crap. code will try to gank ya anyway.

Lies like this are the reason so many miners are still dying. Their blood is literally on your hands.


no, their blood is in your hands for killing them after they paid cause your permit only counts "for the code representative you paid" "if we recognize you" "in the specific ship you were in" and "in the specific system"

theres alot more technicalities you pull out of your ass at will. but in the end it all comes down to this. pay for the permit is a scam, cause they use any loophole to get around it. or just flat out ignore it.

so you'll get ganked anyway, but if you pay for the permit you get ganked for your ship +10mill



Whom are you quoting here? Can you link any sources for these egregious allegations?

No? So you made those quotes up out of whole cloth? Figured...

The truth is, New Order permits are in fact honored, it's just that highsec carebears are terrible at following the few simple rules that everyone else in the game routinely adhere to.




,
I provide the link from an internal mail.


Permits are not honoured.


But hey, make JimJones315 rich, he is smart and you are his peon in the hierarchy of things.

Do you empty his chamber pot in the morning? Smile




1) Those quotes aren't anywhere in the link you provided, so they're not quotes at all, but in fact 100% fabricated lies.

2) If you have access to our alliance evemails, then you can plainly see that the New Order as a whole rejected loyalanon's disregard for mining permits. You'll notice that he is no longer our alliance head. The guy was flying off the handle and heading straight for a ban.

3) James 315 is the only leader of the New Order movement. Always has been. The executor of CODE. is a glorified secretarial position.

4) Permits ARE in fact honored, and you have absolutely no evidence to the contrary. Just admit it.

5) loyalanon is australian.

6) I'm a happy peon. Big smile
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#76 - 2016-10-27 13:57:51 UTC
Mark Marconi wrote:


As you will also denote miner bumping was about exactly that. Bumping miners out of the range of minerals. Not killing them or anyone else for fun or profit.


Lolwut?

xXuber-NitsheXx
#77 - 2016-10-27 14:24:11 UTC


"A happy Codie is content to hold his masters bucket no matter how splashed he gets."

James513 Codie Manifest , annex 3, addendum F.


Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS. Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#78 - 2016-10-27 15:31:47 UTC
I'm glad to see that your argument has devolved into vacuous ad hominems. An objective observer can now see very clearly who the goofus is here.

Mission accomplished. \o/
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2016-10-27 17:04:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Soltys
JPC2501 wrote:

Hi I’ve been away for a few years and just recently returned.
I’m wondering how the game has evolved pertaining towards high-sec ganking.

I just got killed in a Tayra transport. I was not AKF, I was manually jumping and was popped pretty much instantly.
The cargo wasn’t even that valuable, about 150mil.

Is there anyway to defend against this?


1) use scout(s)
2) use channel chats with ganking intel
3) make bookmarks in the systems you pass through
4) double wrap packages (and rename them along the way)
5) use proper ship for the job, e.g.

1m ehp impel (or analogous other DSTs, beware heavy neut pressure though)
<1s align astero (alternatively jackdaw/hecate can go <1s as well and notably cheaper, but you lose covops)
BR of your choice if your cargo is somewhere between those.
Yacht is damn nice ship for tiny super valuable cargo as well (covops, nullified, can go <2s)

None of this of course guarantee immunity, the ships pushed to those limits can be relatively expensive - but at least some of those combined can lower the chance to near 0.

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2016-10-27 20:44:13 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Mark Marconi wrote:
rabble

Seriously, maybe you should start to read the blog from the time when all this started. Yes, James started out bumping miners, not bots and as soon as more people joined the fun they quickly started ganking as a much more effective way of dealing with the bot-aspirants.

So you turned away from your god and started to kill in his name. Now you perform repetitive clicks and hoard isk the same as those he sort to stop.

Burn blasphemer!!

The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.

After all we are not just players, we are customers.

Time for the CSM to be disbanded.