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INCURSIONS - NERF SUPPORTED BY CCP AND VEILED AS A USER-COMMITTED EVENT

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Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#1 - 2012-01-18 13:51:34 UTC
For those of you who do not bother to read the news on your character selection page. CCP are now actively supporting anything other richer, far more powerful players do in order to get Highsec dwellers into lowsec. The news is veiled as an almost allegoric mission by Krissada, which CCP are strutting as "the right stuff".

I am not an Incursion runner and never have been, but this is not a sandbox anymore, not when CCP and CSM actively join forces on nerfing the game for other players. If Incusrions are an ISK faucet which carry no risk, then nerf them, like CCP nerf Ships and modules.

Quote:

reported by: ISD Eumaios Thelousses | 2012.01.18 01:30:21
New Eden - A group of capsuleers, led by Krissada, are attempting to disrupt the “ISK farming” currently occurring at Sansha Incursion sites. They are planning to destroy Sansha motherships as soon as they arrive through their wormholes and in doing so hope to cut back the amount of ISK earned by capsuleers who attend the incursions simply to collect bounties on the lesser Sansha forces in the area.

Krissada is apparently aggrieved that "bears" are able to "farm" for ISK in high-sec Incursions with little risk as long as they do not destroy the Sansha mothership. This, to her, is a blatant misuse of CONCORD's reward system and she is focused on stopping what she believes is an "ISK faucet". Disgruntled with how Incursions are fought she revealed her belief that "Sansha forces appear to be infinite, as is the depth of CONCORD's wallet".

Krissada's plan is to destroy the Sansha motherships as soon as possible which will hopefully cause the immediate withdrawal of Sansha forces and prevent further bounties being collected by "Incursion Bears". She hopes to force those wanting to make ISK from Incursions into low-sec and thus ensuring when Sansha forces arrive in high-sec they are dealt with quickly by capsuleers who want to see victory rather than reward.

Giving firm backing to Krissada, CSM member Darius III seemed to agree that high-sec Incursions are no longer about defeating Sansha's Nation but more about what can be earned: “The sites pay too much with almost no risk.”

HardinSalvor, an Incursion community leader, reflected on how things have changed due to the lure of ISK: “Once the influence dropped low enough for the mom to spawn, people would rush to kill it. Through some diplomacy, a status quo was created where we avoid killing the mom as long as possible.”

Some questionable math by community leaders sees them believing that an incredible 621 billion ISK is paid out by CONCORD every week from Incursions. If the numbers are accurate, it may be no surprise that a prominent Fleet Commander from the BTL Incursion channel is alleged to have bribed Darius III with 500 million ISK to not destroy a mothership during an Incursion.


What utter hogwash. Either fix the incursion reward system (which has been discussed at great length in other threads), or nerf incursions totally. Rewarding and supporting elite, "already super-rich" players to make it crappy for other players to have their fun is underhanded and goes beyond the sandbox.

So what's next, screw-up missions as well, right ?

Way to go CCP, let's see what else you can come up with to chase players out of Eve.

Fix things, stop breaking the game by supporting such idiocy.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Endeavour Starfleet
#2 - 2012-01-18 13:56:07 UTC
Even the title in the news is meant to convey the BS about incursions being too rewarding.

I was suspicious of this line at first. Several CSM members saying they wanted limited changes. Yet with this news post and the joining of hands to implement the drake nerf I am pretty sure in my opinion that we have ourselves a nice little push to nerf hisec.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-01-18 14:00:37 UTC
Hate to break it to you guys but Incursions were always meant to encourage this kind of game play. Right from the beginning we were told that people could come into an Incursion and work for or against the other players fighting the Sansha threat. So...sandbox working as intended. Your idea to prevent said player from playing his way is what breaks the sandbox...not the other way around. If you don't like it...get a bigger force of people than them and kill them before they ruin your fun. Simple as that.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Endeavour Starfleet
#4 - 2012-01-18 14:05:25 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Hate to break it to you guys but Incursions were always meant to encourage this kind of game play. Right from the beginning we were told that people could come into an Incursion and work for or against the other players fighting the Sansha threat. So...sandbox working as intended. Your idea to prevent said player from playing his way is what breaks the sandbox...not the other way around. If you don't like it...get a bigger force of people than them and kill them before they ruin your fun. Simple as that.


You don't get it.

The article is in my opinion about turning people who know nothing about them against incursions so it is easier to push in big nerfs to them. The election season stunt he pulled was a sideshow compared to what they want to do in my opinion.
Juliana Stinger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-01-18 14:07:08 UTC
"621 billion ISK is paid out by CONCORD every week from Incursions" impressive amount of isk they are making.
Elder Ozzian
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-01-18 14:09:14 UTC
I read the CSM minutes, and noticed that there were some plans with incursions; IT'S NOT A NERF, it's balancing. Vanguard sites are the most valuable sites in incursions, therefore it should be brought to the same level as eq. Assault sites.

How this is done? I don't actually care as long as the results shows reduction in pilots doing vanguard sites, and increase in pilots doing HQ sites.

And for the incursions, this is actually buffing them. More random numbers with spawns, and more situations to handle = fun.

I disagree!
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2012-01-18 14:10:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
Did you know that if you wrap your hard drive in two layers of tinfoil, it will prevent your Drake from getting nerfed?

.
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#8 - 2012-01-18 14:12:15 UTC
Roime wrote:
Did you know that if you wrap your hard drive in two layers of tinfoil, it will prevent your Drake from getting nerfed?


So if I wrap my Myrmidon in tinfoil, will that fix it ?

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Lexmana
#9 - 2012-01-18 14:17:52 UTC
I approve of this new service and/or product brought to the EVE sandbox by Krissada and Darius III et al.

@ OP and the likes, you are just a bunch of whiners that think your whining will be accepted if it is spelled in capital letters. It wont.
jonnus ursidae
Blacklight Holdings
#10 - 2012-01-18 14:29:48 UTC
I've never run an Incursion but I hear the rewards are ridiculous, good on whoever is stopping that.. Darius III wasn't he a Goon?

I've never collected moon goo but I hear the rewards are ridiculous, good on whoever is stopping that... wait that'd be nobody.
Alicia Fermi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-01-18 14:31:39 UTC
I do not think any sensible incursion runner would think that vanguards, as they current exist, are anything but broken. When critics speak of an insane ISK faucet (tap, dammit), I suspect they are referring to shiny fleets grinding vanguards as if CCP is going to remove them the following day. With respect to vanguards, the critics are right: there is too much ISK for too little risk. What the minutes the other day revealed is that CCP and the CSM agree that vanguards need to be brought down and/or made more difficult, and that the bigger sites need to be more enticing. I see these changes as good moves: social and coordinated play should reward its pilots.

If the shiny blitz fleets in vanguards are slowed down and the rewards adjusted so that the biggest sites become a better source of income then I think high-sec incursions will be largely repaired. The anti-mom fleets are more of a side issue and do not really fix the problem with vanguard grinding. All they do is take us back to the time before the BTL/DTF agreement to maximise incursion time. If the anti-incursion community feel that, after vanguard adjustments, the farming of sites with the mothership up is still abhorrent then they can continue to pop the mothership. It is no more griefing than another fleet coming in to contest your site.
Endeavour Starfleet
#12 - 2012-01-18 14:34:12 UTC
Um the only thing that needs to happen with Vanguards is remove the ability to blitz them without killing everything. EVERYTHING ELSE has a much higher effect on nonshiny fleets and needs not be considered.
Elessa Enaka
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-01-18 14:37:08 UTC
I've never run an Incursion on any of my accounts, but this sounds like a positive IMHO.

I would assume that the intent of running an Incursion is to defeat the Sansha threat, not to float in space farming bounties. If you want to do that, go ratting.

AFAIK, Vanguards are the "low-level" sites associated with Incursions, followed by Assaults and then the HQ, why should Vanguards be where all of the ISK is?

You would think that the "higher-level" sites would provide a better payout, I mean, am I just crazy or does that make sense to anyone else too?

Devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been Eve is a great game if you can get past all of the asshats....
AnkaD
Simply Terribad
#14 - 2012-01-18 14:38:06 UTC
jonnus ursidae wrote:


I've never collected moon goo but I hear the rewards are ridiculous, good on whoever is stopping that... wait that'd be nobody.


Read the minutes before complaining for fucks sake
Tore Vest
#15 - 2012-01-18 14:40:55 UTC
Elder Ozzian wrote:
IT'S NOT A NERF, it's balancing.

Yeah.... rigth...
CCP dont like the word "nerf".... So they call it "balancing". Bear

They removed allmost all drones from super-carriers (a droneship)
and called it "rebalancing"

No troll.
Alicia Fermi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-01-18 14:44:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Alicia Fermi
Elessa Enaka wrote:
AFAIK, Vanguards are the "low-level" sites associated with Incursions, followed by Assaults and then the HQ, why should Vanguards be where all of the ISK is?

You would think that the "higher-level" sites would provide a better payout, I mean, am I just crazy or does that make sense to anyone else too?

Scout sites are the lowest level site but they are not even worth listing. It would be great if CCP could fix them to be something that a few newbies could run to make some reasonable ISK but there are other broken things in the game that really do need to be fixed before those (changing subsystems in a wormhole is a particularly egregious issue I hear from rabbit hole divers). Assaults and HQs do pay out more in ISK and LP per single site but it is much more efficient to grind vanguards quickly because there is hardly any variation to them and you can do them in your sleep.

Making assaults and HQs more ISK/hour would be a great change to incursions. Vanguards are just too easy.
Endeavour Starfleet
#17 - 2012-01-18 14:44:52 UTC
AnkaD wrote:
jonnus ursidae wrote:


I've never collected moon goo but I hear the rewards are ridiculous, good on whoever is stopping that... wait that'd be nobody.


Read the minutes before complaining for fucks sake


They have been "talking" about moon goo changes for a LONG time now.

Funny thing is it never happens.
Krissada
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#18 - 2012-01-18 14:46:33 UTC
Did someone mention my name?
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#19 - 2012-01-18 14:49:47 UTC
posting in a "Bricksquad stoled my MOM" tears thread
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-01-18 14:59:27 UTC
jonnus ursidae wrote:
Darius III wasn't he a Goon?


Ugh, we do have some standards you know.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
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