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BLOPS/BOBS tweaks/Synergy

Author
Lugh Crow-Slave
#21 - 2016-10-21 01:56:54 UTC
thats not the problem thats the balance BBs can put out much more DPS with much higher tank BUT need help to reach that. in a blops fleet BBs are not meant to be your main DPS they are something you bring to make up for low numbers otherwise the only thing that should go through the cyno are bombers and recons
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#22 - 2016-10-21 13:38:14 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
thats not the problem thats the balance BBs can put out much more DPS with much higher tank BUT need help to reach that. in a blops fleet BBs are not meant to be your main DPS they are something you bring to make up for low numbers otherwise the only thing that should go through the cyno are bombers and recons



A well skilled bomber gets 650-700 dps for about 50m. They can sig tank some fighters, warp cloaked, lock fast, move fast, and are fast, efficient killing machines.

A blops BS gets 800-1500 dps for about 1.2b-3b. They cannot sig tank fighters, warp cloaked, lock fast, move fast, and are not fast, efficient killing machines.

Same syndrome that makes big ships dumb elsewhere in the game. Why undock anything when you could undock a svipul? Bigger things implicitly should not require small things to work. Dumping the SP and ISK into a blops BS should not just make you a worthless liability on drops. They are great for sport hunting in places where the locals do not fight, yes, they are good for dropping on smallish gangs, yes, but they just lack any sort of streamlining that would let them do their job in well defended places.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Lugh Crow-Slave
#23 - 2016-10-21 13:46:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
the only place I use these is in well defended places that I can't get a normal fleet through.... and why are you bothering to sig tank fighters? A single falcon van permanently jam 2 carriers worth of fighters


But with your logic is should be able to solo in a dead and be near untouchable in a titan.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2016-10-21 15:55:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Old Pervert
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Give blops a 100% scan res increase after jumping for 30s. Suddenly, they are vicious ambush ships, but with a quite intentional and necessary glass jaw.



I like this... however I'd say after decloaking, for like 5 seconds, rather than after a jump. That way it's still useful for ambushes when you've already jumped into system (cloaky camping in a BOBS lol). Or if we really wanted to get creative, since they somehow go faster cloaked perhaps they could also invert the scan res penalty?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#25 - 2016-10-21 23:02:50 UTC
just don't fit a cloak.... and use a sebo. you guys are trying to take a relatively balanced ship class and break it.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#26 - 2016-10-22 00:03:56 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
just don't fit a cloak.... and use a sebo. you guys are trying to take a relatively balanced ship class and break it.



"Just don't fit a cloak" -> you will lose your blops.

The whole point is that you are able to strike into defended areas and escape. It's supposed to be a specialist ship - basically DPS strapped to a jump drive - except 95% of the time, that DPS is worthless without a SEBO. Mandatory SEBO is just bad design. Everything that is true of the ship meta hating things larger than a cruiser is very true with blops BSes as well. Blops BS just cant keep up with bombers unless they have 1-2 sebos, and it is just bad design

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Lugh Crow-Slave
#27 - 2016-10-22 06:11:44 UTC
I'm sorry but not fitting a cloak does not equal a lost blops it is a choice you need to make between cheep cloak with crap lock time an expensive cloak with moderate lock time or no cloak for best lock time. The scan res isn't even the main reason you don't see larger ships all that often it comes down to warp speed and cost effectiveness. With cost effectiveness in eve you will always see an exponential lower return on your investment the more expensive something is. They always become less effective and many times more niche than the same isk investment in a cheaper option. When this balance becomes upset you see things become op. The old carriers and current T3ds and T3Cs are great examples of this. As an mmo balance will always favor numbers over cost.

That mentality couples with the idea that larger ships need help from smaller ones to get the job done. That makes it hard to use these ships as you need well trained pilots that work well together and you fleet becomes more and more vulnerable as ships are lost. Not to mention the strain on an fc needing to be aware of the current fleets capabilities s opposed to a fleet with two or three different types of identical ships.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#28 - 2016-10-22 14:39:29 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
I'm sorry but not fitting a cloak does not equal a lost blops it is a choice you need to make between cheep cloak with crap lock time an expensive cloak with moderate lock time or no cloak for best lock time.



Yes, yes it does.

If you are hitting dumb areas like provi, where the residents are literally too new or inexperienced, you can basically fit all purples and never fear a counter drop, and really don't need a cloak, and can just tip over ratters all day.

If you are hitting hardened areas where the residents know how to counter-drop, know how to bait, and know how to probe, no cloak is a dead blops, unless you have like 40 or more of them.

It would be nice if Blops BS were actually good at raiding hardened areas, i.e what they are designed to do. It is good that they are fragile, it is good that they are slow, but to not actually be able to gank effectively without further fitting restrictions is just silly.

If that is your main, somehow I doubt you actually blops that much.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

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