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Dev Blog: EULA Changes Coming With EVE Online: Ascension

First post First post
Author
Riker Atros
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#581 - 2016-10-20 15:59:59 UTC
So if it is going free to play will I get refunded for the Plex I just put into my account a few days ago?
Riker Atros
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#582 - 2016-10-20 16:01:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Riker Atros
CCP Falcon wrote:
Good afternoon capsuleers!

Today we're here to announce some changes to the EVE Online EULA that are coming with the launch of EVE Online: Ascension.

You can read all about them in this Dev Blog, which includes a handy red-lined version of the new EULA that will come into effect on Tuesday, November 8th, 2016.


Updates & Clarifications:

The 90 day clause:

Our policy on inactive accounts has not changed, we have simply shortened the notice period from six months to three months due to a potentially higher volume of account creation.



So If I go inactive for a while we are still safe and won't have to worry about deletion? only applies to free accounts, or ones under a certain age???


OH and GOD FORBID someone is making isk gambling,. but scamming new players, or anyone. yeah that is perfectly ok.


maybe add this: scamming or intentionally misleading other players for personal gain will cause your account and all related accounts to be permanently banned and deleted.
Riker Atros
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#583 - 2016-10-20 16:18:51 UTC
Toobo wrote:
Only thing CCP can do to make gambling possible again within the new EULA is to have an in game dice, like WOW had. But if people start gambling on it, CCP could still get into trouble with the current funny simulation of the legal world we are living in now,

I never asekd for ISK back or gambling be allowed in EVE again. It will not happen. I just pointed out how shite CCP has handled it, but that doesn't mean I'm asking CCP to reverse its decision.



virtual gambling is not illegal especially when technically you are not supposed to spend real money to get said fake money OH WAIT YOU CAN< ever heard of World series of poker or zynga poker for your cell phone? or all those other slow machine games?

you can spend REAL Money on that the LEGAL difference is you cannot get real money out of it lol. frankly that is WORSE than real life gambling because you can at least get your money back lmao. but frankly the problem is that when you know u can MAYBE get it back you can be sucked into it, knowing a head of time that you are paying for entertainment and nothing else then you are less likely to become addicted etc.

I am all for this. people getting (in game rich) for no risk what so ever? using CCP's intellectual property. if they want that kind of isk start running missions etc. lol.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#584 - 2016-10-20 17:08:17 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
What it boils down to is the same as it's always been.

If you think you're in that grey area where the rules may apply, it IS better to ask permission, as CCP rarely grants forgiveness once the bans have been distributed.

Getting an answer up front costs nothing except patience.


I agree. This is a good policy in most (all) cases.

But I also think that Toobo's "competition" is a game of skill more than chance. Yes, the game environment would bring in elements of chance, but it isn't gambling.

One possible problem is if people are making side bets quite possibly without Toobo knowing about it. Maybe that is what CCP/the GM is thinking about. IDK.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#585 - 2016-10-20 17:09:23 UTC
Riker Atros wrote:
So if it is going free to play will I get refunded for the Plex I just put into my account a few days ago?


Why?

You put that PLEX in and you'll get 30 days game time. After that you can let your account lapse in to Alpha state along with all the SP restrictions that entails.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#586 - 2016-10-20 17:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Riker Atros wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Good afternoon capsuleers!

Today we're here to announce some changes to the EVE Online EULA that are coming with the launch of EVE Online: Ascension.

You can read all about them in this Dev Blog, which includes a handy red-lined version of the new EULA that will come into effect on Tuesday, November 8th, 2016.


Updates & Clarifications:

The 90 day clause:

Our policy on inactive accounts has not changed, we have simply shortened the notice period from six months to three months due to a potentially higher volume of account creation.



So If I go inactive for a while we are still safe and won't have to worry about deletion? only applies to free accounts, or ones under a certain age???


OH and GOD FORBID someone is making isk gambling,. but scamming new players, or anyone. yeah that is perfectly ok.


maybe add this: scamming or intentionally misleading other players for personal gain will cause your account and all related accounts to be permanently banned and deleted.


This has always been there. Just in the past it was 6 months now it is 3.

Maybe you should read up on the lawsuits about gambling in video games.....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#587 - 2016-10-20 17:16:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Elenahina
Teckos Pech wrote:
Quote:

OH and GOD FORBID someone is making isk gambling,. but scamming new players, or anyone. yeah that is perfectly ok.


maybe add this: scamming or intentionally misleading other players for personal gain will cause your account and all related accounts to be permanently banned and deleted.


This has always been there. Just in the past it was 6 months now it is 3.

Maybe you should read up on the lawsuits about gambling in video games.....


You cannot teach a man what he thinks he already knows.

Edited to fix a broken quote. Because forums r hard, mmmkay

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Toobo
Project Fruit House
#588 - 2016-10-20 17:36:14 UTC
Yeah Teckos, that's where I was surprised. I basically asked CCP if I can run a configurable KB, where people can run campaigns and do a pay per kill/pay for the top killet of the month kind of thing. It was all going to be based on in game kills, as I get it crystal clear now that any game of chance will not be allowed. Yet CCP sayd this is not ok. If the same stance is allowed even somethinh traditional loke hulkageddon will not be allowed using a third party killboard. I got the no gambling part and accepted and decided to move on with it, but now it seems even third party KB based pvp competiton and prize ISK giving is specifically struck out as not permitted. I wanted to divert my ISK into funding such killboard platforms where people can set objectives and participate in competitions, so that ISK pay out is given out according to in game kills. But oh well, even thisnis not ok now. :p

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Hetty Lang
Kratus Tria
#589 - 2016-10-20 20:47:44 UTC
So does this mean that if your account hasn't been sub or played with for 3 months is a breach of the EULA and your account will be deleted?

Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#590 - 2016-10-20 21:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Elenahina
Hetty Lang wrote:
So does this mean that if your account hasn't been sub or played with for 3 months is a breach of the EULA and your account will be deleted?



For the thousandth time, no. It means that if your account isn't subbed for 90 consecutive days, CCP can, at their discretion, delete it. For the record, they could always do this - they just shortened the timeline to 90 days from 180.

However, in thirteen years, I don't think they've ever actually deleted any account. The only reason they would do that is if they needed to trim back the database size for some reason.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#591 - 2016-10-20 21:37:13 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Hetty Lang wrote:
So does this mean that if your account hasn't been sub or played with for 3 months is a breach of the EULA and your account will be deleted?



For the thousandth time, no. It means that if your account isn't subbed for 90 consecutive days, CCP can, at their discretion, delete it. For the record, they could always do this - they just shortened the timeline to 90 days from 180.

However, in thirteen years, I don't think they've ever actually deleted any account. The only reason they would do that is if they needed to trim back the database size for some reason.


I thought they deleted a bunch of trial accounts past the 180 day mark, but as they were trials...meh...who cares. As for paid subs, I don't think they have ever done this.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Urziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#592 - 2016-10-20 22:57:30 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Hetty Lang wrote:
So does this mean that if your account hasn't been sub or played with for 3 months is a breach of the EULA and your account will be deleted?



For the thousandth time, no. It means that if your account isn't subbed for 90 consecutive days, CCP can, at their discretion, delete it. For the record, they could always do this - they just shortened the timeline to 90 days from 180.

However, in thirteen years, I don't think they've ever actually deleted any account. The only reason they would do that is if they needed to trim back the database size for some reason.


I thought they deleted a bunch of trial accounts past the 180 day mark, but as they were trials...meh...who cares. As for paid subs, I don't think they have ever done this.


They were from trials that were never subbed, they did it to free up names. and IIRC they only did it once.
Astrid Farnsworth
Broke and Famous
#593 - 2016-10-21 04:13:27 UTC
Wait guys they free up the names, not delete de account. That mean if after sorting time and the person comeback to the game they will have generic name, not the initial name they had. Ccp dont delete accounts.

"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics." - Gen. Robert H. Barrow, USMC (Commandant of the Marine Corps) noted in 1980**strong text**

Anataine Deva
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#594 - 2016-10-25 08:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Anataine Deva
Sadly my question "Where is the line between a game of chance and a give away?" is still not answered by any CCP officials. The GMs as far as I know don't know it either.

So if I randomly pick a capsuleer in local and give him a ship, or ISK for free, that's a give away and not a game of chance, right?

But if I ask first, who want's a prize for free and I pick randomly one of the capsuleers who replied, then is that a game of chance? And all who replied are at risk to get banned?

I don't ask for making gambling legal but for making the EULA more understandable for your customers. Even for you CCP guys, it must be obvious that the current EULA is too vague defined and out of touch with reality.

Give The BIG Lottery a try (it's conform with the EULA) and me your Fedos!

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#595 - 2016-10-27 22:53:03 UTC
I hope CCP is planning to introduce their own version of EVEBet & this is just their way to get rid of the middleman.

I've never gambled on any of the various gambling sites, but it seems that if people want to send CCP money to get their gambling fix, then CCP should let them, especially if that means cheaper PLEXes for me.
Clara D'Arbanville
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#596 - 2016-10-28 09:27:35 UTC
CCP - I seek clarification of a matter from you please as recommended by Senior GM Dagon.

I will not post his response to Support Request #274641 as I am aware that it is prohibited. All I will say is that he stated that Customer Support was unable to provide the clarification I requested in my support ticket, and he directed me to post to you in this Dev Blog for you to address.

Please find below my ticket submitted on Oct 19th @ 17:25 UTC in regards to the updates to the EULA and a scenario which I need certain clarifications on its legality now that the EULA has been amended.

"Good evening CCP.

I'm receiving conflicting advice from friends and so I need to run a scenario past you before Nov 8th please to confirm whether this complies with the recent changes to the EULA.

If I run an in-game raffle whereby alliance members send me ISK for raffle tickets, and with that ISK I buy prizes from the in-game market in Jita 4-4 e.g. Ships, Injectors, PLEX etc. A draw takes place determining winning tickets and those prizes are given out to the winners. Is that now a breach the new EULA?

To clarify - No ISK or in-game assets are ever able to be taken out of the game. No-one gives ISK to anything or anyone outside of the game. ALL transactions are conducted within the game via the "Give ISK" option to purchase tickets, and then prizes are given out via contracts just like any other item.

I've read the new EULA several times and from what I can tell the EULA is targeting "Outside influences" on the in-game economy.... which I agree with..... however my scenario has no outside influences on the in-game economy, so is it acceptable?

Thanks for your time on this, I really want to avoid breaking any rules.

Kind regards."

As you can see with the above scenario, I hope you understand my feeling the need to seek clarification. Lotteries and raffles such as this scenario have taken place in the game for years, with the only outside influence for them being something like Chribbas DICE or another such random number generator to pick winning tickets.

I hope that you can shed some light.

Thanks for your time.

Kind regards.
Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
#597 - 2016-10-28 09:59:22 UTC
So... the delay of Ascension will delay the EULA changes (including "gambling ban"), too?
Anataine Deva
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#598 - 2016-10-28 10:11:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Anataine Deva
Samsara Toldya wrote:
So... the delay of Ascension will delay the EULA changes (including "gambling ban"), too?
No it will not.

CCP Falcon wrote:
Please note: The postponement of the Ascension deployment does not affect the already announced changes to the EULA. These will still come into effect on Tuesday, November 8th, 2016.
Source: https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/deployment-of-eve-online-ascension-postponed-until-2016-11-15/


@CCP:
Anataine Deva wrote:
Sadly my question "Where is the line between a game of chance and a give away?" is still not answered by any CCP officials...
Full Post: #594

Give The BIG Lottery a try (it's conform with the EULA) and me your Fedos!

Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
#599 - 2016-10-28 10:23:05 UTC
Anataine Deva wrote:
Samsara Toldya wrote:
So... the delay of Ascension will delay the EULA changes (including "gambling ban"), too?
No it will not.


Hm... kind of difficult. So I'm going to have a free to play Alpha Clone as stated in the new EULA* without Alpha Clones being released.

*"keep that Account active by paying the subscription fee on a timely basis" is removed on Nov 8th.

Let's see how that will work... what could go wrong ^^
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#600 - 2016-10-28 11:36:02 UTC
Does isk doubling fall under the new 3rd party rules against games of chance?
Since there's a chance you get money back can we report them for doing illegal gamblings through the third parties, hmm?