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Astero survival tips

Author
Muroka Motsu
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-10-19 20:46:53 UTC
I'm an explorer, here's my record of losses: https://zkillboard.com/character/96805673/

I regret them, but none of them were as costly as losing my first Astero. Admittedly, my skills were a bit on the low side to be piloting it, and they probably still are. But I have another one, I'm a couple days away from Cloaking IV, and I plan to start flying it pretty soon. I was wondering if anyone has any tips for surviving in the Astero with the covert ops cloak. I will be going into null, scanning, and then hopefully sneaking past gate camps to get back out. I'll be sneaking past gate camps going in and out.

I want to know what this will be like before it happens, if it's possible. Earlier today I jumped into a system and the gate had a warp bubble around it. I cloaked using my prototype cloaking device, and creeped toward the edge of the bubble. But the interdictor camping the gate got close, decloaked me, and it was all over. With the Astero, will this still be a danger? Or would I have been able to cloak and then get away much faster, i.e. no speed reduction?

I know this is how it's supposed to work, but I just want to hear someone confirm it before I undock in this thing. I am flying something I can't really afford to lose, and I'm taking the risk because I don't have a lot of other options right now.

Thanks,

Muroka
Alma Torran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2016-10-19 20:55:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Alma Torran
you want to learn the cloaky warp trick, click cloak and mwd as soon as your aligning to your gate, once your out of the bubble, warp, try to warp to planets before going to the out gate, incase of drag bubbles etc

fly safe
Soloman Jackson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2016-10-19 20:56:04 UTC
Forget sneaking past gate camps. Scan down a wormhole or find out where Thera holes are and use w-space to enter and exit null.

The advantages are that you avoid gate camps and while in w-space you don't appear in local chat, avoiding any intel channels.

https://www.eve-scout.com/ Use this site to find Thera. It is the easiest way in and out of Null.

o7

“The cold stars spun to the ancient rhythm, the august march of an everlasting symphony. They are old, the stars, and their memory is long.” -Rick Yancey

Aurora Aetern
Brittas Empire
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2016-10-19 20:57:24 UTC
Right, I know where you're coming from there, explorer myself. Yes. Covops cloak will enable you to hit your prop mod then cloak immediately like the mwd trick just without the negative speed modifier. Best thing to avoid gate camps? Scout ahead. Otherwise burn away from the enemies and to the closest edge of the bubble. Astero has really good agility but a good hate camp will get you no matter what. When I see a gate camp you need to not panic, check solar map for bodies to warp to, know which one you're going to and don't spend more than one cycle uncloaked.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#5 - 2016-10-19 21:03:07 UTC
Muroka Motsu wrote:
I'm an explorer, here's my record of losses: https://zkillboard.com/character/96805673/

I regret them, but none of them were as costly as losing my first Astero. Admittedly, my skills were a bit on the low side to be piloting it, and they probably still are. But I have another one, I'm a couple days away from Cloaking IV, and I plan to start flying it pretty soon. I was wondering if anyone has any tips for surviving in the Astero with the covert ops cloak. I will be going into null, scanning, and then hopefully sneaking past gate camps to get back out. I'll be sneaking past gate camps going in and out.

I want to know what this will be like before it happens, if it's possible. Earlier today I jumped into a system and the gate had a warp bubble around it. I cloaked using my prototype cloaking device, and creeped toward the edge of the bubble. But the interdictor camping the gate got close, decloaked me, and it was all over. With the Astero, will this still be a danger? Or would I have been able to cloak and then get away much faster, i.e. no speed reduction?

I know this is how it's supposed to work, but I just want to hear someone confirm it before I undock in this thing. I am flying something I can't really afford to lose, and I'm taking the risk because I don't have a lot of other options right now.

Thanks,

Muroka


1. You using a prototype cloak in an astero. Don't fly astero if you can't fit a covops.
2. Don't fly the astero right now. You have other options. Stay out of NULL entirely if you don't have a way to get past bubble camps reliably. Practice getting past bubbles in your rookie ship. Rookie ship + protoype is a lot cheaper to lose while you practice getting past the camps.
3. Use your racial explo frigate. There is no real difference between fitting a prototype cloak on an astero and fitting a prototype cloak on a explo frigate.

Really, for now I suggest sticking to WH space or LS if you want to explo until you can afford to fly the astero, and lose it.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Barnabas Fresante
Jack Trades Unlimited
#6 - 2016-10-20 01:29:38 UTC
I would agree with everything above. Avoid gatecamps by traveling in via wormholes, which can be fun exploration all it's own. Learn to use your d-scan so that you can warp to a celestial close to your intended exit jump gate so you can see if there are bubbles set up there. Then when you're actively probing and hacking sites, decide how careful you want to go. For instance, if you're sitting in your safe spot all cloaked up scanning signatures down, consider pulling your probes in if someone jumps into the system (because obviously you aren't probing in an already inhabited system, right?)... because if you have an explorer hunter pop in and he sees core scan probes on his d-scan... well, he'll go to work on you. And of course, glance at local every 3 seconds or so when you are actively hacking a can!
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#7 - 2016-10-20 01:34:49 UTC
You can drag/drop modules, and what I do is set my cloak to F1, MWD to F2 and probe launcher to F3. If I run into a camp, I double click in space and slam all 3 buttons at the same time. I hope they have bad overviews so my core scanner probes act like a smokescreen and at the same time I'm cloaking and burning in a random direction to escape. Good Sabre pilots get close but I never get caught. Cool

The only thing I would 'require' about an Astero is Cloaking IV. But good on you for trying Smile You will go far with your attitude.

@lunettelulu7

Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
#8 - 2016-10-20 04:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Pelletier
Rule #1: fit MWD

Rule #2: if you can't fit a covops cloak then use the T2 one. NOT the prototype, just don't. No matter what people tell you

Rule #3: align (or double click in a direction in case of a bubble), cloak FIRST and THEN hit MWD. This shortens the time you're uncloaked. If you have covops cloak and aren't in a bubble don't use MWD, this will only lengthen your align time

Rule #4: if in a bubble take your time to figure out what exit vector you're going to use, gate cloak lasts 60 seconds and isn't broken by proximity so no need to rush a decision. Find an angle that seems clear of ships and isn't an obvious one which they'll expect

Rule #5: if you can't find a clear exit out of a bubble then cloak and burn back to the gate you jumped in from and jump out again. Then decide to simply go elsewhere or jump in again hoping for a better jump in location

Rule #6: 2 seconds after you hit cloak you disappear from other's overview (they can't target you anymore the second you clicked cloak but overview has a delay), when in a bubble use that to slightly change your escape vector once those 2 seconds have passed, this makes it more difficult for an interceptor to predict where you are/will be. Can be useful if you're in a bubble and you expect some inty to uncloak you
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#9 - 2016-10-20 05:13:00 UTC
Vincent Pelletier wrote:
Rule #1: fit MWD

Rule #2: if you can't fit a covops cloak then use the T2 one. NOT the prototype, just don't. No matter what people tell you

Rule #3: align (or double click in a direction in case of a bubble), cloak FIRST and THEN hit MWD. This shortens the time you're uncloaked. If you have covops cloak and aren't in a bubble don't use MWD, this will only lengthen your align time

Rule #4: if in a bubble take your time to figure out what exit vector you're going to use, gate cloak lasts 60 seconds and isn't broken by proximity so no need to rush a decision. Find an angle that seems clear of ships and isn't an obvious one which they'll expect

Rule #5: if you can't find a clear exit out of a bubble then cloak and burn back to the gate you jumped in from and jump out again. Then decide to simply go elsewhere or jump in again hoping for a better jump in location

Rule #6: 2 seconds after you hit cloak you disappear from other's overview (they can't target you anymore the second you clicked cloak but overview has a delay), when in a bubble use that to slightly change your escape vector once those 2 seconds have passed, this makes it more difficult for an interceptor to predict where you are/will be. Can be useful if you're in a bubble and you expect some inty to uncloak you


All this, including make sure your cloak is on keybind F-1 preferably, makes it easy to make sure you hit the cloak correctly.
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-10-20 12:53:18 UTC
Fit look-unimportant tank.

T1 exploration frigates aren't very shiny.
If you "forget" to rename it, the guy who sees it on dscan would probably think you're a newbie and is less likely to try to pounce.

With an Astero, you stop looking unimportant and are more interesting to kill.

A signature :o

Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2016-10-20 13:57:28 UTC
Vincent Pelletier wrote:
Rule #6: ...slightly change your escape vector once those 2 seconds have passed, this makes it more difficult for an interceptor to predict where you are/will be...

I see variations of this rule quoted often and it is plain wrong. Makes me think the people are just copy/pasting a set of rules they read elsewhere and have never actually tried it.

When you traverse from gate to ship cloak you appear momentarily on the overview of the gate campers giving them just enough time to align and start approaching you. Basically, they just dash into the general area and hope to get lucky and if not they start running a box search path starting in the obvious direction, towards the nearest bubble edge. They do not have time while you are decloaked to zoom in, view your ship and determine the escape vector. In fact I doubt your ship even settles on the escape vector before you blink out of sight.

Therefore to start aligning in one direction, then change direction after you have gone to cloak, actually makes it more likely the camper will decloak you. Because your speed is reduced significantly, even coming to a dead stop, when changing direction. Thus you are going to be closer to the start point when the camper reaches it. This is particularly bad when using a non Covert cloak and the MWD trick.

So pick your escape vector and then stick to it. Ideally pick a vector that is at a 90 degree angle from the path that the nearest/fastest camper is going to approach on. He is most likely going to burn through your start point, another Km on and then turn towards the bubble edge. Hope you get far enough away that you are out of range when he arrives, but plan your exit to avoid his initial search loop on the second pass.
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-10-20 14:26:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Lollipops
I tell you a basic rule I learned in wormholes.

When you enter a wormhole and scan the place, everyone in dscan range will see you are scanning, it leads to a simple consequence, when you warp to the relic or data site:

- Other players didn't scan the site yet----- if you are careful you will see their probes and decide if to risk your ship or not ( but better to run away....)

- Others already scanned the site and warped to it on a stealth combat ship to wait the good moment to kill you----- unless you are very quick to see when they appear on grid or if they are slow to target/scram/web etc, you are dead. Simply accept it, try to escape in the pod and don't whine on mail/local because none will have any mercy for you.

You can do some intel when you jump in a WH, using Zkills and so on but you can basically be a prey if someone lives there/was there before you.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#13 - 2016-10-20 15:15:52 UTC
Major Trant wrote:

Therefore to start aligning in one direction, then change direction after you have gone to cloak, actually makes it more likely the camper will decloak you. Because your speed is reduced significantly, even coming to a dead stop, when changing direction. Thus you are going to be closer to the start point when the camper reaches it. This is particularly bad when using a non Covert cloak and the MWD trick.

So pick your escape vector and then stick to it. Ideally pick a vector that is at a 90 degree angle from the path that the nearest/fastest camper is going to approach on. He is most likely going to burn through your start point, another Km on and then turn towards the bubble edge. Hope you get far enough away that you are out of range when he arrives, but plan your exit to avoid his initial search loop on the second pass.


Bold added. But I'll disagree with stick to it. Pick your escape route and monitor it. Turn on the tactical overlay and use it to determine if the enemy ships are approaching too close. IF you determine they actually will approach too close, ONLY THEN change direction. Also, don't forget the ability to use the look function to determine exactly where the enemy ship is pointed. The more skilled you are at this, the larger the bubble camps you can get through.

Snaking out of a bubble camp that has more ships than fits in my overlay and keeping them about 5-3k distant was one of my more memorable experiences. Tactical overlay was essential.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
#14 - 2016-10-20 18:01:12 UTC
Major Trant wrote:
Therefore to start aligning in one direction, then change direction after you have gone to cloak, actually makes it more likely the camper will decloak you. Because your speed is reduced significantly, even coming to a dead stop, when changing direction.


No. First of all "dead stop" is hilarious, that would assume doing a 180 which no one implied and is just strawmanning.


More importantly, lets look at the facts:

- you can still activate a module 3 seconds after cloaking but that's dangerously close to what's possible, combine that with lag and the stress/pressure of imminent death and it's much safer to use 2 seconds instead of 3. But lets use worst case scenario here: 1 second after cloaking you hit MWD.

- as stated, 2 seconds after cloaking you disappear from overview, so 1 second into the MWD cycle you want to change direction. the direction change doesn't need to be huge, especially not because it still happens very early on so any, say, 30 degree change is going to result in a huge difference at the end of MWD cycle

- given that 30 degrees, lets assume it takes 1 second for the frigate to make that change which, given that it's still fairly early on and speed isn't that huge yet is realistic.

- that leaves 10 (full MWD cycle) -1 (cloak activatation) - 1 (2nd second to get removed from overview) -1 (realign time "wasted") = 7 second of MWD cycle left. Any slightly non-**** fit Heron (not exactly a fast one) with any decent skills is going to get to full speed just fine in those 7 seconds.

- that means that all that you've lost is a tidbit of acceleration in the middle of the mwd cycle and a bit time of full speed at the end. This all assumes you activated MWD 1 second after cloak which is sub par, if you do it 2 seconds after cloaking it's even less of a problem



Not the end of the world and not enough cause real trouble in that regard, it's certainly not a "dead stop" as you suggest. Well worth it if you suspect the inty pilot to be non-**** and predict your vector.


Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2016-10-21 09:00:00 UTC
Vincent Pelletier wrote:
Major Trant wrote:
Therefore to start aligning in one direction, then change direction after you have gone to cloak, actually makes it more likely the camper will decloak you. Because your speed is reduced significantly, even coming to a dead stop, when changing direction.


No. First of all "dead stop" is hilarious, that would assume doing a 180 which no one implied and is just strawmanning.


More importantly, lets look at the facts:

- you can still activate a module 3 seconds after cloaking but that's dangerously close to what's possible, combine that with lag and the stress/pressure of imminent death and it's much safer to use 2 seconds instead of 3. But lets use worst case scenario here: 1 second after cloaking you hit MWD.

- as stated, 2 seconds after cloaking you disappear from overview, so 1 second into the MWD cycle you want to change direction. the direction change doesn't need to be huge, especially not because it still happens very early on so any, say, 30 degree change is going to result in a huge difference at the end of MWD cycle

- given that 30 degrees, lets assume it takes 1 second for the frigate to make that change which, given that it's still fairly early on and speed isn't that huge yet is realistic.

- that leaves 10 (full MWD cycle) -1 (cloak activatation) - 1 (2nd second to get removed from overview) -1 (realign time "wasted") = 7 second of MWD cycle left. Any slightly non-**** fit Heron (not exactly a fast one) with any decent skills is going to get to full speed just fine in those 7 seconds.

- that means that all that you've lost is a tidbit of acceleration in the middle of the mwd cycle and a bit time of full speed at the end. This all assumes you activated MWD 1 second after cloak which is sub par, if you do it 2 seconds after cloaking it's even less of a problem

Not the end of the world and not enough cause real trouble in that regard, it's certainly not a "dead stop" as you suggest. Well worth it if you suspect the inty pilot to be non-**** and predict your vector.

...and you have gained what exactly, by carrying out this manouvour?

It is ridiculous to suggest that getting away from the start point is a trivial or unimportant exercise or that you have one or more seconds to spare. Every second is vital!

My point is that no inty pilot is seeing your escape vector in that brief glimse and plotting his course accordingly. He might guess the direction you are going to burn, but he isn't seeing it. So changing direction is at best pointless. I would dispute your figures, but then you would just dispute mine. The actual figures are meaningless, there is simply nothing to be gained and potentially everything to be lost by changing direction.
Falkenberg Roenning
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2016-10-21 09:35:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Falkenberg Roenning
nvm, borked morning reading disabilities
Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
#17 - 2016-10-21 14:05:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Pelletier
Major Trant wrote:
My point is that no inty pilot is seeing your escape vector in that brief glimse and plotting his course accordingly.


...

Ofcourse it's possible!


People kept saying it in the fleets I was in but when I then switched from my covops into an inty going "ffs, stop sucking" we suddenly started to catch cloakers. Not all, obviously, but a large enough percentage to clearly show that it IS possible... if you don't suck, give it all some thought and prepare properly. I'm not super special, just not ****.

This discussion is no different from some newbie or carebear going "it's impossible to win in PVP", and people who have clue reply with "ofcourse it's possible, if you just would start to put in effort, use your braincells and practise a lot".