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Dev blog: Skill level complete - A new character sheet for EVE Online

First post First post
Author
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#81 - 2016-10-15 11:55:57 UTC
Vald Tegor wrote:
Here is a side by side comparison of the old and the new in default configuration. Note that I run 4 characters on my secondary monitor tiled like this (and would love to be able to shrink the window more to have no overlaps. Literally unplayable).


That picture shows nicely why I like the new character sheet better than the old one: I absolutely hate it when I have to switch between different windows like this. Integrating both windows into one is something I have always wished for concerning the skill queue.

Also, I've mostly stretched the old view up to be as large as the new one in default, since I can't see a thing in those tiny old windows and I found this always obnoxious. I was always asking myself: "Why is the game giving me those tiny windows I have to enlarge manually back to normal size? Is this configured for people with tiny 7" screens playing EVE on their 70s computers?"

It's nice CCP finally remembered we have 2016 now and ancient computers from the time of Ancient Egypt shouldn't be the default assumption for the UI anymore.
Wilm0rien
Omicron Project
The Bastion
#82 - 2016-10-15 12:18:26 UTC
Rainus Max wrote:
It looks great but a few suggestions/queries:

Can we get an option to hide the Alpha/Omega tags - as an omega and almost certainly going to remain that way I don't care what isn't usable by alphas



yes! please!
Chris Corsten
Drift.Monkeys
Valkyrie Alliance
#83 - 2016-10-15 19:56:51 UTC
I really like the new UI for the Skills.
Also the additional Information compared to the old one is pretty nice.

But there is one Aspect, that kills my entire Experience with this new Design.
And this one thing is, that the Skill Queue itself is now located at the bottom. I want this thing, just like in the old Version, on the right side.
I am playing with an 16:9 Monitor, and my Monitor stands in a horizontal way on my Desk.
If i would use my Monitor vertical, i can fully understand that it is located at the bottom.
But for gods sake, why do you want to waste this extra horizontal Room and force me to collapse the Player Portrait, and regulate the Bar between the Skills Groups and the Skill Queue whenever i need the specific Information for a Skill/the actual Skill Queue ? I am losing the Overview over my Skill Queue, wich is the most important Information i need when i am adding Skills/modifying my Skill Queue.
You want to reduce my Interaction with the UI, but with this change you are doing exactly the opposite.

You are destroying my Experience with this new Layout so perfect, I couln't have done it better myself.
So please, at least add an Option so that we may get the Skill Queue to the right side again, and I am happy.
Just like this SkillQueue on right Side
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#84 - 2016-10-16 20:37:09 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Vald Tegor wrote:
Here is a side by side comparison of the old and the new in default configuration. Note that I run 4 characters on my secondary monitor tiled like this (and would love to be able to shrink the window more to have no overlaps. Literally unplayable).

Try this tool that allows you to make and switch between "preview" displays of multiple clients: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=389086.

I don't use it myself as I have a video wall for my clients, but this tool was created by a corpmate of mine and I've heard various players sing its praises.

That looks interesting and I'll give it a try. But the legality of it hinges on the lack of interactivity with the windows, which i suspect will make it less functional than my current setup.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#85 - 2016-10-16 20:48:53 UTC
Chris Corsten wrote:

But for gods sake, why do you want to waste this extra horizontal Room and force me to collapse the Player Portrait, and regulate the Bar between the Skills Groups and the Skill Queue whenever i need the specific Information for a Skill/the actual Skill Queue ? I am losing the Overview over my Skill Queue, wich is the most important Information i need when i am adding Skills/modifying my Skill Queue.
You want to reduce my Interaction with the UI, but with this change you are doing exactly the opposite.

Honestly, when I look at it the interface seems like it was designed specifically for Alpha clone usage. As in, you might have 4-5 skills at most, which puts you at the 24 hour cap for Alpha queues.

Now try incorporating a new skill on an omega clone with a 300 day plan of 50 skills.
Then try re-arranging them twice a day as you change clones.

At the very least, if you intend on keeping this design as is, allow us to drag the skills tab into a separate window that is more manageable for Omega use.
Soleil Fournier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2016-10-17 11:14:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
Nice updates so far.


Please list skill categories alphabetically. Right now it's based on most skillpoints, but alphabetically is better. Reason being you automatically know where to look for a category when it's alphabetical, but you probably wont have your highest skills memorized and will have to search harder to find a specific category.

Don't like that untrained levels were reverted back to shaded boxes. The bullet points for untrained levels worked great while we had them, they were much easier to understand.

More differentiation is needed between untrained skills plugged into your head and those that aren't in your head. Coloring the titles seems like a good solution.

Under skill selection (All skills, My skills, can train now) add an "Alpha skills" option.

It would be great if we could move sub-tabs around by drag and drop. IE I'd like to move 'attributes' to be the first tab listed on the left. Drag and drop allows players to customize based on personal preference.
Soleil Fournier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2016-10-17 11:25:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
Also, when you click on a category, please add trained skill point totals next to the "all skills" selection. That way we don't have to hover for the tooltip to see the total for that category.


Omega toons are still getting "extend omega" spam when clicking on ship preview in the market.
Goati
Doomheim
#88 - 2016-10-17 13:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Goati
How the heck do i access my skills? All i get is this abomination take up most of my screen. I want to check through my skills.

Think i found how to do it, horrible.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#89 - 2016-10-17 23:12:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Vald Tegor
Owen Levanth wrote:

That picture shows nicely why I like the new character sheet better than the old one: I absolutely hate it when I have to switch between different windows like this. Integrating both windows into one is something I have always wished for concerning the skill queue.

I can certainly appreciate your position.

However, when you want to change something in your skill queue, there is currently absolutely no reason to open the character sheet! You click the little progress bar below the character icon on your neocom. This opens the skill queue window only, which contains all the information you need.

The only reasons to open the skill list in the character sheet in the current UI are:
- Looking at the list of skills not yet injected. I currently use this most to right click > view market when shopping for skillbooks.
- Applying unallocated skill points to a particular skill, rather than the skill(s) currently at the front of your queue.

Which brings me to another point. Having unallocated SP on the character adds YET ANOTHER horizontal bar that takes vertical space, listing the number of SP and an Aplly Skill Points button.

The apply skill points button could maybe use a tooltip that it will dump points based on skills in queue. A new player should perhaps be made aware these are best used on skills opposite of your neural remap/implants, saving more training time per point spent.

What happened to the skillpoint total/next level listed by each skill, and the skill multiplier?
I can no longer tell at a glance how many SP i need to inject to take the skill up another level - in particular for a partially trained skill. How many hours it will take to train, in my current jump clone, is woefully inadequate information.

Edit: The display for partially trained skills not currently in your queue is also bad. It only shows a half white half gray triange instead of the progress bar and sp count, and the optional yellow highlighting for them appears to be missing.

Long skills have been modified to show ex: 1mo 6d 17h 24m
I personally dislike this and would prefer at least an option to see a total number of days. It is also only present on the skill categories, but not the queue element. The completion date and total training time of the queue have also been removed, both of which are useful with alpha 24h restrictions and skill overflow. (This was moved to the Start Training button when a queue is active)

In the current training queue interface, adding say a level 3 skill to level 4. Unlike the character sheet itself, the skill list on the left now shows the training time for the skill from 4-5 without having to add it to the queue and check the time estimate there. I find this very useful. Not only that, but adding say Mechanics 3, 4 and 5 to my skill queue in the new interface shades the latter three boxes blue - while continuing to show a 3h 40m estimate. This is not only relatively useless information (the duration of the already queued, first skill level is down in... the queue...) but it is misleading.

Owen Levanth wrote:

Also, I've mostly stretched the old view up to be as large as the new one in default, since I can't see a thing in those tiny old windows and I found this always obnoxious. I was always asking myself: "Why is the game giving me those tiny windows I have to enlarge manually back to normal size?

I also stretch the Training Queue window. So that I can see at least 15 of the 50 skills in my queue at a time.

With the new character sheet, hiding the header and compacting to "guess a skill category", I can see all of 7-9 depending on interface scaling and how many skills in a category i want visible. Now imagine moving all 5 levels of a skill in font of 5 levels of another skill queued before it, and having to scroll the list every two drags. Now put 20 skills between the two.

Owen Levanth wrote:
Is this configured for people with tiny 7" screens playing EVE on their 70s computers?"

It's nice CCP finally remembered we have 2016 now and ancient computers from the time of Ancient Egypt shouldn't be the default assumption for the UI anymore.

Nope, they play on all sorts of monitors and TVs. Many of which can still only display high definition graphics at 720p.

This means, as was posted before, the entire screen gives you 720 vertical pixels to work with for a default interface. My tiny windows - not at all uncommon in a game that sees people playing multiple characters at once - are only 20 pixels shorter than that.

People aren't playing on their 70's computers. But some people still use their 90's 27" 4:3 CRT monitors for gaming. They are capable of much higher resolutions than your modern day standard widescreen 1920x1080 displays and are more responsive. The new ui might be quite usable on those.

While it certainly is 2016 and 4k is a thing, it's not 2026 and they are not the standard.

With 2160 vertical pixels you're in the ballpark of vertical space that old monitor offered. I have also seen many complaints from people that do use them, that the UI is too small. The EvE interface is lacking in scaling options, both to make it larger and smaller. But making the new interface inefficient and frustrating to use for the intended task is not a solution to that. I would like to see interface scaling intervals go as low as 50% and as high as 200%. I would say even adding more global scaling options is not enough - that should be the default for new windows. Each element should then be individually re-scaleable via right click drop down, with its own transparency settings defaulting to General Setting > Window Appearance > Transparency.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2016-10-17 23:48:34 UTC
The vitriol on display here isn't particularly constructive. What was the last time someone yelled at you that your work product sucked and it made you want to do better? So I'm going to try some constructive criticism based on my first usage. Oh, and my overall experience has been good, but there were some minor annoyances that I hope can be addressed if they prove universal.

* Character portrait is nice except that the aliasing is really bad. I've tried various anti-aliasing settings and they all seem to produce a somewhat uglier result than what we currently have.
* The icons are nice in the skill groups area. Collapsing is also nice. I found the lines that covered skill points, levels trained and certificates claimed a little too tight to be readable. I was having trouble parsing them. Perhaps if they had a little more space and the numbers were right aligned.
* I like that we can still get to certificates, but they were a little hard to find (short term problem), but the UI for switching them felt a little cumbersome. I felt like I couldn't really see all my certificates nor could I easily see what certificates were in what groups.
* The numbers next to each group for certificates weren't immediately intuitive. I eventually figured it out, but a tooltip might help there.
* Loved the icons and animation effects for the skill queue. One thing I noticed is that the icon used for ships is the old icon and not the new one. I think the new one would be clearer to new players.
* Once skills are in the skill queue, it would be nice if the tooltip included their attributes. I understand that may be difficult if you need to use the same tooltip everywhere.

Thanks for all the great work.
BoomBoss
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#91 - 2016-10-18 09:07:52 UTC
What happened with "Don't fix if it isn't broken"?

I don't like the new UI. Spent 15 minutes figuring out how that skill queue worked.
Marius Darkan
Southern Cross Monopoly
Flying Dangerous
#92 - 2016-10-18 13:24:36 UTC
Potentially unrelated and silly question, whats the "spider" ship on the 3rd image next to the maulus...?

Liking the new ui ideas btw
Amarisen Gream
Pleasant Peninsula Productions
Order of Allied Knights
#93 - 2016-10-18 19:29:21 UTC
Is it to late to ask for a way to filter skills by attributes?

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

Nosum Hseebnrido
Interregnum.
#94 - 2016-10-19 05:28:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Nosum Hseebnrido
I found two minor bugs:
1. If we have injected skill between 0-4 lvl, and same skill in hangar the pop-up of this skillbook will have "add to queue".
2. If we resize side edge of character sheet window(a few times increase and decrease) our character face deforms unrealistically(slim vs fat), and sometimes text that is on right column of skill tree category(long like "Planet Management") overlaps over the character sheet window.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Nosum_Hseebnrido

Soleil Fournier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2016-10-19 10:12:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
Please allow us to hide skills plugged into your head but have 0 skillpoints trained into them.
ACESsiggy
The Scope
#96 - 2016-10-20 02:55:45 UTC
Enjoyed checking out the new character sheet on the test server. Some cool features/updates in the coming weeks!

“The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.”

ACESsiggy
The Scope
#97 - 2016-10-20 02:57:14 UTC
BoomBoss wrote:
What happened with "Don't fix if it isn't broken"?

I don't like the new UI. Spent 15 minutes figuring out how that skill queue worked.




Lmao😁

“The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.”

Nosum Hseebnrido
Interregnum.
#98 - 2016-10-20 04:39:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Nosum Hseebnrido
Bugs:
1. If player will log in on character with no skills in queue, all numbers defining time, that are below skill queue bar are in the same place(left corner of character sheet window)overlapping on each other. They coming back to original place when we gone start up skilling process.
2. Skill list is always showing time we need to skill up next level(from level we currently have), no matter how many levels of that skill we will add to the queue, it always showing same time.
3. Somehow I have 4 columns of skills on my main character, and only 2 on alts - I suspect that this is intended way of optimizations, divide players on groups with same amount of sp so they will not have a mess on they character sheets. It is good idea but if new player will filter out to see all skills he will have twice bigger skills list.

Suggestion:
When I used for the firs time Skins section of character sheet, on old UI I realize that "view market details" do not refer to skin itself but to ship after buying 15 of them. Could you please make it more simpler for player to find skin he want to buy on market/Aurum shop while using Skins section of character sheet window?

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Nosum_Hseebnrido

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#99 - 2016-10-20 07:00:23 UTC
Pop up info windows with the inject skill button still acting up.

Will there be an access character photo, in a larger window, option on the NEOCOM?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Nosum Hseebnrido
Interregnum.
#100 - 2016-10-21 04:36:48 UTC
All top character sheet window buttons pop-up are not up to date("Skills" button says something about "(...)skill training history").

On old UI, player had option to open group of skills( like gunnery) in new window. If you planning to get rid of it or somehow transform it, do not forget about jump clones list with have same option(now on sisi as well).

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Nosum_Hseebnrido