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New Feature - Drone Aggro Notification
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Francis Raven
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#1 - 2016-10-17 15:45:01 UTC
Drone Aggro Notification


This feature would allow players to see individually which drones (sentries, lights, etc...) are being targeted from their UI. This would have the same yellow boxing animation that players get in their Overview when their ship is being tareted.

Idea Feature
"Yellow boxing" square next to the name individually deployed drone in the "drones in space" box. This yellow boxing animation pops up once rats/players begin targeting drone.

As an extra, if you hover over the "yellowboxing" animation, you get the name of the player targeting that specific drone. This portion of the feature is "meh" in my eyes, but keeps things consistent.

Why
Helps to know when players need to pull drones back, or who to target with their drones next.

Possible Reason why not to do this feature
I acknowledged that drones dying are a isk-sink, which CCP likes. Implementing this feature would make it easier to keep drones alive.



What are your thoughts on this? I did a bit of research (albeit quickly) and haven't found an idea for a similar feature. I hope I articulated this idea well.




ExDominion | Nullsec Corporation | Website | Forums | Established Nov. 2015 |

Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2016-10-18 07:01:22 UTC
Drones taking damage --> pull
Drones don´t take damage --> leave

I mean really why would you need a feature for that, play active or risk loosing some of your drones.

-1
Francis Raven
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#3 - 2016-10-18 12:46:45 UTC
Tabyll Altol wrote:
Drones taking damage --> pull
Drones don´t take damage --> leave

I mean really why would you need a feature for that, play active or risk loosing some of your drones.

-1


You would need to play active in order to notice the lock-on animation, no? What are you talking about?
I dont afk unless in station. Drones still die excessively - especially out over 50k range.

ExDominion | Nullsec Corporation | Website | Forums | Established Nov. 2015 |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-10-18 13:11:55 UTC
Francis Raven wrote:
Tabyll Altol wrote:
Drones taking damage --> pull
Drones don´t take damage --> leave

I mean really why would you need a feature for that, play active or risk loosing some of your drones.

-1


You would need to play active in order to notice the lock-on animation, no? What are you talking about?
I dont afk unless in station. Drones still die excessively - especially out over 50k range.



Sending drones out over 50km is just bad piloting in anything but combat sites in hisec. The travel time alone to retrieve a drone and then get another one back on target takes 20-50% of your firepower out of the fight. If you really need to send them out further then I suggest faction drones with a gila or rattlesnake. At least then they would get back to you before going pop
Cade Windstalker
#5 - 2016-10-18 14:02:56 UTC
Rats will routinely maintain multiple targets, so knowing that your drone is yellow-boxed isn't really going to be as useful as you might think.

In general I'm not opposed to the idea, but I think there are better things for CCP to spend their time on, especially since you're talking about wiring Overview functionality into another window, and from what little we know about Eve's UI the Overview is an ancient piece of core code and does not play nicely with other components.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6 - 2016-10-18 14:35:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Drones are meant to be vulnerable when out and especially when you send them afar. When the npc ai was changed to attack drones more often it added a (small) challenge to an otherwise one-dimensional and utterly mindnumbing activity. This was great.

This would be a step back to making combat more monotonous (see yellow box -> recall drones). This is doubly so when npc's will target things as soon as they can, even long before they are in range to engage, and will never be smart enough to delay a lock to avoid giving themselves away. And during pvp it can take a larger ship a long time to lock a drone. Is it fair to give a drone user that much of a warning to pull drones only to then instantly poop them out again, forcing the target to start locking again? In fact, will it be at all practical to target drones at all with this? It makes them much harder to counter even with your own drones.

Why not instead learn to anticipate when your drones are going to be attacked and by what enemies. Learn to use your drones despite the bad guys best efforts to counter them. And be watchful of enemies making their way to your drones rather than you.

It separates good players from bad. The attentive from the lazy. The sharp from the numb. More information is not good all the time.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-10-18 14:51:17 UTC
Actually I'd like something akin to this as a carrier pilot so I can target back the relevant fighters which are shooting at mine but I'm damned as to think of a good way to get it into the UI.

Finding the right fighters out of potentially 300-500+ on overview is...well it's the stuff of lottery wins, isn't it?
Francis Raven
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2016-10-18 15:25:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Francis Raven
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Drones are meant to be vulnerable when out and especially when you send them afar. When the npc ai was changed to attack drones more often it added a (small) challenge to an otherwise one-dimensional and utterly mindnumbing activity. This was great.

This would be a step back to making combat more monotonous (see yellow box -> recall drones). This is doubly so when npc's will target things as soon as they can, even long before they are in range to engage, and will never be smart enough to delay a lock to avoid giving themselves away. And during pvp it can take a larger ship a long time to lock a drone. Is it fair to give a drone user that much of a warning to pull drones only to then instantly poop them out again, forcing the target to start locking again? In fact, will it be at all practical to target drones at all with this? It makes them much harder to counter even with your own drones.

Why not instead learn to anticipate when your drones are going to be attacked and by what enemies. Learn to use your drones despite the bad guys best efforts to counter them. And be watchful of enemies making their way to your drones rather than you.

It separates good players from bad. The attentive from the lazy. The sharp from the numb. More information is not good all the time.



"Oh hey, Vespa II #4 is most likely to get targeted by XX cruiser... better pull it back now". That point doesn't really make sense - especially not in a PVE setting. Rats orbit, and if you're in the thick of it with your drones, its difficult to tell, especially when fighting tens of rats in a mission pocket.

I dont think its about good players vs. bad players. It's about a quality of life improvement. I agree with the changes to the AI which made NPC attack drones more often and I think they are great. It keeps you on your toes. However, how can you be sure NPCs dont attack drones right after targeting them. There's no way to tell yet 0.o

If the aggro marker for drones are added in, a pilot can more easily keep an eye on the health bars of said drone and pull back as they begin to take damage, as opposed to scanning over all drones and waiting for one of them to start losing health. If a pilot chooses to pull back drones as soon as they are targeted, before they start taking damage, then they potential dps.

Good points with the PVP example.

I dont know much about carrier flying, but Im sure something like this would be useful, as mentioned by Morrigan.

Again, its a tool - EVE is all about giving players a ton of info. More info is always better.

ExDominion | Nullsec Corporation | Website | Forums | Established Nov. 2015 |

Cade Windstalker
#9 - 2016-10-18 21:19:16 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Actually I'd like something akin to this as a carrier pilot so I can target back the relevant fighters which are shooting at mine but I'm damned as to think of a good way to get it into the UI.

Finding the right fighters out of potentially 300-500+ on overview is...well it's the stuff of lottery wins, isn't it?


I think what you probably want is an Overview filter option that's something along the lines of "Things targeting my drones/Fighters" so you can swap to that overview tab and only show those targets.

Alternatively maybe add a "Remote Effect" popup for fighter/drone aggro with its accompanying dropdown of targets?
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#10 - 2016-10-18 22:00:23 UTC
Francis Raven wrote:
Tabyll Altol wrote:
Drones taking damage --> pull
Drones don´t take damage --> leave

I mean really why would you need a feature for that, play active or risk loosing some of your drones.

-1


You would need to play active in order to notice the lock-on animation, no? What are you talking about?
I dont afk unless in station. Drones still die excessively - especially out over 50k range.


Promoting afk play. Solution: Biomass

And, it's already in client. The NPCs stop shooting and unlock you, just pay attention like everyone else.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#11 - 2016-10-19 00:14:46 UTC
You are most certainly able to tell when npc's are going for your drones in a mission (especially if your drones are 50km away). There are also animations for every attack made by an npc you can look out for. I also know which rats are more likely to target my drones. I know this from experience and can pass this knowledge onto players that interact with me.

Don't know how you can say this doesn't separate good pilots from bad when there is clearly a gap between me and you just for a start. And your idea makes what i know over you useless!

More info is always better?
Some extreme examples:
- Show info shows a ships load out.
- Count down and position pop up on your hud that shows when and where enemy ships land.
- Knowing when your enemy super caps log on (hint hint)
- Knowing the moment an enemy enters the same system as you (hint hint)

All these give away info about what the enemy is doing. You think we should know it all? Of course not!

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#12 - 2016-10-19 03:09:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Francis Raven wrote:
Tabyll Altol wrote:
Drones taking damage --> pull
Drones don´t take damage --> leave

I mean really why would you need a feature for that, play active or risk loosing some of your drones.

-1


You would need to play active in order to notice the lock-on animation, no? What are you talking about?
I dont afk unless in station. Drones still die excessively - especially out over 50k range.




Do this:

1. Max drone durability
2. Faction drones
3. Run Drone navi comp II
4. Don't run that far out unless you know they won't die

1 and 2....gets you longer lived drones. Generally by the time you see you drones get the aggro seeing what is attacking them is pointless. You get seconds to see how bad the damage is and make the call to recall. Like me in rattler. Heavies on BS A. BS B has targeted them (sansha for an easy example...you can see the lasers not going for you, at least with a rapid heavy setup since you are 60 kms or less generally). Stop the attack on A to hit B fresh? chances good with travel time and the new target grind if not recalled drones will be dead.



1 and 2 gives me a few seconds more to push that BS kill. then I recall if its another bs is hitting them. this why I carry 2 sets of heavies on my rattle snake. Recall the 2, push out the 2 fresh ones. Rinse lather repeat as they get banged up.

faction drones can be a dps loss (versus T2) you can debate on blowing that off. Its generally 50ish for ones I looked at. BUt...faction drones get better tracking. Enters your next debate. Do you like applied damage more? Applied damage with a very healthy EHP boost.


3. gets your drones moving faster. Faster time to target to get the dps on target one benefit. Also faster gtfo speed when aggro hits..

4. Some rats tend to not pay attention to drones as much. I can and have dropped my heavies and never recalled my heavies in AE even on wave refreshes. Angels rarely go for my drones so far. Now blood raiders...I tbh go in my tengu most times since they are on my drones like white on rice. I even think about dropping drones they start taking damage in the drone bay the (probably bad) joke I make about blood rats. Gurista are not drone kill happy as much (bit more than angels but not so bad). Sansha, mercs and rogue drones I am 50/50 with. I don't do faction missions, don't know how the 4 main races go here.

Take away is with angels I have run them out to even 60-70 not worried. With blood angels as mentioned...If I don't tengu these runs I am killing 50% of the stuff out at least with high slot weapons before drones drop. If drones dropped I am not sending them farther than 30 km's. At least until its down to just the blood BS'.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-10-19 11:01:22 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Francis Raven wrote:
Tabyll Altol wrote:
Drones taking damage --> pull
Drones don´t take damage --> leave

I mean really why would you need a feature for that, play active or risk loosing some of your drones.

-1


You would need to play active in order to notice the lock-on animation, no? What are you talking about?
I dont afk unless in station. Drones still die excessively - especially out over 50k range.




Do this:

1. Max drone durability
2. Faction drones
3. Run Drone navi comp II
4. Don't run that far out unless you know they won't die

1 and 2....gets you longer lived drones. Generally by the time you see you drones get the aggro seeing what is attacking them is pointless. You get seconds to see how bad the damage is and make the call to recall. Like me in rattler. Heavies on BS A. BS B has targeted them (sansha for an easy example...you can see the lasers not going for you, at least with a rapid heavy setup since you are 60 kms or less generally). Stop the attack on A to hit B fresh? chances good with travel time and the new target grind if not recalled drones will be dead.



1 and 2 gives me a few seconds more to push that BS kill. then I recall if its another bs is hitting them. this why I carry 2 sets of heavies on my rattle snake. Recall the 2, push out the 2 fresh ones. Rinse lather repeat as they get banged up.

faction drones can be a dps loss (versus T2) you can debate on blowing that off. Its generally 50ish for ones I looked at. BUt...faction drones get better tracking. Enters your next debate. Do you like applied damage more? Applied damage with a very healthy EHP boost.


3. gets your drones moving faster. Faster time to target to get the dps on target one benefit. Also faster gtfo speed when aggro hits..

4. Some rats tend to not pay attention to drones as much. I can and have dropped my heavies and never recalled my heavies in AE even on wave refreshes. Angels rarely go for my drones so far. Now blood raiders...I tbh go in my tengu most times since they are on my drones like white on rice. I even think about dropping drones they start taking damage in the drone bay the (probably bad) joke I make about blood rats. Gurista are not drone kill happy as much (bit more than angels but not so bad). Sansha, mercs and rogue drones I am 50/50 with. I don't do faction missions, don't know how the 4 main races go here.

Take away is with angels I have run them out to even 60-70 not worried. With blood angels as mentioned...If I don't tengu these runs I am killing 50% of the stuff out at least with high slot weapons before drones drop. If drones dropped I am not sending them farther than 30 km's. At least until its down to just the blood BS'.


I'm saving my rattlesnake for in our WH but find that the gila is awesome for combat site hunting when I'm in hisec. Great dps on the fed navy hammers, not too bad drone speed and they have the ehp of a small BC :D basically if I see a drone get to roughly 66% shield gone I recall and deploy the next. Gila has a big enough bay for 2 of each faction mediums too so you always have the right option avalable up front.

Probably the best ship I could recommend for a newer player too for hunting sites in hisec. Even with all faction tech I fittings it'd still be a beast.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-10-19 11:54:53 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Actually I'd like something akin to this as a carrier pilot so I can target back the relevant fighters which are shooting at mine but I'm damned as to think of a good way to get it into the UI.

Finding the right fighters out of potentially 300-500+ on overview is...well it's the stuff of lottery wins, isn't it?


I think what you probably want is an Overview filter option that's something along the lines of "Things targeting my drones/Fighters" so you can swap to that overview tab and only show those targets.

Alternatively maybe add a "Remote Effect" popup for fighter/drone aggro with its accompanying dropdown of targets?



Yeah that'd do. OPs main idea is poor but wouldn't be the first time something useful came from a bad beginning :)
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#15 - 2016-10-19 12:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
Beyond the mechanical and game play reasons already discussed, I'm also not too keen for this idea due to more lore-ish reasons.

Drones are semi-independent. While you can say "kill this thing", you can't control their speed or their angle of attack. You also aren't given a **specific "drone's eye view" window once launched (though that would be kinda cool even if resource intensive).

Since drones are supposed to semi-autonomous, the less full control the pilot has the more these weapons remain drones and not extra ships under the control of the pilot.

--Gadget (is not a drone... or a Cylon)







** Yes, I realize that a pilot can "look at" nearly anything including your drones... but you can also do the same for the enemy's drones.

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#16 - 2016-10-19 16:52:50 UTC
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
...just shortened the parts I agree on...

...but you can also do the same for the enemy's drones.



For the sake of gameplay I never say enemie. On any given field you have opponents or you have corporation / alliance red-marked opponents.
Most of those do not even know who you are and vice versa. Yet your corporation / alliance had a disagreement and marked each other in red or not at all.

In the latter case it is even harder to tell friend from foe but at least in low, null and w-space you know and your possible opponent knows what your / his intentions are.

Doesn't make you enemies however a fight or a not fight goes.

Unless you have real enemies, then disregard.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Sunwell
Bailiffs
Evictus.
#17 - 2016-10-19 16:58:16 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
...just shortened the parts I agree on...

...but you can also do the same for the enemy's drones.



For the sake of gameplay I never say enemie. On any given field you have opponents or you have corporation / alliance red-marked opponents.
Most of those do not even know who you are and vice versa. Yet your corporation / alliance had a disagreement and marked each other in red or not at all.

In the latter case it is even harder to tell friend from foe but at least in low, null and w-space you know and your possible opponent knows what your / his intentions are.

Doesn't make you enemies however a fight or a not fight goes.

Unless you have real enemies, then disregard.


Decent point!

Fighting against each other doesnt necessarily make you enemies. I've seen instances where people have been ganked and killed, only to have the ganker/killer join up with his victim in their fleet or corporation (or vice versa). I am sure this is commonly seen by other people as well.

However for the point of the thread, I believe the poster simply implied your target's drones, instead of "enemy's. "
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#18 - 2016-10-19 17:04:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
elitatwo wrote:


For the sake of gameplay I never say enemie. On any given field you have opponents or you have corporation / alliance red-marked opponents.
Most of those do not even know who you are and vice versa. Yet your corporation / alliance had a disagreement and marked each other in red or not at all.

In the latter case it is even harder to tell friend from foe but at least in low, null and w-space you know and your possible opponent knows what your / his intentions are.

Doesn't make you enemies however a fight or a not fight goes.

Unless you have real enemies, then disregard.


Sunwell wrote:
Decent point!

Fighting against each other doesnt necessarily make you enemies. I've seen instances where people have been ganked and killed, only to have the ganker/killer join up with his victim in their fleet or corporation (or vice versa). I am sure this is commonly seen by other people as well.

However for the point of the thread, I believe the poster simply implied your target's drones, instead of "enemy's. "


No Worries,

I was using "enemy" to mean opponent under the old military view of enemies, allies, and those-who-get-in-the-way.

--Gadget... usually in the way

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."