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"Sub" Faction ships

Author
Tiberius NoVegas
NovKor Corp.
#1 - 2016-10-18 19:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius NoVegas
Going through factions and realized that Gallante skills feed into 5 other faction ships. there are two Gallante+Minamtar Factions. I know this has been discussed in detail in the past but am i missing something on how CCP figures out who will be a flyable faction and what skills they require? There seems to be a lack of a pattern other then CCP is in love with Gallante. I had to break the factions down to get a better idea of how they broke up. I would like to see flyable ships to all factions in the future.

A big part of this post is my own love for Minmatar and Caldari metagame that lead me to training those two faction skills, only to learn i have no option for cross-over ships. This pretty much lead to me finding there are 7 options left for "sub" factions and most of them dont make any sense for a caldari+Minmatar pirate faction short of Thukker tribe, which even then is a stretch. What everyone else's thoughts on flying sub or pirate faction ships?

Stand Alone Factions (with sub-factions on right)
Caldari:---------Guristas, Mordu's, Sansha
Gallente:--------Angel, Guristas, Mordu's, Serpentis, SOE
Amarr:-----------Sansha, Blood Raiders, SOE
Minmatar:------Angel, Serpentis, Blood Raiders
ORE:------------(Industrial ships)
Jove Empire:--(Capsule)
The Society:---(Gnosis)
InterBus:--------(Special Edition Shuttle Exist)
Syndacate:-----(Zephyr)

"Sub" Factions
Angel Cartel:---------Gallante+Minmatar
Guristas Pirates:----Caldari+Gallante
Mordu's Legion:-----Caldari+Gallante
Sansha's Nation:---Amarr+Caldari
Serpentis:------------Gallante+Minmatar
Blood Raider:--------Amarr+Minmatar
Sisters of EVE:------Amarr+Gallante

Non-flyable Factions (so far)
Ammatar
Khanid Kingdom:---(Contributed to some Amarr ships)
Thukker Tribe:-------(Contributed to some Minmatar ships)
CONCORD
Lasisha Mishi
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2016-10-18 19:31:12 UTC
poke me when caldari/minmatar pirate faction comes out


#death to Gallente
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#3 - 2016-10-18 20:03:31 UTC
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
poke me when caldari/minmatar pirate faction comes out


Why should there be one.Straight

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Lasisha Mishi
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2016-10-18 20:20:23 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
poke me when caldari/minmatar pirate faction comes out


Why should there be one.Straight

cause its the only combo missing

Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#5 - 2016-10-18 20:24:18 UTC
Thukker Tribe ships, yo!

Guess which two races Gadget has trained.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."

Tiberius NoVegas
NovKor Corp.
#6 - 2016-10-18 20:29:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius NoVegas
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
poke me when caldari/minmatar pirate faction comes out


Why should there be one.Straight



I can answer this two ways.

1. It saddens and disgruntles me that there is no faction to fill this void.

2. The history behind Minmatar and Caldari have a common theme when it comes to self reliance and independence. Both shared a similar history with breaking free from a larger faction that controlled and "oppressed" them and empathy does come into effect with this in account. The Caldari were also making back door deals before they broke away from Gallante, this means they could have traded with Thukkar tribe or another faction prior to the Minimatar rebellion. This is a decent amount of history making a strong case for Caldari-Minmatar relationship but there a huge void where that should be.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#7 - 2016-10-18 20:41:30 UTC
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
poke me when caldari/minmatar pirate faction comes out


Why should there be one.Straight

cause its the only combo missing


Just because there is none it doesn't justify there should be one.

Tiberius NoVegas wrote:


2. The history behind Minmatar and Caldari have a common theme when it comes to self reliance and independence. Both shared a similar history with breaking free from a larger faction that controlled and "oppressed" them and empathy does come into affect with this in account. The Caldari were also making back door deals before they broke away from Gallante, this means they could have traded with Thukkar tribe or another faction prior to the Minimatar rebellion. This is a decent about of history making a strong case for Caldari-Minmatar relationship but there a huge void where that should be.


Similarities nothing beyond that

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Tiberius NoVegas
NovKor Corp.
#8 - 2016-10-19 06:44:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius NoVegas
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
[quote=Lasisha Mishi]poke me when caldari/minmatar pirate faction comes out


[quote=Tiberius NoVegas]

2. The history behind Minmatar and Caldari have a common theme when it comes to self reliance and independence. Both shared a similar history with breaking free from a larger faction that controlled and "oppressed" them and empathy does come into affect with this in account. The Caldari were also making back door deals before they broke away from Gallante, this means they could have traded with Thukkar tribe or another faction prior to the Minimatar rebellion. This is a decent about of history making a strong case for Caldari-Minmatar relationship but there a huge void where that should be.


Similarities nothing beyond that


You also have to remember that Minmatar society puts there Tribe first, similar to how Caldari society has its citizen place there priority in the Megacorporations. These two factions have similar history and social structures, not to mention they share common technology. Being the only two factions that take advantage of missles and sheilds, i dont feel this is a mistake and was the result of Caldari's back door dealings.

I really feel your under estimate the impact of there similarity as the evidence shows they can have a strong connection with each other in social understandings, technological advancements, empathetic stuggle and there beilfs on individuality. This is pretty solid grounds for a relationship to be built on. especially when you consider that some of the other pirate factions have been built on much flimsier concepts.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#9 - 2016-10-19 06:46:48 UTC
Tiberius NoVegas
NovKor Corp.
#10 - 2016-10-20 16:35:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius NoVegas
Found this pretty good write up in Fiction that also supports this concept.

Telegram Sam wrote:
A really interesting thing about the design of the root backstory is there seem to be two cultural axes going on. If you've ever been an AD&D dork (and still one at heart like me), they're like the Lawful vs. Chaotic axis and the Good vs. Evil axis. Here's a little diagram.

On one side of an axis are the traditionalists (Amarr organized religion zealots and Minmatar shamanistic tribesmen/clansmen). On the other side are the modern utilitarianists (Gallente progressives and Caldari corporate capitalists, both agnostic/don't care).

But for the other axis (hierarchical/authoritarian vs. liberal/egalitarian), Gallente and Minmatar are together on one side and Amarr and Caldari are together on the other.

Interesting to note 1: The real hatred wars are between the races that share either traditionalist or modern outlooks. They're kind of like two faces of the same coin.

Interesting 2: By this simple diagram, Gallente and Amarr have no shared outlooks on the world at all. They would both consider each others' ideas so idea as to be alien. Nut jobs doing something or other out there. Same for the more minor cultures, Caldari and Minmatar. The cultural or societal norms are so different, it's hard to imagine that a regular Caldari citizen could put himself in the shoes of a regular Minmatar citizen.

Interesting 3: The hatred wars are between groups that know each other. If it were about differences in cultural outlook, Amarr and Gallente should be against each other. The same if it were about competition for strategic cosmo-supremacy. But instead, the factions fight the people they know, based a good deal on pure vendetta. The story of the backstory got it right, I think.


Of course, altough Minmatar and Caldari don't share anything on those two axes, the do have something in common-- the citizens are both at the poor end of the spectrum, junior partners in an alliance with another faction, and aware that people in those groups generally have it easier than they do. Perhaps that 2-axis diagram needs a 3rd axis.

Anyway, what a brilliant milieu the original backstory writers created. Not like a game backstory, but like a complete fiction world setting.


Source
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2016-10-20 21:10:12 UTC
Tiberius NoVegas wrote:

Khanid Kingdom
...
The Society

Both these groups actually do have flyable ships in game. Society has given us a few event ships: Zephyrs and Gnosis off the top of my head. There is rumour of another one coming too.

Khanid makes a lot of T2 amarr craft. All the black ones I think- Malediction, Sacrilege, and one of the command ships are all done by Khanid. Maybe a few others too.
Tiberius NoVegas
NovKor Corp.
#12 - 2016-10-20 21:26:41 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
Tiberius NoVegas wrote:

Khanid Kingdom
...
The Society

Both these groups actually do have flyable ships in game. Society has given us a few event ships: Zephyrs and Gnosis off the top of my head. There is rumour of another one coming too.

Khanid makes a lot of T2 amarr craft. All the black ones I think- Malediction, Sacrilege, and one of the command ships are all done by Khanid. Maybe a few others too.



oh, that's my mistake then. I thought the Zephyr and Gnosis were Jove for some reason.

saying Khanid makes some of Amarr's T2 ships is like how some of Minmatars ships are made by the Thukkers. Yes these ships could be considered from those sub factions but I also believe that this is more proof to the contrary. that these sub faction in fact have more ship variations then we have currently seen. Similar to how Gallante helped Minmatar make of there ships yet no Minmatar ships look like Gallante ships.

I believe we will see more sub faction ships in the future, it is rather odd how slow development goes for them though. Some of these factions should of already been established as flyable ships (Thukkers or Ammatar come to mind) while other I can understand why we cant fly there ships yet (Jove and concord come to mind).