These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Assault Frigates new role bonus: MWD Ultra
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#1 - 2016-10-17 18:24:05 UTC
Some time ago Interceptors got this nice additional role bonus making them immune to undirected interdiction like bubbles. This turned out to be powerful enough to make them taxis and low-scale raiding forces everywhere in EVE.

Now I don't actually mind them having this powerful effect, but it makes Assault Frigates look like lame ducks in comparison: All they get is being harder to kill than your average frigate plus a bonus to the sig-bloom caused by equipped MWDs. Not very much, which is why many people prefer T3Ds nowadays.

This made me think about how to give Assault Frigates something different without just making them stronger than T3Ds, which would just be the same bad thing we have now, with the roles reversed.

Of course then it dawned on me: Assault Frigates already have a role bonus related to what they're supposed to be doing (assault something)!

The bonus to MWD-sig makes it easier for AFs to hit hard and fast, without immediately getting blown up. The problem is just, for the comparatively small frigates the bonus isn't large enough to compensate for T3Ds existing. It's also a lot less powerful than interceptors being able to evade bubbles with ease.

So my suggestion is two-fold:

1. First, change the bonus to MWD-bloom to 70% (Before you complain, the new AFs will still have 50% larger sigs afterwards, which is significant for a tiny frigate.)

2. Add a special, MWD-related bonus to Assault Frigates: MWD-Immunity against scrambling-effects.

To clarify MWD-Immunity, I'm not suggesting making AFs immune to warp scramblers! Only the MWD, which is normally shut down by warp scrambling, too. If you think about it, there are still a lot of counters: The AF can be neuted out, webs can slow it down and many AFs don't have the cap to let the MWD keep running anyway. Also the MWD still makes an AF's sig 50% larger, even with the stronger role bonus. The AF is still easier to hit and will get more damage applied to, especially from missiles.

This isn't actually overpowered, if you think about how T3Ds still beat Assault Frigates in everything else, like DPS and EHP. This change makes AFs just competitive again without making them just a soulless "shoot better" option.

This change should bring Assault Frigates back without overpowering other ships in turn. Your thoughts?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2016-10-17 18:45:25 UTC
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-10-17 19:39:13 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Or an ab bonus,.


Agreed.

It sounds like you just want them to go faster without as much sig bloom. If the new ship sigs are bigger to begin with, no need to tinker with the MWD bloom, just give them an AB bonus and the sig bloom isn't a concern at all.

The trick of course, is deciding whether you want the AFs to be able to beat the T3Ds, or even stand a chance.

To me the T3D should specifically counter AFs. The whole point of a destroyer is generally to take out frigates. Just like it's traditionally up to a cruiser to take out a destroyer, while the AF can stand a good chance against the cruiser, whose weaponry can't effectively apply to the AFs without webbing shenanigans.

If you simply nerf the T3Ds (which is happening) AFs will again be more usable... how usable will depend on how much the T3Ds get nerfed.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-10-17 19:42:59 UTC
Or now that I think about it, perhaps something that would be even better... change the overheat bonus on the AB for AF.

Instead of +50%, make it give +150%.

They can only overheat for a short time, so it's not an outrageous boost.
Landari Omega
Exit Wound Regional Security
#5 - 2016-10-17 22:00:20 UTC
I too feel like an AB bonus would be the way to go here. I can't even remember the last time I fit an MWD on an Assault Frig anyways.
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#6 - 2016-10-17 22:15:47 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
The other side of "assault" is not just getting to hit range, but actually hitting stuff.

What if you went a little sideways with it in stead, like BLOPS battleships, and gave them a unique way to use their bonused modules in stead.

So a blops BS actually inverts the normal weakness of cloaks. They get faster while cloaked.

What if assault frigs got a scaling tracking/explosion radius/optimal/whatever depending on race bonus when using an AB or MWD? So, basically, they're better at applying damage in situations where they're more at risk of taking it, meaning that you wouldn't necessarily need to give them better bloom bonuses, and that flicking on/off props would be a more tactical decision.

This would make the assault frig basically the "homocidal rage frigate" class of ships. Already fast and maneuverable, but gains greater damage potential the more it makes itself vulnerable to incoming damage.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2016-10-18 01:22:30 UTC
Want to buff AF? Nerf T3D.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2016-10-18 05:36:17 UTC
Old Pervert wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Or an ab bonus,.


Agreed.

It sounds like you just want them to go faster without as much sig bloom. If the new ship sigs are bigger to begin with, no need to tinker with the MWD bloom, just give them an AB bonus and the sig bloom isn't a concern at all.

The trick of course, is deciding whether you want the AFs to be able to beat the T3Ds, or even stand a chance.

To me the T3D should specifically counter AFs. The whole point of a destroyer is generally to take out frigates. Just like it's traditionally up to a cruiser to take out a destroyer, while the AF can stand a good chance against the cruiser, whose weaponry can't effectively apply to the AFs without webbing shenanigans.

If you simply nerf the T3Ds (which is happening) AFs will again be more usable... how usable will depend on how much the T3Ds get nerfed.


No. T3D are meant to provide bonuses to groups. Not counter AF. T2D should barely counter them.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#9 - 2016-10-18 15:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Owen Levanth
13kr1d1 wrote:
Old Pervert wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Or an ab bonus,.


Agreed.

It sounds like you just want them to go faster without as much sig bloom. If the new ship sigs are bigger to begin with, no need to tinker with the MWD bloom, just give them an AB bonus and the sig bloom isn't a concern at all.

The trick of course, is deciding whether you want the AFs to be able to beat the T3Ds, or even stand a chance.

To me the T3D should specifically counter AFs. The whole point of a destroyer is generally to take out frigates. Just like it's traditionally up to a cruiser to take out a destroyer, while the AF can stand a good chance against the cruiser, whose weaponry can't effectively apply to the AFs without webbing shenanigans.

If you simply nerf the T3Ds (which is happening) AFs will again be more usable... how usable will depend on how much the T3Ds get nerfed.


No. T3D are meant to provide bonuses to groups. Not counter AF. T2D should barely counter them.


You're confusing T3-destroyers and the new T2-destroyers, I think. The new T2-destroyers can carry combat links, the T3D can't and so can't provide bonuses to groups.

Edit:

Also thanks for the reactions so far! I also showed my idea on another forum in EVE-related threads and the reaction was even stronger, which lead to me altering my original proposal. I'm writing up my new response later today!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2016-10-18 17:10:31 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:


Also thanks for the reactions so far! I also showed my idea on another forum in EVE-related threads and the reaction was even stronger, which lead to me altering my original proposal. I'm writing up my new response later today!


There is nothing wrong with AF. They are good ships and well balanced with the other frigates, destroyers and cruisers. The problem with AF is the same issue all frigates, destroyers and cruisers have, T3D are way way overpowered. Bring T3D into line and you fix all of th balance issues with the ships in these classes.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#11 - 2016-10-18 18:04:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:


Also thanks for the reactions so far! I also showed my idea on another forum in EVE-related threads and the reaction was even stronger, which lead to me altering my original proposal. I'm writing up my new response later today!


There is nothing wrong with AF. They are good ships and well balanced with the other frigates, destroyers and cruisers. The problem with AF is the same issue all frigates, destroyers and cruisers have, T3D are way way overpowered. Bring T3D into line and you fix all of th balance issues with the ships in these classes.



I agree that T3D need a good wonking. That doesn't make the misplaced mwd bonus OK on AF. It's a bad bonus for the ship class. An AB bonus is just what they need to be complete!
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 - 2016-10-18 19:00:50 UTC
Make them immune to the MWD-shutdown effect of scrams? Hmm..... interesting. Might be worth looking at.

I would not support AB bonus because that is the same bonus as Sanshas pirate ships.

Also, Svipuls need to get blasted by a nerf cannon. Too much damage, too much speed, and resist bonuses to both shields and armor.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Lugh Crow-Slave
#13 - 2016-10-18 20:08:18 UTC
2. Add a special, MWD-related bonus to Assault Frigates: MWD-Immunity against scrambling-effects

god no this is just another one of those special cases that is is going to be exploited to hell


give them an AB speed bonus rather than an mwd bonuses

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2016-10-18 21:46:53 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

give them an AB speed bonus rather than an mwd bonuses


If I recall right the reason they didn't get an AB bonus was because it made AF too powerful in testing.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#15 - 2016-10-18 21:55:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

give them an AB speed bonus rather than an mwd bonuses


If I recall right the reason they didn't get an AB bonus was because it made AF too powerful in testing.


That was the case, so be an emo like me and fly spikes Blink

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#16 - 2016-10-20 13:15:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

give them an AB speed bonus rather than an mwd bonuses


If I recall right the reason they didn't get an AB bonus was because it made AF too powerful in testing.



I've never heard this. Do you have a source (or is this a try out to become a campaign manager)?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#17 - 2016-10-20 16:13:51 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

give them an AB speed bonus rather than an mwd bonuses


If I recall right the reason they didn't get an AB bonus was because it made AF too powerful in testing.



I've never heard this. Do you have a source (or is this a try out to become a campaign manager)?


http://eve-search.com/thread/1179512-0/page/1