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[news] New Capsuleer Cloning Technology Developments Already in Use...
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Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2016-10-16 23:17:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Galente
The misery that capsuleers can inflict on others is mostly a function of those people not having access to clones themselves, whilst the power of being able to clone yourself also creates immeasurable good and progress. Seems to me like the logical conclusion is to try to make it so that nearly everyone can become a capsuleer, and propel humanity forward as quickly as possible.

Either that, or ban the capsule entirely. But this current era of capsuleer elitism needed to end at some point.

CONCORD is too timid and conservative to work on that? SOE did it for them.

And I think Aldrith has a very good point too.. SOE would've been the entity I'd think least likely to do this, and given their recent work, they must know something about a looming threat that we do not. I have noticed, at least in my experiences, that the Drifters we fought started to.. learn. Rapidly. Posing a challenge even to a much larger capsuleer fleet with the proper equipment, where no such challenge had previously existed with the same pilots and ships. I'm sure it was just a sampling size fluke.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2016-10-16 23:20:32 UTC
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
While I am less suspicious about the motives of the SOE, Concord demonstrates again it's primary function is just as a police force to contain capsuleers.

Good.


Who watches the watchmen?

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Arrendis
TK Corp
#43 - 2016-10-17 04:23:29 UTC
Jason Galente wrote:
Who watches the watchmen?


The real question is: who watches whoever watches who watches the watchmen?
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2016-10-17 04:33:24 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Jason Galente wrote:
Who watches the watchmen?


The real question is: who watches whoever watches who watches the watchmen?


Quoting the standard Amarr preacher: 'God'.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#45 - 2016-10-17 08:02:08 UTC
Jesse Edwin Davis
Doomheim
#46 - 2016-10-17 12:17:20 UTC
Good news everyone!

Illegal cloning everywhere - no one cares.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#47 - 2016-10-17 14:32:59 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Jason Galente wrote:
Who watches the watchmen?


The real question is: who watches whoever watches who watches the watchmen?


To either question: Probably not us?
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#48 - 2016-10-18 05:00:12 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Could you perhaps list the top twenty things Concord actually does to earn your approval sir?

Mostly it's what they have chosen to do with their layer of control over pod firmware and pod Neocom software.
1. Outside of Duster-directed orbital strikes, CONCORD is why we can't even target anything on a random planet. If it weren't for this, capsuleers would be bombarding planets left and right.
2. Preventing capsuleers from bombarding planets arbitrarily.
3. Preventing capsuleers from shooting at planets arbitrarily.
4. Preventing capsuleers from crashing their ships into planets.
5. Preventing capsuleers from throwing asteroids at planets.
6. Preventing capsuleers from directly dropping arbitrary objects into atmospheres.
7. Preventing capsuleers from directly introducing arbitrary gases into atmospheres.
8. Preventing capsuleers from shooting at planets.
9. Preventing capsuleers from shooting at planets.
10. Preventing capsuleers from shooting at planets.
11. Preventing capsuleers from destroying deadspace structures except those authorized for destruction by CONCORD or an empire.
12. CONCORD omits most civilian space traffic from our overviews.
13. CONCORD's retribution limits the viable ganking tactics in highsec. If they didn't, more crewpeople would die in highsec and it would be easier to kill larger crews.
14. CONCORD prevents capsuleer-operated capital ships from entering highsec. If they didn't, the scale of highsec war among capsuleers would be larger in terms of lives committed and lives lost.
15. The addition of safety settings to the Neocom software helps protect crews from pilot error.
16. Regulation and mediation of the interstellar economy, which prevents some types of irregularity that would harm baseliner economies.
17. A CONCORD subcommittee keeps the fluid router network standardized. They regulate FTL comms and enforce those regulations so that corporations managing FTL comm services have to provide their clients at least a basic level of security and privacy and have to advertise their services truthfully.
18. DED's tracking of pirate activity in deadspace lets civilian traffic avoid those danger spots more often than not.
19. In order for forces from one empire to invade another empire outside the CEMWPA-designated areas, they have to bypass CONCORD safeguards against exactly that. This bypassing has been accomplished more than once, but it's better than nothing - it may have discouraged other attempts.
20. Although I resent the CEMWPA wars because of the many lives that are thrown away for them, their ongoing existence serves as a pressure release valve for the regular tensions between the empires. Currently it's probably either this or all-out war, and I do believe all-out war would be worse.

I am skeptical of authority, too, but I'm not blind to the possibility of flawed authorities providing good things.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2016-10-18 06:03:34 UTC
However, CONCORD does not recognise ANY pleas of self-defense. Ever. That's my biggest beef with CONCORD.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#50 - 2016-10-18 07:01:19 UTC
Mine is that when they just destroy the ship, the retribution is falling mainly (and lethally) on the crew, who are not responsible for the pilot's actions, while the capsuleer usually only loses what they planned to lose and can afford to lose. CONCORD should at least pod the capsuleer. Better, they should set up a backdoor in the firmware that lets them force the pod to eject from the ship and then destroy the pod while leaving the ship alone (but scrammed) long enough for all crew to escape.
Karina Ivanovich
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2016-10-18 07:11:29 UTC
As I have stated on multiple occasions, CONCORD is an obsolete service that hinders the progress of the Empires more than it Polices the Capsuleer populace. I for one think that CONCORD should only focus on Imperians and leave the Empires alone.

Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2016-10-18 07:27:05 UTC
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
Mine is that when they just destroy the ship, the retribution is falling mainly (and lethally) on the crew, who are not responsible for the pilot's actions, while the capsuleer usually only loses what they planned to lose and can afford to lose. CONCORD should at least pod the capsuleer. Better, they should set up a backdoor in the firmware that lets them force the pod to eject from the ship and then destroy the pod while leaving the ship alone (but scrammed) long enough for all crew to escape.


CONCORD is efficient at punishment but their policies are arse backwards.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Matar Ronin
#53 - 2016-10-18 08:21:48 UTC
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Could you perhaps list the top twenty things Concord actually does to earn your approval sir?

Mostly it's what they have chosen to do with their layer of control over pod firmware and pod Neocom software.
1. Outside of Duster-directed orbital strikes, CONCORD is why we can't even target anything on a random planet. If it weren't for this, capsuleers would be bombarding planets left and right.
2. Preventing capsuleers from bombarding planets arbitrarily.
3. Preventing capsuleers from shooting at planets arbitrarily.
4. Preventing capsuleers from crashing their ships into planets.
5. Preventing capsuleers from throwing asteroids at planets.
6. Preventing capsuleers from directly dropping arbitrary objects into atmospheres.
7. Preventing capsuleers from directly introducing arbitrary gases into atmospheres.
8. Preventing capsuleers from shooting at planets.
9. Preventing capsuleers from shooting at planets.
10. Preventing capsuleers from shooting at planets.
11. Preventing capsuleers from destroying deadspace structures except those authorized for destruction by CONCORD or an empire.
12. CONCORD omits most civilian space traffic from our overviews.
13. CONCORD's retribution limits the viable ganking tactics in highsec. If they didn't, more crewpeople would die in highsec and it would be easier to kill larger crews.
14. CONCORD prevents capsuleer-operated capital ships from entering highsec. If they didn't, the scale of highsec war among capsuleers would be larger in terms of lives committed and lives lost.
15. The addition of safety settings to the Neocom software helps protect crews from pilot error.
16. Regulation and mediation of the interstellar economy, which prevents some types of irregularity that would harm baseliner economies.
17. A CONCORD subcommittee keeps the fluid router network standardized. They regulate FTL comms and enforce those regulations so that corporations managing FTL comm services have to provide their clients at least a basic level of security and privacy and have to advertise their services truthfully.
18. DED's tracking of pirate activity in deadspace lets civilian traffic avoid those danger spots more often than not.
19. In order for forces from one empire to invade another empire outside the CEMWPA-designated areas, they have to bypass CONCORD safeguards against exactly that. This bypassing has been accomplished more than once, but it's better than nothing - it may have discouraged other attempts.
20. Although I resent the CEMWPA wars because of the many lives that are thrown away for them, their ongoing existence serves as a pressure release valve for the regular tensions between the empires. Currently it's probably either this or all-out war, and I do believe all-out war would be worse.

I am skeptical of authority, too, but I'm not blind to the possibility of flawed authorities providing good things.
Clearly even you a fan of Concord could not list twenty things they do. Your list, entertaining as it is, repeated several points, and credited Concord for stopping things we don't have the technology to do.

How would you drag an asteroid to a planet to drop it? You can't and not because of Concord.

How would you gas a planet?
You can't because your ship doesn't fly in atmospheres and you don't have gas guns or bombs, not because of Concord.

Concord doesn't limit "viable" ganks, whatever the heck that means, in high sec they simply show up after the fact to destroy the throw away ship of the ganker, who doesn't care at that point because he's already done the deed. Destroying the gank ship is just economic policy causing the ganker to spend a little more isk to continue their fun.

Lives lost in low sec and null sec are no less important than lives in high sec so your point about Capital ships being banned is strange. Capital ships are banned from high sec to keep the big four from waging hot wars easily. Capsuleers being banned is just a byproduct.

Since you claim you don't see civilian traffic how do you know DED is directing them away from pirate activity? Crediting them for your imagination or hopes does not cut it.

By the way you are flat out wrong on number 12 but I am just kicking you while you are down. We can see civilian traffic on our overview, perhaps you did not know that.

Concord is not the hero organization many people think it is, Concord is here to destroy capsuleers who cross some specific lines. The facts prove that.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2016-10-18 08:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
However, all starships are capable of orbital bombardment, even without a beacon. This has already been recorded in the first Battle for Caldari Prime during the eve of the Gallente-Caldari War and was reported to have happened during the Battle for Pike's Landing in Amamake. By Dreadnought-class vessels at that.

The only reason why we can't go around bombarding planets without receiving a beacon signal from the ground, especially by clone mercenaries, was due to the option being disabled in our starship operating system. This operating system is distributed to all capsuleers via their capsule. In all likelihood this was due to CONCORD regulations.

Also, you didn't address why capsuleers are unable to direct their ships into planets. Again, the OS is programmed to disable that option and to automatically halt the ship from going too close to any gravity well to initiate a crash. Again, CONCORD regulations.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#55 - 2016-10-18 09:36:49 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Clearly even you a fan of Concord could not list twenty things they do. Your list, entertaining as it is, repeated several points

Those points were worth repeating. I will admit that CONCORD doesn't do twenty different things, but some of the things they do are extremely important and extremely beneficial.

"How would you drag an asteroid to a planet to drop it? You can't and not because of Concord."
- This point is fair enough.

"How would you gas a planet?
You can't because your ship doesn't fly in atmospheres and you don't have gas guns or bombs, not because of Concord."
- You could drop containers of gas into the atmosphere designed to unseal at the optimal point in their descent to disperse the gas. #7 was really just a variation of #6.

"Concord doesn't limit "viable" ganks, whatever the heck that means, in high sec they simply show up after the fact to destroy the throw away ship of the ganker, who doesn't care at that point because he's already done the deed. Destroying the gank ship is just economic policy causing the ganker to spend a little more isk to continue their fun."
- Sorry, did that word not translate?
If CONCORD didn't respond to ganks in any way, they would happen a lot more frequently (the fact they're already frequent only makes that a worse outlook) and ganking larger, tankier ships (with larger crews) would be easier.

"Lives lost in low sec and null sec are no less important than lives in high sec"
- This is true. But, the majority of non-criminal civilian population is in highsec.

"Since you claim you don't see civilian traffic how do you know DED is directing them away from pirate activity? Crediting them for your imagination or hopes does not cut it."
- Because I actually talk to baseliners. A lot of baseliners. Regularly.

"We can see civilian traffic on our overview, perhaps you did not know that."
- Some. Not all.

"Concord is here to destroy capsuleers who cross some specific lines. The facts prove that."
- They don't actually destroy the capsuleers themselves, unfortunately.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#56 - 2016-10-18 18:51:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
I will admit that CONCORD doesn't do twenty different things, but some of the things they do are extremely important and extremely beneficial.


Elmund Egivand wrote:
Again, CONCORD regulations.


That's speculation, Elmund. We don't actually know what CONCORD regulations say.

We have no idea what CONCORD does and doesn't do. We don't know what they're legally authorized to do. We don't know what CONCORD regulations actually prohibit and what they've simply 'convinced' people to disable when building pods. We don't even know if CONCORD is actually empowered to issue directives to the Empires that they are required to comply with—who is the actual sovereign power? The Empires, or CONCORD?

We don't know.

We don't know because again, we don't actually have access to the documents that created CONCORD or which govern its operations. We don't even have access to the documents CONCORD issues to govern our interactions. We only have the 'tl;dr' version they see fit to give us.

We cannot evaluate CONCORD, we cannot critque CONCORD, and we cannot trust CONCORD without access to the full text of the Yulai Conventions, and CONCORD's operational directives, both internal, and with regard to Capsuleers.

We simply cannot. Any claims of knowledge beyond 'CONCORD shows up and shoots you if you shoot someone else' are pure guesswork. We must demand the release of those documents. Until they are released, CONCORD is an illegitimate tyranny.
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