Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Capital warfare has become quite big in Eve. Supers are now used as a Iwin button. There really is no effective counter to a super fleet but to bring more supers than the other guy. Sure you can dreadbomb but this has a limited affect at a fairly high cost. And its based on how many cap pilots you have. Furthermore, not everyone wants to be a cap pilot for various reasons. While most people will train all the way up to Battleships.

In short, supers are like playing chess but you have a king and all queens on your side and the enemy still has to use pawns, rooks, bishops,etc. So how do we fix this problem? Well how about we fix it and give BS more of a role again in null warfare....

The t3 battleship( AKA: Tactical battleships):

* These would be set up like T3 destroyers in function.

* Hull material cost of 400-600 mil isk. You dont want them as expensive as dreads like the t2 BS are.

* Base stats based loosely around T2 battleship stats.

* Bonuses:

> Racial Tactical Battleship( per level):
- 10% to weapon optimal and falloff
- 5% reduction to weapon activation cost
- 5% bonus to weapon and drone damage
- 5% reduction in module heat damage

> Misc:
- +3 to warp core strength
- 50% bonus to max warp speed

> Defense Mode:
- 99% immunity to doomsday damage( all other doomsday effects apply)
- 50% reduction in damage taken from capital class weapons and fighters( sub capital weapons and drones apply normal damage)

> Offensive mode( sharpshooter):
- 50% bonus to scan resolution, scan strength, and lock range
- 25% bonus to damage against capital class ships, 50% bonus to damage against super capital class ships.

> Propulsion Mode:
- 25% bonus to agility
- 50% reduction in micro jump drive activation and reactivation delay


Other notes:
* Standard t2 fleet fit would put out around 1000 DPS for a max level character.
* Standard T2 fleet fit would tank like a T2 Battleship except against capitals in defense mode.
* Against sub capitals, this would be like using a T2 battleship.

...Why? It does battleship damage for pirate battleship cost. just use a pirate battleship.

Or a talos, if you want to do more damage for much lower cost.


Can you explain what you mean by 'tanks like a t2 battleship', given that a properly set up vargur can tank something insane like 30k dps, but a widow can tank a fraction of that? Same for the rest of the stats, what do you even mean by t2 battleship stats? (And how do you figure a 1b t2bs is the same price as a 3b dread?)



Who do you think is going to field these things in the kind of numbers that would be required for them to be any use at all, when they could simply use a quarter of that number of dreadnaughts for the same effect?

Why do they have a warp core strength bonus?



Is this thread posted about two years too late or something?

I should of clarified base damage would be without the ship bonuses with all level 5 skills. With 1-2 damage modes against sub caps, about 1200 dps. Against caps in offensive mode it would be higher.

The tank similarity is an empty hull, no skills, no mods comparison. basically the ship stats before you fit it and apply skills to it.Look up the info on ship in game off market and then the stats of that ship. THAT is what im talking about for comparison. It would be on par with a t2 battleship hull. How much tank you can get out of a ship is highly dependent on how you fit it and your skills. So why would i bother giving the fitted stats of the ship when it can vary so much from person to person?

If you were to keep cost in line with tech level , it would normally be t1, t2, t3. Given the price of t2 BS a t3 BS would be the price of a carrier/dread, so people would just use a carrier or dread instead. So instead of using that, the t3 should be about the price of a pirate faction BS or a bit higher.


Well lets see...

* Against sub caps they will perform as well as t2 ( or a standard fleet fit ) pirate faction.
* Against capitals they have a few obvious bonus over dreads and carriers... but since its not that obivious to you ill point it out:
- 99% DD immunity( i was considering 99.9% but thought it might be a tad to much)
- 50% reduction in damage taken from all other capital based weapons.
- Cheaper to replace than a dread
- This is for alliances that do not want to, or cannot field a bunch of caps. AKA: Not goonswarm. Its an alternative to bringing caps N+1, Dreadbombs and just plain " didnt want that space anyway...i guess"
- Can also be used in conjunction with caps as a support fleet against a superior capital force.

For the same reasons other ships get warp core bonuses. More specifically the idea is to cut down on randomly pointing. You are either going to have to use Hics, bubbles, or multi point. Adds a bit of survivability .


The idea behind these ships are to provide sub cap pilots with an option that can participate in a cap fight against capitals without being DDed to death and which have increased survivability against capitals compared to other ships. They are also meant to be used to jump around the field, during a capital fight, Allowing them to use kiting tactics to a degree. This is also were the warp core bonus comes in, to make it harder for that prober or inty to lock one down while spamming "XXXXXXXX" in chat for a warp to.

Basically you have a kiting BS that can tank capitals better than any other subcap.

All of the above for reasons against, plus questions about why scan res bonus? Cap ships are huge. Agility bonus is also useless with the new webs and support fighters. Mjd bonuses are likewise useless considering fighters also have them. Better to as for a Sig reduction, remote repair bonuses, smart bomb bonuses and higher single armor shield and hull resists

Weapon activation bonus is also tailored to 2/4 races, range and falloff seem to be more tailored to anti-cruiser and t3 destroyer roles.

As to cost, why should it be as cheap as a pirate/faction bs cost. Why should it cost less than a than a t2 battleship considering it has so much more of an out-of-role use. The range bonus gives plus mid also give it an uncatchable advantage against its only real counter: battleships.

T3s are already cancer, they all need rebalancing and we certainly don't need more.

How? damage calcs don't factor in ship class. Damage of higher ship class weapons is mitigated from stats of the weapon and ammo. Amongst other factors.


take one rokh (no tracking bonus), shoot either stationary frigate, or one with no traversal (ie. flying in nice straight line at you)....blap You get very high damage output. BS guns don't go oh its a frigate, let me cut the damage back.

BS blapping dreads say hi as well. High track fit, support throws some paint and web and pop goes the bs. Applied to this idea...we don't really need this being cheaper.





Missiles a bit more complicated. Enter the years phoenix had issues where it hitting even other capitals was not all that good. Hell, insert joke it had issues hitting stationary stuff like pos stuff as well.


And if a cap killer...why the fast lock? Its smaller stuff that has you wait. Big stuff locks up fast as is. The fun moments you have as you target 5 ships from smallest to largest. The largest ones if targeted last can lock long before that little inty you targeted first.

So it does the same damage as an attack battlecruiser, tanks a completely unspecified amount (Tanks like a t2 battleship doesn't mean any more when you repeat it than when you first posted it. A panther does not tank like a vargur.), is immune to AoE DDs, resistant to HAWs and fighters, has a warp core strength bonus for no apparent reason (if caps are on field and you're in null, everything is bubbled.)

You also contradict yourself by first saying a standard T2 fit will do 1k dps and tank like a t2 bs, then by saying both of those numbers are for a naked hull.

And if you are trying to bomb a cap fleet with these, you will not only need ten times the dread numbers, but it'll actually cost you a similar amount, if not more in hulls compared with a regular dreadbomb once you take insurance into consideration.

And you'll still die to a bomber wing.



Have you ever actually been in a cap fight? Or a nullsec fight of any description? Or are these things designed entirely around the idea of attacking a handful of supercarriers in lowsec?

I was talking about a fleet but now that you have given more details I can properly see what you want.

No. These ships will be just as horrible as the other T3s if I am reading your idea correctly.

I like the concept (a T2 BS, with bigass guns on it).. kind of like a Naga/Oracle/Tornado/Talos, but bigger. The concept makes sense to me.

Simplified greatly, however, I would simply say that it would be great to have a BS with a T2 resist profile and XL weapon bonuses (fitting requirements, and to ensure that it doesn't stray from its role, bonuses to XL-sized weapons only).

For example, a Raven hull with:
-- 5% bonus to XL torpedo ROF
-- 10% bonus to XL torpedo velocity
-- 95% reduced PG requirements for XL Torpedo Launchers
-- 95% reduced CPU requirements for XL Torpedo Launchers

The specific bonuses are 100% tweakable. I just picked the existing Raven torpedo bonuses and put XL in front, and chose 95% fitting reduction for the sake of choosing a number. I also am not saying how many launcher hardpoints it should have... that's a tweaking thing.

Maintaining Rock/Paper/Scissors:
1) Battleships are quite vulnerable to subcaps and caps
These battleships would cost less (in my mind at least) and more could be fielded compared to capitals, however they have far less tank, making them easier to pop. Just the same, a dozen of these on the field could and should quickly devastate capitals. Without logistical support, you'd expect a few of these to pop as well, making it more or less isk-balanced. Unless they're facing dreads fitted for other capitals or something.

2) These would have zero utility outside of shooting really big things
XL torpedos have a 10km explosion radius. Shooting even a painted battleship with a MWD is absolutely pointless. You could use them against POS and Citadels, which is a good thing, because it will speed up POS bashing (at least while POSes exist in the game). Even with 2 rigor mods, you're still looking at like a 7ish km explosion radius.

3) Capitals maintain their advantages of having substantially more tank
Why would you use a:
a) Carrier
Simple, you can force project out to insane distances with your fighters. You can take these battleships out, for example.
b) Dread
Simple... you have tank. You have siege. An anti-subcap dread should die to a superior number of these, but not without inflicting some losses on the BS. An anti-cap dread will do vastly superior damage to other caps.
c) Supers
....yea.

4) Just like their battlecruiser counterparts, they have comparatively weak tanks for the ships they're intended to counter
They're meant to fight capitals, hence the T2 resist profile. Relative to the capitals they're fighting however, their tank is paper-thin

How a battleship with guns large enought to occupy 10 or 15 % of his deck would be ridiculous ?Especially for projectile weaponry ?
Did you forget how a real battleship looks like?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battleship

I always found guns in Eve to be ridiculousy undersized in the first place ,so i wouldn t see any trouble if battleships would looks as heavy and massive as reallife one especially their weaponry.

But to OP your idea isnt wrong , an Attack BS would make sense especially with capital turrets ,in the same way the ABC work.

I think doomsday weapons should be used the capitals only.

Also, I don't think these XL battleships would be used against fleets that have no capitals. However they could become especially useful against citadels in hi-sec.