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Crime & Punishment

 
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Diplomatic Relations Between Solarian Federation and Pyrocraft

Author
Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#1 - 2016-10-16 01:44:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Binchiette
The following message was sent in response to a dispute which occurred between the Solarian Federation (a 3 year old corporation with 57 members) and Pyrocraft (a 3 month old corporation with 6 members).

The following is an email sent by myself. Which relates to events occurring in the Neziel. I cannot post chat logs, or kill feeds, due to the forum rules. But I will instead allow readers to do their own research. I would however add that the person in question was rather angry, abusive and threatening - and was essentially threatening our corporations very existence. Because he objected to having the kill right made publicly available.

Quote:
Hello _____,

I am a member of Pyrocraft Corporation have the assigned responsibility of conducting defence operations to protect our interests. I have been following recent events and monitoring your interactions with our corporation members. In particular, _______ __________, who's ship I believe you ganked and destroyed, unprovoked, while mining in Neziel. With a total estimated loss of 30 Million ISK.


I understand, from a copy of your communications, that you did this to teach our corporation member a, “life lesson”, in EVE online. As, ______’s ship was not properly fitted for a lowsec mining operation, he was not (as you said) aligned to a warp-able object. While we do our best to train less experienced Corp members, you must understand that new players will make these mistakes from time to time. I also noted that you generously donated 10 Million ISK after this.


I also understand that a kill right was made available against you – and this was in response to your illegal aggression. This kill right was subsequently activated and I believe you lost an Armageddon class Battleship. With a total cost of 278 Million ISK, in Neziel.


Now I should carefully point out that kill rights are awarded on the basis of having received illegal aggression. This is a natural game mechanic and there is nothing inherently wrong about activating a kill right – and this is not mitigated by the 10 Million ISK donated (which was only one third of ______'s actual losses). The activation of a kill right was a natural consequence of your actions. As a seasoned player, I would have expected that you would understand this. I also noted that Neziel (the system where your Armageddon was destroyed) is a low sec system – where that aggression is not only likely, but, should be expected. Frankly, only an idiot would take a 278 Million ship into a low sec system knowing that they had a kill right against then and were not prepared to lose the ship. If you are prepared to advocate the, “all’s fair in love and war”, line then you truly have no business dictating to other players how they should assign their kill rights.


You have no recourse with ______'s, or with our corporation, and frankly your own losses are your own fault. So as someone who is so intent on teaching others, “life lessons”, in EVE Online I feel that I must teach you one as well. Don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose – and don’t kill our mining ships if you want to avoid getting kill rights activated against you.


Now since writing the above. I have been informed by our CEO that the 500 Million ISK which you demanded was paid. Frankly, I don’t think very much of you – and I need to make clear that this payment was against my own judgement. Particularly considering that figure was more than your actual losses. I also need to point out that any other kill rights _______ has against your Corp members are still publicly available. I would have made the counter proposal that ______'s withdraw public access to those kill rights in return for a lesser ISK figure. Perhaps something closer to your actual losses.

Regards,


Marcus


Please discuss. I'd like to know if this sort of thing happens very often, and potentially how this could have been handled differently. Although this was probably may not have been clear in the context, the above 500 Million ISK was a ransom demand to avoid Wardec.

Personally, I don't think very much of someone who is prepared to gank other players; but will then cry when he looses a Battleship. I also do seriously hope that there is no 'honourable' objections to victims making their kill rights publicly available among the EVE community. As I do intend to make these and any future kill rights, obtained by our corporation members, publicly available.
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#2 - 2016-10-16 03:43:20 UTC
Grow a pair and fight back.

You never know, you just might like it...
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#3 - 2016-10-16 03:57:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Jerr
Quote:
Although this was probably may not have been clear in the context, the above 500 Million ISK was a ransom demand to avoid Wardec.

Paying 500M to avoid a wardec is money thrown in the trash and a weak move from your CEO, it's the same thing as keeping out the game during the wardec period.

In addition to Morgan Agrivar, if you don't want pew, you can always continue your activities by using a scout, something easy since it's not a one-man corp, keep aware of the local and the overview, align, don't autopilot, spy the other corp, harass them, use ECMs (including drones) to **** them off, using Covops to **** them off even more and so on.
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-10-16 04:12:15 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:


Please discuss. I'd like to know if this sort of thing happens very often, and potentially how this could have been handled differently. Although this was probably may not have been clear in the context, the above 500 Million ISK was a ransom demand to avoid Wardec.

Personally, I don't think very much of someone who is prepared to gank other players; but will then cry when he looses a Battleship. I also do seriously hope that there is no 'honourable' objections to victims making their kill rights publicly available among the EVE community. As I do intend to make these and any future kill rights, obtained by our corporation members, publicly available.


They only requested that because they thought that they could milk you out of isk. And you paid it.

Hes in lowsec, in a battleship, so a killright is the least of his worries, and he clearly doesn't care about the killright either. I don't think you understand how Lowsec mechanics work. People shoot each other frequently there. Killrights in lowsec are like killrights on gankers in hisec, it doesn't matter because people can and are allowed to aggress the one with the killrights with little to no consequences.

Whenever I fight in lowsec, I don't look around for killrights. Never have, never will, because theres no need to.

He cries because he thinks itll get him isk. Which it did. So good for him on milking the cows till they go dry.
Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#5 - 2016-10-16 08:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Binchiette
Thank you for your comments. I was not consulted about the ransom payment being made and this was a breakdown between myself and my CEO. There was a 'difference of opinion' between myself and the CEO. A conversation was had, and hopefully she now has a much better understanding on how to deal with this in future.

While I am not afraid of fighting - and was rather looking to this fight. It must also be said that skill counts for a lot in this game, and skill = training time. The simple fact is that someone piloting a tech 1 ship, which tech 1 fittings and only 3 months worth of skill points cannot achieve the same raw combat effectiveness as a larger fleet. Especially one consisting of tech II fittings, faction warships, and several years worth of skill points on their characters. This is not a fight which we could have won by conventional means.

Solonius Rex wrote:
He cries because he thinks itll get him isk. Which it did. So good for him on milking the cows till they go dry.


... And yes he did milk the cow dry. Well and truly. It's probably been some time since you first started out. But for a new player 500 Million ISK and represents a huge investment in game time. So I very much doubt that this persons success will be long lived.

Basically, there are a number of people in this corp who are about ready to totally **** him up. This will be very personal.
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#6 - 2016-10-16 12:02:04 UTC
Paying a ransom gets you no respect here in Eve Online.

Shoving that ransom down his throat does...
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#7 - 2016-10-16 12:53:29 UTC
Question: will you write us lengthy amusing correspondence like this if we shoot you ?
Saeger1737
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2016-10-16 14:10:22 UTC
I'll come fight for yea for free if I get lengthy write ups like this!!!

MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#9 - 2016-10-16 15:04:08 UTC
So you say you pay ransoms to avoid wardecs hey...

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#10 - 2016-10-16 15:16:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Binchiette
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Question: will you write us lengthy amusing correspondence like this if we shoot you ?


LOL no. I've been blown out of the water several times before, and I have no problem with this. I've also destroyed others, and have no problem with this as well. I might be new, but, I do understand how this game is played.

I do understand that I'm likely to be shot on sight, and I don't take it personally. I do however have a problem with players who are happy to do this; but then will cry foul when they get their expensive ship blown up, on account of a public kill right - and in turn blame the person who made the kill right available. IMO if someone's prepared to play the pirate, then, good for them; but they should be prepared to accept everything that goes with it. Failure to do this demonstrates a lack of coherency. I have no respect for this sort of person.

The fact of the matter is that a 30 Million ship was traded for the destruction of a much more expensive one. The stupid fool was butt hurt because be was outplayed by a noob. I might have actually laughed at what happened, had it not been for our CEO caving to their ridiculous demands. Not only because of that, but, also because we have peace - and in my current state of mind that is the last thing I want :/

Sorry, for the rant.
Saeger1737
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2016-10-16 15:27:31 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Question: will you write us lengthy amusing correspondence like this if we shoot you ?


LOL no. I've been blown out of the water several times before, and I have no problem with this. I've also destroyed others, and have no problem with this as well. I might be new, but, I do understand how this game is played.

I do understand that I'm likely to be shot on sight, and I don't take it personally. I do however have a problem with players who are happy to do this; but then will cry foul when they get their expensive ship blown up, on account of a public kill right - and in turn blame the person who made the kill right available. IMO if someone's prepared to play the pirated, then, good for them; but they should be prepared to accept everything that goes with it. Failure to do this demonstrates a lack of coherency. I have no respect for this sort of person.

The fact of the matter is that a 30 Million ship was traded for the destruction of a much more expensive one. The stupid fool was butt hurt because be was outplayed by a noob. I might have actually laughed at what happened, had it not been for our CEO caving to their ridiculous demands. Not only because of that, but, also because we have peace - and in my current state of mind that is the last thing I want :/

If you want peace take it by force only way you'll be sure it lasts!

MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!

Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#12 - 2016-10-18 07:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Binchiette
Saeger1737 wrote:
I'll come fight for yea for free if I get lengthy write ups like this!!!


Missed this: But yea... Mate, if you come and fight for me I'll write you a bloody good eulogy Lol
Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#13 - 2016-10-18 14:50:41 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
I do understand that I'm likely to be shot on sight, and I don't take it personally. I do however have a problem with players who are happy to do this; but then will cry foul when they get their expensive ship blown up, on account of a public kill right - and in turn blame the person who made the kill right available.


Read what's being written. If it was blown up in lowsec as you say, it wasn't because of the killright.
General Shogun
Free Candy Get In The Van
Free Candy Get In The Van Alliance
#14 - 2016-10-18 15:34:19 UTC  |  Edited by: General Shogun
1) You come to a merc forum and let it be known that your corp pays not to be wardecced.
2) You publically post internal communications.
3 ) You repeatedly state disagreement with your CEO in a forum setting.Shocked

Simply, wow.
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-10-19 01:45:06 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
Thank you for your comments. I was not consulted about the ransom payment being made and this was a breakdown between myself and my CEO. There was a 'difference of opinion' between myself and the CEO. A conversation was had, and hopefully she now has a much better understanding on how to deal with this in future.

While I am not afraid of fighting - and was rather looking to this fight. It must also be said that skill counts for a lot in this game, and skill = training time. The simple fact is that someone piloting a tech 1 ship, which tech 1 fittings and only 3 months worth of skill points cannot achieve the same raw combat effectiveness as a larger fleet. Especially one consisting of tech II fittings, faction warships, and several years worth of skill points on their characters. This is not a fight which we could have won by conventional means.

Solonius Rex wrote:
He cries because he thinks itll get him isk. Which it did. So good for him on milking the cows till they go dry.


... And yes he did milk the cow dry. Well and truly. It's probably been some time since you first started out. But for a new player 500 Million ISK and represents a huge investment in game time. So I very much doubt that this persons success will be long lived.

Basically, there are a number of people in this corp who are about ready to totally **** him up. This will be very personal.


First off, no. Skill does not equal training time. Seriously, ask that question in the New Citizens QnA section of the forums, and multiple people will give you long forum posts as to how you are wrong.

Secondly, if you cannot afford 500 mill, then you really shouldn't be running a corporation. The fact that making a new corp takes only 1 mill and change is what I hate about the system, it should cost atleast 300-400 mill tbh, but that's a discussion for another day.

Thirdly, the fact that you don't know this about your CEO makes me sad for you.
Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#16 - 2016-10-19 04:38:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Binchiette
General Shogun wrote:
1) You come to a merc forum and let it be known that your corp pays not to be wardecced.
2) You publically post internal communications.
3 ) You repeatedly state disagreement with your CEO in a forum setting.Shocked

Simply, wow.


1) We don't.
2) The communications posted were external
3) Fair point. Though this was done as a courtesy to those who answered the original question.

Areen Sassel wrote:
Read what's being written. If it was blown up in lowsec as you say, it wasn't because of the killright.


4) That he might have been less than honest doesn't change my opinion.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#17 - 2016-10-21 17:31:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
General Shogun wrote:
1) You come to a merc forum and let it be known that your corp pays not to be wardecced.

1) We don't.
No? Your original post suggests otherwise

From that post
Quote:
I have been informed by our CEO that the 500 Million ISK which you demanded was paid.
What was this payment for if not a ransom.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2016-10-21 21:46:14 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
General Shogun wrote:
1) You come to a merc forum and let it be known that your corp pays not to be wardecced.
2) You publically post internal communications.
3 ) You repeatedly state disagreement with your CEO in a forum setting.Shocked

Simply, wow.


1) We don't.
2) The communications posted were external
3) Fair point. Though this was done as a courtesy to those who answered the original question.

Areen Sassel wrote:
Read what's being written. If it was blown up in lowsec as you say, it wasn't because of the killright.


4) That he might have been less than honest doesn't change my opinion.


1). You kinda did.
2). You shouldnt air out your dirty laundry in public.
3). Ditto above.
4). Honesty in Eve is like the gold at the end of the rainbow. It might exist, but dont expect to reach it.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#19 - 2016-10-22 00:04:25 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
So you say you pay ransoms to avoid wardecs hey...



Why, hello there, OP.

Bear

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

Bait'er De'Outlier
Trans-Aerospace Industries
#20 - 2016-10-22 00:51:30 UTC
wardec avoidance for 500,000,000isk? I'll not wardec you for only 499,999,999isk...
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