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Remove immunity to cargo scanners from blockade runners

Author
The Justice
Meep Beep Logistics
Meep Beep Empire
#1 - 2016-10-15 02:29:28 UTC
Immunity for cargo scanners is a worthless and dangerous bonus. People are wasting their time gambling if a ship is worth to gank or not without knowing before shooting, while the hauler pilot has to make sure to use insta bookmarks to avoid being ganked. The bonus is simply good for nothing. I've heard gambling isnt very popular these days, so maybe have a look at this shipclass? I've both ganked and been ganked myself, and this change is not ment to keep people from doing so. Just make it so we got a choise instead of painting a big red target on all blockade runners in hisec.
Might want to switch it to bubble immunity or something, but that might be a little too OP(?).

Thoughts?Idea
Christopher Mabata
Stribog Kybernaut Subclade
Stribog Clade
#2 - 2016-10-15 02:41:11 UTC
Whatever else may come of this thread and the cargohold anti-scan bonus aside, we definitely don't need more interdiction nullified ships, especially ones that can haul around 10,000m3

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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#3 - 2016-10-15 02:58:48 UTC
Not even sure why BR even got this bonus to be honest. It made sense on orca long ago. Big slow and heavy. BR though....unless others fly theirs differently than I do its not even on gate/in undock area long enough to scan.


Agility spec fit (rigs and lows) mixed with cloak. Time for lock, wait for scan, okay now engage? Not really giving that out...you may see that second or 2 between gate jump cloak dropping and fit cloak turned on and poof gone.
The Justice
Meep Beep Logistics
Meep Beep Empire
#4 - 2016-10-15 09:56:28 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Whatever else may come of this thread and the cargohold anti-scan bonus aside, we definitely don't need more interdiction nullified ships, especially ones that can haul around 10,000m3


Yah Im thinking the same thing. Unscannable bonus doesnt really have to be switched out with anything either as its an role bonus which Im pretty sure noone needs. Today these are not worth to use in hisec. They work fine in both lowsec and 0,0.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2016-10-15 10:14:05 UTC
While I agree nothing should be impossible to scan my main gripe is putting this bonus on a ship that spends its entire time in space cloaked and thus, unlockable in the first place.
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#6 - 2016-10-15 10:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
At one point, the bonus would have made sense if CCP had made it immune to NPC scanning also.

However, now that boosters are legal in highsec, it doesn't even make sense to assist drug running.

No need to replace it with any other bonus, just no need to keep it really.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#7 - 2016-10-15 13:15:06 UTC
Let me recap.
Cannot be scanned because cloaked most of the time.
Never in one place long enough to be scanned.

One has to ask why are we even discussing a bonus that is simply worthless in your opinion?

If you cannot scan because cloaked then the bonus has no affect on the situation so why does it bother you that these ships have it?

If they are never in one place long enough to be scanned, again why does it bother you that these ships have it?

You all think it is worthless, I disagree. Traffic control delay's and just plain bad luck on the Jita gates have put me at risk on more than a few occasions and there is no doubt that immunity to cargo scanning has been a part of why I have, at least to this point been able to avoid being ganked at those gates. There are after all a lot of gankers that will not roll the dice on a ship when they know nothing about what may or may not be in your cargo hold.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2016-10-15 14:26:43 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Let me recap.
Cannot be scanned because cloaked most of the time.
Never in one place long enough to be scanned.

One has to ask why are we even discussing a bonus that is simply worthless in your opinion?

If you cannot scan because cloaked then the bonus has no affect on the situation so why does it bother you that these ships have it?

If they are never in one place long enough to be scanned, again why does it bother you that these ships have it?

You all think it is worthless, I disagree. Traffic control delay's and just plain bad luck on the Jita gates have put me at risk on more than a few occasions and there is no doubt that immunity to cargo scanning has been a part of why I have, at least to this point been able to avoid being ganked at those gates. There are after all a lot of gankers that will not roll the dice on a ship when they know nothing about what may or may not be in your cargo hold.


TBH getting a scan on these ships is so hard that you should be rewarded with a scan result if you do manage to lock it. Equally flying these things so badly should come with the punishment of being scannable.
The Justice
Meep Beep Logistics
Meep Beep Empire
#9 - 2016-10-15 15:11:58 UTC  |  Edited by: The Justice
Also making these scannable opens the use for them without being cloaked as a fast and small hauler (with implants these can travel quite fast with an decent cargohold). There are simply no good reasons to keep the role bonus
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-10-15 16:39:01 UTC
No never we already had that discussion during blockade runner rebalance .And there is no valid reasons, to remove that bonus .
Life is a chocolate box and you never know what s in it .
Dimitrios Bekas
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2016-10-15 17:43:05 UTC
To be honest, maybe CCP was drunk ...and forgot to put it on the DEEP SPACE TRANSPORTs instead they gave it to the Blockade Runners. I mean, it really makes Zero Sense to have such a Bonus on a Blockade Runner, and it would make 100% Sense to put it on the DSTs.

i would support that change

Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-10-15 18:36:15 UTC
Dimitrios Bekas wrote:
To be honest, maybe CCP was drunk ...and forgot to put it on the DEEP SPACE TRANSPORTs instead they gave it to the Blockade Runners. I mean, it really makes Zero Sense to have such a Bonus on a Blockade Runner, and it would make 100% Sense to put it on the DSTs.

i would support that change


Sry i m confuse i believed this bonus to apply a big red dot on every blockade runner, and now you tell us you want to switch this bonus on an ever more expensive transport with less evasive capability ?

-Lets face it ,high sec gankers want this bonus to be removed ,because they cant predict if they are going to make profit from instablapping that ship or not.I'm not surprised, high sec gankers always want winning lottery ticket,too bad for them CCP has been wise enought to prevent this from happening.

-The bonus work as intended ,there is no reason to fix something that work perfectly fine.

Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#13 - 2016-10-15 19:11:27 UTC
I spend most of my time in game flying Blockade Runners. In highsec you don't need a propulsion module and can easily fit a passive T2 tank in the 20K+ EHP range with 13K M3 of cargo. Sacrifice a bit of cargo space for a DCU and you're up to 26K EHP. I've survives Alpha shots from Tornados when something prevents me from cloaking immediately - with remote sensor boosters they can lock faster than a cargo fit BR can warp but they only get one shot. I wouldn't change my game if the cargo could be scanned but I kind of like it the way it is - a fun way to collect kill rights!
Piugattuk
Lone Star Warriors
Evictus.
#14 - 2016-10-15 23:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
So now that others have chimed in here is something from an industrial player who has to haul stuff around, you people probably don't do the kind of jumping around many industrial or buyers, traders do, for me it's not unusual for at least 50+ jumps a day, from Gallente to Amarr, from Amarr to Minmatar and back to Caldari space only to jump back in again and do it again as buying sprees take a lot of checking regional markets.

Here's what you are missing, there are a lot of gate campers even in high sec waiting, watching, scanning every ship that comes through, a blockade runner is designed around getting through, it is NOT impossible to catch one but again people interested in ganking want easy street, the fact that it is immune to cargo scans make it the only Pollo (chicken), to have this ability in the same class of ships, why must every ship be available for scans...who are you? Caldari custom inspectors?

If your world revolves around ganking there should be some bonused ship that can be used to run past you and you have to decide...is it worth it?

I've seen the high sec camps at work, I've seen DST and other industrial ships ruins sitting at the gates from a fresh gank, just because YOU don't get around EVE doesn't mean others don't, if your livelihood depends on 10000 m3 worth of cargo you are a failure at ganking and being a criminal and should do something else if you can't take the risk necessary in order to throw the dice and gank a blockade runner....the name, BLOCKADE RUNNER!

every other in class industrial ship is scannable, so 99% of the in class ships are not immune, how flipping easy do you want it?

And unlike a DST it is not bonused for warp core strength, sheesh.
The Justice
Meep Beep Logistics
Meep Beep Empire
#15 - 2016-10-15 23:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: The Justice
Piugattuk wrote:
So now that others have chimed in here is something from an industrial player who has to haul stuff around, you people probably don't do the kind of jumping around many industrial or buyers, traders do, for me it's not unusual for at least 50+ jumps a day, from Gallente to Amarr, from Amarr to Minmatar and back to Caldari space only to jump back in again and do it again as buying sprees take a lot of checking regional markets.

Here's what you are missing, there are a lot of gate campers even in high sec waiting, watching, scanning every ship that comes through, a blockade runner is designed around getting through, it is NOT impossible to catch one but again people interested in ganking want easy street, the fact that it is immune to cargo scans make it the only Pollo (chicken), to have this ability in the same class of ships, why must every ship be available for scans...who are you? Caldari custom inspectors?

If your world revolves around ganking there should be some bonused ship that can be used to run past you and you have to decide...is it worth it?

I've seen the high sec camps at work, I've seen DST and other industrial ships ruins sitting at the gates from a fresh gank, just because YOU don't get around EVE doesn't mean others don't, if your livelihood depends on 10000 m3 worth of cargo you are a failure at ganking and being a criminal and should do something else if you can't take the risk necessary in order to throw the dice and gank a blockade runner....the name, BLOCKADE RUNNER!

every other in class industrial ship is scannable, so 99% of the in class ships are not immune, how flipping easy do you want it?

And unlike a DST it is not bonused for warp core strength, sheesh.


Question though; are you travelling cloaked? Lets say you are, then why the need of the bonus? And if not cloak; how have you never lost a blockade runner to a ganker? One quick look at zkill shows random gankings happening every single day. I get the whole insta-dock/undock bookmarks-stay alive-dont be bad-argument. Then again it leads to the same question; why the bonus?
Piugattuk
Lone Star Warriors
Evictus.
#16 - 2016-10-16 00:17:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
The Justice wrote:
[quote=Piugattuk]So now that others have chimed in here is something from an industrial player who has to haul stuff around, you people probably don't do the kind of jumping around many industrial or buyers, traders do, for me it's not unusual for at least 50+ jumps a day, from Gallente to Amarr, from Amarr to Minmatar and back to Caldari space only to jump back in again and do it again as buying sprees take a lot of checking regional markets.

Here's what you are missing, there are a lot of gate campers even in high sec waiting, watching, scanning every ship that comes through, a blockade runner is designed around getting through, it is NOT impossible to catch one but again people interested in ganking want easy street, the fact that it is immune to cargo scans make it the only Pollo (chicken), to have this ability in the same class of ships, why must every ship be available for scans...who are you? Caldari custom inspectors?

If your world revolves around ganking there should be some bonused ship that can be used to run past you and you have to decide...is it worth it?

I've seen the high sec camps at work, I've seen DST and other industrial ships ruins sitting at the gates from a fresh gank, just because YOU don't get around EVE doesn't mean others don't, if your livelihood depends on 10000 m3 worth of cargo you are a failure at ganking and being a criminal and should do something else if you can't take the risk necessary in order to throw the dice and gank a blockade runner....the name, BLOCKADE RUNNER!

every other in class industrial ship is scannable, so 99% of the in class ships are not immune, how flipping easy do you want it?

And unlike a DST it is not bonused for warp core strength, sheesh.


Question though; are you travelling cloaked? Lets say you are, then why the need of the bonus? And if not cloak; how have you never lost a blockade runner to a ganker? One quick look at zkill shows random gankings happening every single day. I get the whole insta-dock/undock bookmarks-stay alive-dont be bad-argument. Then again it leads to the same question; why the bonus?[/quote

Because it should be the one deterrent for ganking players, should I or shouldn't I, I definitely see many more DST hulls from fresh ganks then I have ever seen Blockade runners, and I would say the blockade runner is working as intended.

DST have warp core bonuses yet are ganked often, but DST also have a fleet hanger which is why people do crazy stuff like haul around shiny stuff in the FH, the fleet hanger in my case is 55,000 m3 but wouldn't ever carry anything high value in there because it is too slow to get the hell on into warp even fully fitted to get the hell on, I use the align, microwarp, and cloak trick and still am not satisfied with the time it takes to move it's ass, but it is what it is, the only ship worth using is the blockade runner, but if fitted for moving ass its cargo is nearly half and is not immune to warp core scramming, this is the thing that is it's designed for, should they bother to gank you, is it worth it, I don't use it at all to go to Jita knowing that they may use it for a pinata I use regular ships, I want them to see what I have isn't worth their time, all other situations around the verse...they have to guess.
Bad Pennyy
Abraxas Rising
#17 - 2016-10-16 08:21:19 UTC
The Justice wrote:
Immunity for cargo scanners is a worthless and dangerous bonus.

Thoughts?Idea


I love having this bonus. But, I'd trade it for the ability to fit a spectrum breaker to this class and DSTs. But some low volume hauls are very expensive hauls and the immunity offsets the overall lack of EHP etc.

But complaining about the risk/uncertainty in making targeting decisions seems... unEVEish. Given the current status quo, esp in high sec., it doesn't seem sporting that gankers need even more info / help?
The Justice
Meep Beep Logistics
Meep Beep Empire
#18 - 2016-10-16 10:13:27 UTC
Bad Pennyy wrote:
The Justice wrote:
Immunity for cargo scanners is a worthless and dangerous bonus.

Thoughts?Idea


I love having this bonus. But, I'd trade it for the ability to fit a spectrum breaker to this class and DSTs. But some low volume hauls are very expensive hauls and the immunity offsets the overall lack of EHP etc.

But complaining about the risk/uncertainty in making targeting decisions seems... unEVEish. Given the current status quo, esp in high sec., it doesn't seem sporting that gankers need even more info / help?



My point is that I think most people will cloak and use bookmarks if the cargo is expensive. Why the bonus? And if flying empty/afk/not cloaked, the chances for getting randomly ganked is quite high which often results in loss for both ganker and hauler. Im not trying to get rid of ganking (or boosting it) nor make hisec more safe/dangerous. I just want the role bonus gone. Those who have posted in this thread so far about the bonus being fine has also hinted to being cloaked all the time while using the hauler which again makes no use of it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2016-10-16 12:20:51 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Nya Kittenheart wrote:
Dimitrios Bekas wrote:
To be honest, maybe CCP was drunk ...and forgot to put it on the DEEP SPACE TRANSPORTs instead they gave it to the Blockade Runners. I mean, it really makes Zero Sense to have such a Bonus on a Blockade Runner, and it would make 100% Sense to put it on the DSTs.

i would support that change


Sry i m confuse i believed this bonus to apply a big red dot on every blockade runner, and now you tell us you want to switch this bonus on an ever more expensive transport with less evasive capability ?

-Lets face it ,high sec gankers want this bonus to be removed ,because they cant predict if they are going to make profit from instablapping that ship or not.I'm not surprised, high sec gankers always want winning lottery ticket,too bad for them CCP has been wise enought to prevent this from happening.

-The bonus work as intended ,there is no reason to fix something that work perfectly fine.



A well flown blockade runner is impossible to stop in highsec so removing this bonus will result in no change in the numbers getting ganked. Frankly it should never be impossible to scan the cargo of any ship because all that happens is people running with empty holds end up getting randomly attacked.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Gurlstas Associates
#20 - 2016-10-16 12:34:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nya Kittenheart wrote:
Dimitrios Bekas wrote:
To be honest, maybe CCP was drunk ...and forgot to put it on the DEEP SPACE TRANSPORTs instead they gave it to the Blockade Runners. I mean, it really makes Zero Sense to have such a Bonus on a Blockade Runner, and it would make 100% Sense to put it on the DSTs.

i would support that change


Sry i m confuse i believed this bonus to apply a big red dot on every blockade runner, and now you tell us you want to switch this bonus on an ever more expensive transport with less evasive capability ?

-Lets face it ,high sec gankers want this bonus to be removed ,because they cant predict if they are going to make profit from instablapping that ship or not.I'm not surprised, high sec gankers always want winning lottery ticket,too bad for them CCP has been wise enought to prevent this from happening.

-The bonus work as intended ,there is no reason to fix something that work perfectly fine.



A well flown blockade runner is impossible to stop in highsec so removing this bonus will result in no change in the numbers getting ganked. Frankly it should never be impossible to scan the cargo of any ship because all that happens is people running with empty holds end up getting randomly attacked.

You make it sound like randomly getting ganked is a bad thing.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

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