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Excessive Griefing

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Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#61 - 2016-10-13 17:44:48 UTC
Nero Jove wrote:
Just curious if a player doing nothing but continually harassing players in a system all day long would be considered griefing by CCP? It was a peaceful system until this guy showed up . First came his 10 toon ice mining fleet. Then came his griefer. He bumps and bumps and bumps. every spawn - every single day. He never misses one. The obvious answer is just leave the system, but that feels like such a cop out. Ideas of how to deal with this are appreciated.


Switch to the ice mining ore t2 frigate.
Use a 10 mn Afterburner.
Orbit the ice at 2500m or so.
Mine away.
Chances are, you will be too fast to be bumped.
Alessienne Ellecon
Doomheim
#62 - 2016-10-14 07:25:23 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Regan Rotineque wrote:
That or hire someone to grief him back, 10 toon ice mining fleet, sounds like CODE should investigate....

We are not your personal police. Also the OP has no mining permit. Maybe he should look for another Highsec elite-PvP content creator if there is even one left.


Because gods forbid you lot ever do anything useful, right?

Rush Crosix wrote:
If it is becoming too much of a problem, then I would suggest taking CODE up on their offer. They might be willing to camp him out for a high price. Just make sure you can financially back it up.


I would suggest, as others have in this thread, that the OP acquaint himself with the various social mechanics of EVE and hire some mercenaries to take care of the bumper (who is probably an affiliate of CODE anyway). Learn to play the game instead of sitting on the forums and whining.

"CONCORD are the space cops. If you attack someone in a high-security solar system, CONCORD will commit police brutality." - Encyclopedia Dramatica

If EVE is a PvP game, then Anti-Ganking is emergent gameplay.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#63 - 2016-10-14 07:48:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Regan Rotineque wrote:
That or hire someone to grief him back, 10 toon ice mining fleet, sounds like CODE should investigate....

We are not your personal police. Also the OP has no mining permit. Maybe he should look for another Highsec elite-PvP content creator if there is even one left.


Because gods forbid you lot ever do anything useful, right?[/quote]

I consider punishing the imprudent useful.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#64 - 2016-10-14 08:14:28 UTC
So your only options are:
  • Bump or suicide gank him
  • Hire someone to bump/gank him
  • Politely ask him to stop
  • Give up and leave


Safety sure is inconvenient.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2016-10-14 08:16:09 UTC
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
So your only options are:
  • Bump or suicide gank him
  • Hire someone to bump/gank him
  • Politely ask him to stop
  • Give up and leave


Safety sure is inconvenient.



Safety?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Gokigenyou
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2016-10-16 13:17:44 UTC
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#67 - 2016-10-16 14:33:13 UTC
You can win the ISK war in game while losing the ISK war on the Killboard.

It's simple. If the guy has 1b and you have 10b, and let's say for every one of his ships you suicide gank you lose double the ISK he loses.

So he may think you are a fool as you are losing more ISK than him per gank.

But if you do it enough times, he will have 0 ISK while you have 8b ISK left in game. He can't call you a fool anymore then. :)

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
Alana Packham
Corporation N
#68 - 2016-10-16 14:34:25 UTC
This is happening a lot lately, huge fleets on people's doorsteps are nothing new but appearing at every spawn, in npc corps, running their own bump and gank fleets that is.

Most of this has been said but :

1. you have 3 toon slots on each account, make a mining alt or 2 and keep them in a quieter system. It can be useful if you want more iskies as you can switch between spawn's (any dedicated ice miner should have at least 1 alt miner on the same account).

2. if you move make a low isk, disposable bumper and bump the **** out of him. If he is running a fleet he is either jet canning or feeding orca, shoot his cans, bump his orca, nudge his hauler, you'll have spare time in between your new spawns. he won't leave but you can have fun, teach the kids, they'll enjoy it.

3. code are a useful tool just don't let them know it (oops its out now), go to uedama and shout that there is a hulk fleet in that system, you won't see them for dust. you're mining in your new system, who cares if they camp the place for a month? failing that look up the local system killmails (dotlan is good for that) to find the local ganker and bait them into thinking you run the big fleet.

4. never hire anyone to do rubbish like this, they'll just follow you and bait you into paying over and over again, you'll be classed as an easy mark. even if the perp is an a pc corp hi sec wars are so pointless the only thing paying a merc corp will do is cost you isk. I used to take work from people, hire merc's through another alt and so far I have seen 1 kill in however many years. (why Alana is now a forum toon, started to feel like I was robbing people)

5a. You never said your own setup, is this bloke there in other peoples retaliation against you? Do you have 20 accounts and his gank fleet is there to get rid of you?

or

5b. If you are flying a solo, tanked skiff and you are awake there is not a lot that a solo ganker can do within game rules to kill you. He can't log in and move 10 cats to you quick enough that you cant warp away, if he is chasing you around the system he isn't mining, someone has to pay for all those accounts...

pretty poinless points I know.

I'm extremely surprised you've been mining for 2 years and never moved before, please give code your address, you need more training.

p.s. I might be retired but I still know a bit, I won't give clean alt names, gank names or even the miner names but take a tour around Ignebaener on American tz's and see what there is too see.

p.p.s. this isn't directed at code, really, honestly.

Its not that the Dev's have never been hi-sec miners, more that if they ever admitted it they'd be designing new pattern's in the dust as they sweep the car park. Would you employ someone who spends all day mining in hi?
Arcelian
0nus
#69 - 2016-10-17 16:54:59 UTC
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
Nero Jove wrote:
Just curious if a player doing nothing but continually harassing players in a system all day long would be considered griefing by CCP? It was a peaceful system until this guy showed up . First came his 10 toon ice mining fleet. Then came his griefer. He bumps and bumps and bumps. every spawn - every single day. He never misses one. The obvious answer is just leave the system, but that feels like such a cop out. Ideas of how to deal with this are appreciated.

Gank his fleet.
My interpretation of the Holy Code is that it is our collective responsibility to protect His fields from wanton greed and bot-aspirancy. His agents are as monks. They spread the good news, act in His name, collect alms, and make pilgrimages to the First Field. They are reliable, but sadly not ever present. As His faithful, we should ensure that blasphemies of the kind you describe do not go unanswered. Take up the catalyst and purge these transgressors from your midst.


Back to reality for a moment.
This guy probably has all of his alts in NPC corp to keep them safe from wardecs.
After the November update, combined with the many incremental nerfs to "content creation" this guy's ice fleet will be very nearly invulnerable. He will be safe from all but the most dedicated of suicide gank attacks.
Now, he is altering the game immensely for the normal residents of this system, and there is not a thing they will be able to do about it.

This is why NPC corps need to be vulnerable to wardecs.


What? Why?

I read the entirety of the November release updates, didn't see anything that would cause a mining fleet to be "invulnerable" unless I missed something important.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#70 - 2016-10-18 16:47:26 UTC
Alessienne Ellecon wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Regan Rotineque wrote:
That or hire someone to grief him back, 10 toon ice mining fleet, sounds like CODE should investigate....

We are not your personal police. Also the OP has no mining permit. Maybe he should look for another Highsec elite-PvP content creator if there is even one left.


Because gods forbid you lot ever do anything useful, right?

You think you are doing something useful? This is a video game. You mine pixel rocks to produce pixel spaceships. If you think that is useful I recommend a serious dose of anti-matter, that usually does the trick.

If it ever feels like I do something useful and not just for fun in this game I will quit and play another game to have fun again. Seriously, this is pure entertainment and not my daily chore.

Evil RatKid
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#71 - 2016-10-18 17:20:20 UTC
Arcelian wrote:

What? Why?

I read the entirety of the November release updates, didn't see anything that would cause a mining fleet to be "invulnerable" unless I missed something important.

Yes, you missed the words 'nearly' and 'all but the most dedicated'

Evil RatKid
Francis Raven
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#72 - 2016-10-18 17:40:39 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
By CCPs outline, you would need to make an attempt to move away from the area, not just to other belts in the same system, nor just a system or two away.

If you move away and he/she follows, then that might be considered harassment.

Sounds from your explanation that it's a guy competing with you for resources. I doubt, based on what CCP has previously said, that it would be considered harassment, but a petition would be the only way to know.

Unless it's an issue that falls under rookie griefing:

https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing

As for how to deal, get together with others and bump his fleet out of mining range. Wardec him. Gank his fleet. Hire mercs. Do unto others as they have done unto you, but x10. It's the Eve way.


Well said!

ExDominion | Nullsec Corporation | Website | Forums | Established Nov. 2015 |

Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#73 - 2016-10-18 17:41:08 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Arcelian wrote:

What? Why?

I read the entirety of the November release updates, didn't see anything that would cause a mining fleet to be "invulnerable" unless I missed something important.

Yes, you missed the words 'nearly' and 'all but the most dedicated'


But yet Will it be 'nearly' or rather now easier to grief?

Currently, the boosting orca, and let's face it if the guy has 10 ice miners chances are, there is an orca boosting, is located at a POS, citadel, or is on station. You can't see who is boosting but he is there. There may also be a command ship that is also boosting.

Come November, those ships will have to be on grid and in close proximity to the mining vessels. Just start learning to bump the orca. That action will most likely frustrate the miner as he will have his ships set to orbit or keep the orca at range. Every bump will disturb the fleet. And it is far easier to hit an orca with a bump ship than an exhumed or mining barge.

Additionally, there are no changed planned that impact the mining vessels so killing them will be no different.

So how will November make it harder? If anything, it will be easier to harass this person out of the belt with bumping tactics.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#74 - 2016-10-18 17:52:01 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Arcelian wrote:

What? Why?

I read the entirety of the November release updates, didn't see anything that would cause a mining fleet to be "invulnerable" unless I missed something important.

Yes, you missed the words 'nearly' and 'all but the most dedicated'


But yet Will it be 'nearly' or rather now easier to grief?

Currently, the boosting orca, and let's face it if the guy has 10 ice miners chances are, there is an orca boosting, is located at a POS, citadel, or is on station. You can't see who is boosting but he is there. There may also be a command ship that is also boosting.

Come November, those ships will have to be on grid and in close proximity to the mining vessels. Just start learning to bump the orca. That action will most likely frustrate the miner as he will have his ships set to orbit or keep the orca at range. Every bump will disturb the fleet. And it is far easier to hit an orca with a bump ship than an exhumed or mining barge.

Additionally, there are no changed planned that impact the mining vessels so killing them will be no different.

So how will November make it harder? If anything, it will be easier to harass this person out of the belt with bumping tactics.

How effectively does a catalyst bump an Orca?

Doesn't the whole 'just bump the orca' assumption also assume that current gank characters can all just jump in a Machariel with perfect skills for the standard bump fit?

From what I see of a lot of gank characters from their killboards, catalyst is all they fly.

I'm sure there will be an increase in bumping, but not as simple as a switch of ships.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#75 - 2016-10-18 17:56:24 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Arcelian wrote:

What? Why?

I read the entirety of the November release updates, didn't see anything that would cause a mining fleet to be "invulnerable" unless I missed something important.

Yes, you missed the words 'nearly' and 'all but the most dedicated'


But yet Will it be 'nearly' or rather now easier to grief?

Currently, the boosting orca, and let's face it if the guy has 10 ice miners chances are, there is an orca boosting, is located at a POS, citadel, or is on station. You can't see who is boosting but he is there. There may also be a command ship that is also boosting.

Come November, those ships will have to be on grid and in close proximity to the mining vessels. Just start learning to bump the orca. That action will most likely frustrate the miner as he will have his ships set to orbit or keep the orca at range. Every bump will disturb the fleet. And it is far easier to hit an orca with a bump ship than an exhumed or mining barge.

Additionally, there are no changed planned that impact the mining vessels so killing them will be no different.

So how will November make it harder? If anything, it will be easier to harass this person out of the belt with bumping tactics.


Come November you don't need the orca for boosts.
Jenna Kyriel
Doomheim
#76 - 2016-10-18 20:15:47 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Nero Jove wrote:
All good advice. Just hard to pick up and leave when you call a system home for two years. Fighting options in high security when he is an NPC corp are pretty limited.

Say thanks to all the highsec carebears who cried so hard year after year so that CCP removed all options and made it possible to create practically ungankable mining fleets.


Are you COMPLAINING that EHP's are TO HIGH?

Silly, what are you, a CAREBEAR? Adapt and overcome, it's a numbers-game, one your little alliance of null-alt gankers should figure out right away and deal with.

Unless ofc you would rather go to the forums and whine to people that high-sec dwellers have made is TO HARD for you to suicide-gank them on a regular basis. If that's the case, I don't think you will be getting much sympathy, being some nameless alt in CODE after all.

@ OP - as others have made clear, you have two options:

Give in and move out.

Or...

Find some way to resist. I'd go for the suicide-strike his fleet option myself, but if you can't or won't do that, I am VERY SURE there are others who will gladly accept your ISK to get rid of his ships for you.

Another player has decided to contest your stuff. It's is not CCP's job to ensure fairness, that you get a fair piece of the riches - it's YOUR JOB to ensure that.

Or don't. I suspect it's all the same to the guy with 10 miner bots.
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#77 - 2016-10-18 20:48:07 UTC
Jenna Kyriel wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Nero Jove wrote:
All good advice. Just hard to pick up and leave when you call a system home for two years. Fighting options in high security when he is an NPC corp are pretty limited.

Say thanks to all the highsec carebears who cried so hard year after year so that CCP removed all options and made it possible to create practically ungankable mining fleets.


Are you COMPLAINING that EHP's are TO HIGH?

Silly, what are you, a CAREBEAR? Adapt and overcome, it's a numbers-game, one your little alliance of null-alt gankers should figure out right away and deal with.

Unless ofc you would rather go to the forums and whine to people that high-sec dwellers have made is TO HARD for you to suicide-gank them on a regular basis. If that's the case, I don't think you will be getting much sympathy, being some nameless alt in CODE after all.


Lol the visceral hatred is palpable with this one.




*Please learn to use the words to, too, and two before posting on the internet, thank you.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#78 - 2016-10-18 21:35:10 UTC
Jenna Kyriel wrote:

Are you COMPLAINING that EHP's are TO HIGH?

Silly, what are you, a CAREBEAR? Adapt and overcome, it's a numbers-game, one your little alliance of null-alt gankers should figure out right away and deal with.

Unless ofc you would rather go to the forums and whine to people that high-sec dwellers have made is TO HARD for you to suicide-gank them on a regular basis. If that's the case, I don't think you will be getting much sympathy, being some nameless alt in CODE after all.

Calm down miner. I never said I could not gank miners. Check my killboard, I obviously adapted. I just pointed out that the OP can not gank the bumper because all the whining locked him and all the people who can't even adapt to the simplest change out of the mechanic.

Project some more tears.

The buffs to EHP have actually quite an interesting effect. If the game forces you to adapt you may as well improve and not just compensate while your at it. So today I can gank a bigger range of ships than before the last EHP buff. There are already plans in the drawer for the next time, but I am just too lazy to implement them now. I am sure the next ganking nerf is just around the corner and will do the trick.

It is never too late to get a permit friend.

Evil RatKid
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#79 - 2016-10-18 21:50:55 UTC
Jenna Kyriel wrote:

Another player has decided to contest your stuff. It's is not CCP's job to ensure fairness, that you get a fair piece of the riches - it's YOUR JOB to ensure that.



Would have been nice for CCP to follow this line of thought rather than spend 5 years nerfing pvp into the ground in highsec to keep miners safe.
Alana Packham
Corporation N
#80 - 2016-10-18 22:18:12 UTC
hmmm, Ima Wreckyou, Oppold area, code, multibox (possibly), ganker, spam dueller. (might be wrong maybe its 1 person and the others are another but who cares, its code, there is definitely a code multiboxer as part of that team).

Won't try to gank a tank even with the alts (or possible friend), so one of them spams duel requests until someone says yes.

If no one does they sit there and moan about people not duelling because they have no 'honor' (can't even spell the word properly, bloody foreigners).

Not even worth replying to, but if he gets on your nerves fly over to Minmater, hang around the Oppold area and after the ganks he (or the possible friend) sends an alt to clean up in an Orca, its called resuply truck or something similar.

KILL THAT ORCA

gank the gank lol

and please remember code only exist because some people still don't realise that skiffs are the only ships that miners should use in hi.

Its not that the Dev's have never been hi-sec miners, more that if they ever admitted it they'd be designing new pattern's in the dust as they sweep the car park. Would you employ someone who spends all day mining in hi?