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[Blackops Bonus Rework] - Make useful outside of blob drop
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Dhuras
The Classy Gentlemans Corporation
Moist.
#1 - 2016-10-13 04:08:22 UTC
Right now black ops seem to be used primarily for bridging a bomber fleet to a target, while it stays behind, or dropping a giant blob of other BOBS against targets that reasonably can't fight back. The only time It generally sees combat is when it is used in a situation where it has an overwhelming advantage, and won't be lost. (To ward off everyone posting killmails of ratting widows, I did say GENERALLY)

It seems like this could be from several issues


  • Bonuses are not consistent in theme across the line. One has EWAR, the rest are damage focused
  • The EWAR bonus on the widow is no stronger than its cruiser sized counterparts, combined with no maneuverability due to it being a battleship and no cloaking while warping, and without a good tank to make up for that, a recon is a better and cheaper alternative every time.
  • The other BOBS are more damage focused, but you won't get much more damage out of them than a comparable T1 Battleship, and for a fraction of the price.
  • They have a bonus to velocity while cloaked, which is effectively useless. At best it lets you cloak instawarp.


So basically the only thing the BOBS line seems to have over T1 or their recon counterparts is the ability to bridge and jump, which is nice of course, but it relegates the ship to being either a glorified chauffeur for other cloakies that will actually go into combat, or to be blobbed onto inferior gangs that couldn't fight back no matter what.

How do we make BOBS more useable? Lets get a discussion going. I'm just going to throw out some of my own thoughts, some better than others to get discussion started. Throw out your own, I'm curious to see what people think.


  • Amp up cloak velocity bonus (say to 100% per level)? Or even allow prop mod activation while cloaked to allow for fast re positioning while cloaked?
  • probably shouldn't give them covops cloak, would be OP as ****, unless hardcore gimped somehow.
  • If they all get ewar bonuses it could step on the toes of the recon line and crowd out the ewar role. Perhaps only a single ewar bonus to keep them from becoming both tankier and better at ewar than recons?
  • Dscan immunity?
  • On that note, projected Dscan immunity to nearby fleetmates? Same functionality as the upcoming links changes.
  • Mini Ewar superweapons similar to burst projectors on supers? Would probably be bullshit OP.



Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#2 - 2016-10-13 08:36:13 UTC
pro tip - black ops are not for fun fights, they are for dropping on unsuspecting victims

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#3 - 2016-10-13 09:00:00 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
pro tip - black ops are not for fun fights, they are for dropping on unsuspecting victims


yep


OP why the dscan immunity for the actual BS? Cloak up. No decloak delay bonus says hi. Cloak till you want to be seen, decloak, starts your things up, whatever those things may be.
Dhuras
The Classy Gentlemans Corporation
Moist.
#4 - 2016-10-13 13:48:01 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
pro tip - black ops are not for fun fights, they are for dropping on unsuspecting victims


yep


OP why the dscan immunity for the actual BS? Cloak up. No decloak delay bonus says hi. Cloak till you want to be seen, decloak, starts your things up, whatever those things may be.


The only way you can surprise someone with cloaking in a BOBS is to sit cloaked camping somewhere, you have no mobility without warping cloaked. So there is no moving around to find someone, you have to just sit on a gate, belt, wormhole, whatever until someone happens along. Not exactly engaging gameplay.

Dscan immunity would give it more of a chance to be somewhat mobile without being immediately found out.
YeuxVerts Belle
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-10-13 14:29:54 UTC
Dhuras wrote:
The only way you can surprise someone with cloaking in a BOBS is to sit cloaked camping somewhere, you have no mobility without warping cloaked.


You have better mobility than most ships with a black ops, you have a jump drive. And that jump drive can connect to a cyno lit by a barely decloaked ship.

At first glance, the blackops look like expensive taxis. But if you've heard of blackops gangs, you know how powerful they are. It's basically a strong T1 battleship with a formidable ganking ability in nullsec and lowsec. That one of them is an ewar ship is icing on the cake.

The above message presents my opinions on the topic at hand. If there is a conflict between my views and reality, consider reality to be correct until proven otherwise.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#6 - 2016-10-13 15:42:27 UTC
Dhuras wrote:
Zan Shiro wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
pro tip - black ops are not for fun fights, they are for dropping on unsuspecting victims


yep


OP why the dscan immunity for the actual BS? Cloak up. No decloak delay bonus says hi. Cloak till you want to be seen, decloak, starts your things up, whatever those things may be.


The only way you can surprise someone with cloaking in a BOBS is to sit cloaked camping somewhere, you have no mobility without warping cloaked. So there is no moving around to find someone, you have to just sit on a gate, belt, wormhole, whatever until someone happens along. Not exactly engaging gameplay.

Dscan immunity would give it more of a chance to be somewhat mobile without being immediately found out.


you've never flown blops have you?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#7 - 2016-10-13 18:12:07 UTC
Dhuras wrote:
Zan Shiro wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
pro tip - black ops are not for fun fights, they are for dropping on unsuspecting victims


yep


OP why the dscan immunity for the actual BS? Cloak up. No decloak delay bonus says hi. Cloak till you want to be seen, decloak, starts your things up, whatever those things may be.


The only way you can surprise someone with cloaking in a BOBS is to sit cloaked camping somewhere, you have no mobility without warping cloaked. So there is no moving around to find someone, you have to just sit on a gate, belt, wormhole, whatever until someone happens along. Not exactly engaging gameplay.

Dscan immunity would give it more of a chance to be somewhat mobile without being immediately found out.

http://i.imgur.com/iWKad22.jpg

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-10-13 18:41:19 UTC
Eve is a multiplayer game.

Find someone to hunt for you with a cov cyno. Find 2-20 other people to jump in with BOBS with you. Pop the ratting carrier, loot, cloak. Want more DPS? Bridge in some bombers and then follow them.

They have one major advantage over a T1 BS... they have jump drives.

You take a fleet of 2-20 T1 BS out, it's gonna get popped with almost certainty. BOBS on the other hand have a nice way to get in and out without taking gates. No gate camps to deal with. And they only jump in on fights they will win.

Sure a T1 BS costs far less. But it's not an insignificant sum for many players. With the BOBS, you have a lower chance to lose a greater sum of isk. Same risk, just different dynamics.

While I would LOVE to see BOBS made more useful, I'm training a Widow right now so that I can do hit-and-run tactics. It looks deliciously fun.

Perhaps some form of synergy between BOBS and recons would make more sense. They're already the same type of thing, just different sized hulls. Hmm... that gives me a decent idea. I won't hijack your thread though.
Dhuras
The Classy Gentlemans Corporation
Moist.
#9 - 2016-10-13 19:20:08 UTC
Old Pervert wrote:
Eve is a multiplayer game.

Find someone to hunt for you with a cov cyno. Find 2-20 other people to jump in with BOBS with you. Pop the ratting carrier, loot, cloak. Want more DPS? Bridge in some bombers and then follow them.

They have one major advantage over a T1 BS... they have jump drives.

You take a fleet of 2-20 T1 BS out, it's gonna get popped with almost certainty. BOBS on the other hand have a nice way to get in and out without taking gates. No gate camps to deal with. And they only jump in on fights they will win.

Sure a T1 BS costs far less. But it's not an insignificant sum for many players. With the BOBS, you have a lower chance to lose a greater sum of isk. Same risk, just different dynamics.

While I would LOVE to see BOBS made more useful, I'm training a Widow right now so that I can do hit-and-run tactics. It looks deliciously fun.

Perhaps some form of synergy between BOBS and recons would make more sense. They're already the same type of thing, just different sized hulls. Hmm... that gives me a decent idea. I won't hijack your thread though.


Please do hijack, I made this thread to hear ideas, I'm curious to hear.

Instead so far its merely complaints of "why don't you like current gameplay" instead of any discussion. Well posted goys
Lugh Crow-Slave
#10 - 2016-10-14 05:24:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Let's give a shop class that has to be one of the most balanced against one another bonuses for situations outside their intended use....



The only thing I got from your idea is that you have no clue how to fly a blop so rather than learn you want to change them to fit you

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble