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Apologies for my ignorance this is the first time i post...what's the OP(ening...sorted, sorry but i couldn't find the way to delete the post)

19 pages of tears and no one asks the most important question:

What time are we showing up in Delve to write "We're Sorry" in SMA corpses?

With original post the first post in this very thread is meant.

CCP Falcon added this:

I edited out some of the sarcastic bits because I want to focus on that "PC" question.

I have two friends that I'm having some success in convincing to play this game as Alphas.

Friend 1 lives about 2,000 miles away from me and won't be an issue. However, friend 2 is my roommate. Now, he has a gaming laptop so it's a "second PC", but it would be connected to the internet through the same router my PC is.

The three of us play Minecraft and Team Fortress 2 together extensively. We've been friends since the Xbox 360 days. We play together as a team. And honestly, we only really play those games when each other are online to play with. We do want to play other games together, and they have some bit of interest in EvE. But both of these friends are hesitant to commit to paying for MMO gametime (roommate did the trial thing about four years ago, didn't take to the game, said he needed more game time to really get a feel for it). They are mostly okay with playing with me, even with the Alpha limitations. And if they enjoy the game enough to subscribe, all the better! I just have to get them into the game long enough for them to make up their minds one way or the other.

This is my dilemma. My roommate would be connected to EvE through the same router, playing with me almost exclusively (at least until he decides if he likes the game or not, and either subs or stops playing). I know how that would look on CCP's end as the security team checks for EULA violations regarding Alpha connections, and yes I'm also keenly aware of how this scenario sounds to the other people on the forums (oh yeah, I'm sure, your "friend").

So, looking at the EULA, I'm thinking that I'll have to tell my roommate not to bother. I'll play with my friend across the country, but I happen to really like playing EvE and I'm not at all interested in getting my account banned because my roommate plays with me with an Alpha clone.

I would appreciate if there were some explicit "yes or no" about, in general, other physical and distinct computers connected on the same network or router or whatever (I'm not really a tech guy, can you tell?).

If the answer from CCP is "Sorry, we appreciate your situation, but the answer is no", then okay. I'm not going to stomp my feet, get all pissy, claim they're losing potential money, or anything ludicrous like that. I'll just play other games with these guys and not this one. Not a big deal. If the answer is, "Yes, a different physical machine connected to the same router is okay", then I'll talk with my roommate about getting him an Alpha clone when the time comes. But I do want an assurance that doing that won't get me banned down the line because a different DM or GM or DEV saw the situation differently.

I laughed a lot harder at this than I probably should have,

So, let me get this straight. A mechanic that YOU allowed, CCP, was misused by a few people. You took all the bankers money and everything (including the banker that started two days ago). They now have nothing. They did nothing wrong. Way to completely screw a LOT of people. Good job. WTF is happening at CCP? Who decided this was OK? There goes a lot of subs, well done, hope you're happy with ruining a significant amount of player-generated content. Ban the RMTers? Absolutely, 100%. **** everyone else that were doing nothing wrong? Absolutely not. This is insane, of all the stupid stuff you have pulled, this is top of the list.

If you didn't want this going on, you shouldn't have allowed gambling sites in the first place. That is on you. For the record, I'm not stating that I think isk gambling was good or bad, but you allowed it. Now you completely ruin life for a bunch of bankers and others who follow the rules.

And how about you figure out how to clearly write a damn EULA.

"B. Selling Items and Objects

You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. You may not use, transfer or assign any game assets for games of chance operated by third parties. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game."

#1. It should read "B. Selling Items and Objects for Real Money".

#2. Because item #1 is not in place, the line "You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction." literally states that you cannot sell anything, even in game. Meaning using the market is a bannable offense.

#3. "You may not use, transfer or assign any game assets for games of chance operated by third parties." This is fine.

#4. "The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game." So no in-game, inner corp or alliance raffles or anything of the sort. Buying off the market is against the EULA.

Maybe if you would have instituted these features into the game like players have asked for YEARS then there wouldn't have been an issue, but you blatantly ignored these requests. Standup job guys, so smart. Bye-bye hundreds, if not thousands, of subs. This literally worries the hell out of me, with all of the people you just pissed off I have to wonder what the repercussions will be in game as CCP loses many thousands of dollars in lost subs.

But no ban on scamming.....so that's right in line with everything.

Overall what a great job you did on this one. Unbelievable that you didn't learn from your past mistakes how incredibly STUPID this would be if handled it wrong, and you really screwed this one up. Huge knee jerk reaction, letting a couple bad apples ruin the bunch instead of just removing the bad apples. This kind of BS of punishing EVERYBODY is moronic. You don't ban an entire alliance because two people are botting in the mining belts. So......this heavy handedness is so over the top, I have lost all faith and respect for your company.

Thanks a lot,
7 year vet who is now pissed he's supported you

Are you being deliberately stupid.* They violated the EULA. In the case of IWI they were engaged in RMT. In the case of Eve Casino several violations of the third party EULA.

You are just being deliberately obtuse.

*Note that really isn't a question...you are being deliberately stupid. Gambling for virtual currencies is not a problem, when they engage in RMT that is a problem. Now after all these problems, and given other issues with game based gambling and actual...you know things like lawsuits and government agencies getting involved CCP pulled the plug.

In short, pull you head out before you suffocate.

I have made my views clear that this is just sh!t management/handling of the situation. Gambling/RMT/benefits for the game, I accept that people have views I can't agree on perhaps, but these are as legitimate opinions as mine is as a long time player of EVE.

But I still do feel that, even after all this talk, the way CCP handled it is totally out of line and some of the worst community ruining action I have seen from CCP, or any other online games I have ever played.

I will not try to convince others who see it differently. You are entitled to your views and I'm entitlled to mine.

Thank you everyone at IWI for the amazing experience that I gained from tje site and thank you for the community that trancended politics and took the wins and losses in good spirit, and welcomed me to the channel when I finally got out of my shell to openly communicate with the fellow players at IWI.

What I have gained from all this was worth more than any amount of ISK I won or lost.

I feel for you hard working staff and committed players that his has hurt is and we have all been negatively affected by CCP screw up.

As you know me, I don't hand out free stuff. But I shall endeavour to help people who've been involved in the whole IWI experience without having done RMT. Within my capacity I will try to help you get back on your feet in game, although the amoint of ISK removed from this whole thing is million times more than I can cover. It may just be a nice eve mail with comforting words, or a quick light hearted convo.

It's been an awesome rollercoaster ride and I shall not forget.

Take care everyone and I wish you all good luck, as always.


Toobo

This thread would've been so much easier if CCP had mentioned their reasons.

It could have even been as simple as "we're concerned about possible legal trouble" but instead we're left to figure that out on our own.

If I were a betting man I would put my money on 'never'

m